Planning for additonal living space in back garden

Planning for additonal living space in back garden

Postby energy_audit » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:36 pm

I am considering putting an additional ‘living space’ in my back garden – in this space here - >
proposed cabin position. It would be a timber structure similar to a shomera.

View from front – which I plan to screen off from view.

I have no neighbours as such to the south side (looking inward from south ) – borders a piece of greenspace belonging to the estate. Also no houses to the back (overlooking west/back ) – a stream beyond the boundary. The landowner is struggling to get planning permission – and if this does happen, its unlikely to be developed right up against my back garden because of the nature of the site.

View looking in towards neighbours back garden from the intended position of the cabin => neighbouring property



As I know that back of house development is frowned upon, I don’t want to apply for planning permission on the basis of the intended purpose of the cabin ie. Living space. The structure wont be far off the 25m2 planning exempt development (approx. 28m2 is envisaged) were it intended for any other purpose other than living in it.


Q1. Would I be right in thinking its unlikely that a planning officer would come knocking on the door unless someone brought it to his attention?

Q2. It only really could bother one person – the adjoining neighbours. From the photo above, would you be likely to be upset if you were the neighbour?

Q.3 I need to have a plan in case things go pear shaped. If I get a visit from planning, I’m assuming theres little chance of getting retention on this type of structure as a living space. Is it fair enough to say that I stand a very good chance of getting retention on it as a home office/study and using it as such from that point onwards?

Q4. Someone suggested to me that for planning exemption, the 25m2 is measured in terms of floor area. If having had a visit from the planning officer I put up an internal stud wall to block off the 3m2 to bring it back below the 25m2 floor area allowable, would they be prepared to reinspect on this basis?
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Re: Planning for additonal living space in back garden

Postby tyrrp » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:58 pm

Firstly you need to know that the exempt limit is 40m2 not 25. This must be to the back of the house and not exceed the height of the existing roof lines. From what you have said I can see no reason why you would need planning. However you can call your local council planning department and make an appointment to show them what you want to do and they will tell you on the spot.

Most planning departments at the moment are under serious pressure and are very eager to pass things as exempt. You will need to fill out the proper forms and pay the fee (I think it's €85) but I think you will be fine. You have to fill this form out and pay the fee not matter what. Even if you are 100% sure it is exempt.

As regards putting up a temp wall to fool the planners well don't bother. The area of a building is to the outside of the walls not that it matters as you are well under the limit.

You can refer to the space as a "Home Office" on the planning exemption form but who is to know what you use if for.
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Re: Planning for additonal living space in back garden

Postby energy_audit » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:26 pm

tyrrp wrote:Firstly you need to know that the exempt limit is 40m2 not 25. This must be to the back of the house and not exceed the height of the existing roof lines. From what you have said I can see no reason why you would need planning. However you can call your local council planning department and make an appointment to show them what you want to do and they will tell you on the spot.

My understanding was that 40 xquare meters was for an extension and 25 square meters was the max planning exempt area for a shed/garage, etc.??

tyrrp wrote:You will need to fill out the proper forms and pay the fee (I think it's €85) but I think you will be fine. You have to fill this form out and pay the fee not matter what. Even if you are 100% sure it is exempt.

Thanks for that - wasnt aware of this.
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Re: Planning for additonal living space in back garden

Postby pico » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:21 pm

It is only 25 square metres for a strucure in the back garden as per Planning Regulations 2001.

The DoE website gives details
http://www.environ.ie/DOEI/DOEIPol.nsf/wvNavView/Planning?OpenDocument&Lang=#l3

Check Schedule 2 - Exempted Development -General

and be aware that the structure should not be used for human habitation or for the keeping of pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses or for nay other purpose other than a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the house as such...
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Re: Planning for additonal living space in back garden

Postby Bren88 » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:41 pm

tyrrp wrote:Firstly you need to know that the exempt limit is 40m2 not 25.



I'm guessing you thought that he was refering to an extension not a new structure. And as the OP and pico pointed out the 40m2 is for an extension of two stories.
And 25m2 is for sheds etc, but if you intend to live in it then you need PP, You may easily get it, but I understand you would rather do without the hastle of PP.


tyrrp wrote: As regards putting up a temp wall to fool the planners well don't bother. The area of a building is to the outside of the walls not that it matters as you are well under the limit.


Actually total floor area of a building is calculated to the inside of the walls. Measured inside the external wall but including all internal walls or partitions.




energy_audit:
You could build an exempt "shed" with no problems, I know plenty of people who "live" in such structures (without permission) without trouble. But then again if it causes trouble with the neighbours, it could become alot more awkward for yourself.
Why exactly are you against going for planning. If you did try and get it the 25m2 or 28m2 wouldn't matter.

One thing its worth noting is that once you apply to build something that "could" be classed as exempt, then it is no longer exempt for you.
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Re: Planning for additonal living space in back garden

Postby tyrrp » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:12 pm

Bren88 wrote:I'm guessing you thought that he was refering to an extension not a new structure. And as the OP and pico pointed out the 40m2 is for an extension of two stories.
And 25m2 is for sheds etc, but if you intend to live in it then you need PP, You may easily get it, but I understand you would rather do without the hastle of PP.


DOH! Should have read it better


Bren88 wrote:Actually total floor area of a building is calculated to the inside of the walls. Measured inside the external wall but including all internal walls or partitions.


I just completed a successful planning application in Fingal CC for an extension and they told me to quote the floor area to the outside of the external walls. I wonder if they did this to push for a higher contribution total. Anyway, I will have to wait and see when the bill comes.
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Re: Planning for additonal living space in back garden

Postby Bren88 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:26 pm

By any chance were they refering to the site coverage of the PP. Site coverage is area to GF external walls (footprint) as a percentage of site area. There are limits etc in the Development plan.
But total floor area is internal walls in most situations. there should be a link to the proper explaination, ill try dig it up.
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Re: Planning for additonal living space in back garden

Postby construct_06 » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:03 pm

if one applies for and is granted full planning for an extension, do the exempted limits still apply?
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Re: Planning for additonal living space in back garden

Postby Bren88 » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:54 am

construct_06 wrote:if one applies for and is granted full planning for an extension, do the exempted limits still apply?

The exempted limit is the compound area(s) of all extensions to the house. Even if the extensions was carried out by a previous owner.

So if, a number of years ago, you applied for and got full PP for a 30m.sq extension, then the exemption limit for this house is only 10m.sq.
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