planning objection advice

planning objection advice

Postby donzo112 » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:37 pm

HI
I am hoping to object to a development of apartments that is being developed backing on to my garden. As I have no experience in this field and have never submitted an objection before, I am hoping that somebody may point me in the right direction on how to lay out a submission or possibly show me a template or previous submissions on other developments.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Praxiteles » Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:00 pm

Get a good solicitor to do it for you. Arthur Cox and CO., Earlsford Terrace, Dublin 2 are among the best in the country. Their planning department is headed by the super competent Deborah Spence.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Archie » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:55 am

Praxiteles wrote:Get a good solicitor to do it for you. Arthur Cox and CO., Earlsford Terrace, Dublin 2 are among the best in the country. Their planning department is headed by the super competent Deborah Spence.

My word, thats one helluva plug

Your name isn't Deborah by any chance :D
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Praxiteles » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:57 am

No! But the good lady certainly and successfully sorted out the planning aspects of the Cobh Cathedral business for the Friends of St Colman's Cathedral. She is worth her salt and has proved her metal!!
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby donzo112 » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:02 pm

Praxiteles wrote:No! But the good lady certainly and successfully sorted out the planning aspects of the Cobh Cathedral business for the Friends of St Colman's Cathedral. She is worth her salt and has proved her metal!!

thanks for the advice but trying to do it on the cheap
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:05 am

Believe me: good law may be expensive but bad law is even more expensive.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Chuck E R Law » Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:34 pm

Praxiteles wrote:Believe me: good law may be expensive but bad law is even more expensive.



Yes but how expensive?

The Plain People of Ireland have a right to know what they are being offered.

There are a number of questions for Praxiteles arising from his/her ardent promotion of Ms Spenser as the Fairy Queen of Planning and Environmental Law:

We all enjoyed the lady’s performance in "Debbie Does Queenstown" but - let us be realistic - how could your average planning punter possibly afford fees which would make a multinational pharmachem gasp?

How did FOSCC afford her? Imagine if Ronaldinho togged out for Cobh Ramblers against Kilkenny City! What would he charge?

Are solicitors allowed to advertise on the Internet even indirectly through a Straw Man / Straw Woman?

Is it true that Debbie had to do her stuff for FOSCC because the founder of the practice Arthur Cox was being held to ransom in a Tridentine Indoctrination Camp somewhere in Darkest Africa?
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby PVC King » Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:53 pm

The late Arthur Cox was along with Sean McBride and Cearbhall O'Dailligh a founding member of An Taisce so it is fair to say they have been building up expertise for at least 60 years
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Chuck E R Law » Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:25 pm

Thomond Park wrote:The late Arthur Cox was along with Sean McBride and Cearbhall O'Dailligh a founding member of An Taisce so it is fair to say they have been building up expertise for at least 60 years


It is fair to say that theseThree Amigos thought they were setting up a National Trust for Ireland. We are still waiting for it 60 years later.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:57 pm

Chuck!

Having gazed for too long into the Cave of Despair, I think you need to take a rest and to have a god read of Spencer's works for a while. The poet spells it "Faere Qveene"


http://www.uoregon.edu/~rbear/fqintro.html


TO
THE MOST HIGH,
MIGHTIE
and
MAGNIFICENT
EMPRESSE RENOVV-
MED FOR PIETIE, VER-
TVE, AND ALL GRATIOVS
GOVERNMENT ELIZABETH BY
THE GRACE OF GOD QVEENE
OF ENGLAND FRAVNCE AND
IRELAND AND OF VIRGI-
NIA, DEFENDOVR OF THE
FAITH, &. HER MOST
HVMBLE SERVANT
EDMVND SPENSER
DOTH IN ALL HV-
MILITIE DEDI-
CATE, PRE-
SENT
AND CONSECRATE THESE
HIS LABOVRS TO LIVE
VVITH THE ETERNI-
TIE OF HER
FAME.
Praxiteles
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Archie » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:48 pm

Praxiteles wrote:Chuck!

I think you need to take a rest and read Spencer's works for a while. The poet spells it "Faere Qveene"


http://www.uoregon.edu/~rbear/fqintro.html


TO
THE MOST HIGH,
MIGHTIE
and
MAGNIFICENT
EMPRESSE RENOVV-
MED FOR PIETIE, VER-
TVE, AND ALL GRATIOVS
GOVERNMENT ELIZABETH BY
THE GRACE OF GOD QVEENE
OF ENGLAND FRAVNCE AND
IRELAND AND OF VIRGI-
NIA, DEFENDOVR OF THE
FAITH, &. HER MOST
HVMBLE SERVANT
EDMVND SPENSER
DOTH IN ALL HV-
MILITIE DEDI-
CATE, PRE-
SENT
AND CONSECRATE THESE
HIS LABOVRS TO LIVE
VVITH THE ETERNI-
TIE OF HER
FAME.


And how in the name of hell is this helping the OP with his request for help with an objection to a planning application
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:52 pm

Ask Chuck. He seems to have flipped over a a perfectly sensible comment and, having gazed into the Cave of Despair, came back to tell us about Spencer's Faere Queene.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Gianlorenzo » Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:17 am

Archie wrote:And how in the name of hell is this helping the OP with his request for help with an objection to a planning application


Never mind complaining. How would you help donzo112 ?
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby KerryBog2 » Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:15 pm

I'm a layman like the OP. Firstly, do you have valid grounds on which to object? Is the block going to overview your property?Block your light? The cheap way of doing this is to log on the Bord Pleanala website and look at recent decisions regarding apartment developments that were either refused or approved on appeal. Look at the submissions, observations, etc. and see what was important to the Bord / Planning officer in them. Anyone with a modicum of cop would see what is possible in the development . A planning consultant is a possibility and if your neighbours also are against the development they possibly would share the cost. A joint approach also would strengthen your case. As for lawyers, run a mile. Nothing against Arthur Cox, but big law firms have very fancy offices, pretty (usually) receptionists and high outgoings to pay for. People who go to law for principle pay for all that.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Archie » Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:18 pm

KerryBog2 wrote:I'm a layman like the OP. Firstly, do you have valid grounds on which to object? Is the block going to overview your property?Block your light? The cheap way of doing this is to log on the Bord Pleanala website and look at recent decisions regarding apartment developments that were either refused or approved on appeal. Look at the submissions, observations, etc. and see what was important to the Bord / Planning officer in them. Anyone with a modicum of cop would see what is possible in the development . A planning consultant is a possibility and if your neighbours also are against the development they possibly would share the cost. A joint approach also would strengthen your case. As for lawyers, run a mile. Nothing against Arthur Cox, but big law firms have very fancy offices, pretty (usually) receptionists and high outgoings to pay for. People who go to law for principle pay for all that.


Couln't agree more. For a "layman" you have well and truly hit the nail on the head.

I'm involved in submitting planning applications but I prefer to keep a watching brief on matters of objections and that is why I haven't been too generous with advice here for the OP
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby PVC King » Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:35 pm

Chuck E R Law wrote:It is fair to say that theseThree Amigos thought they were setting up a National Trust for Ireland. We are still waiting for it 60 years later.


That quote sums you up quite nicely;

Sean MacBride; A legend in historical and political circles
O'Dailligh: The fifth President of Ireland and Supreme Court Judge responsible for many headline cases still headline cases 30 years later
Arthur Cox; founder of the most successful commercial legal practice in the history of Ireland

For your information An Taisce has been the only trust recognised by IUCN and has been for a very long time; if you think that what is currently being discussed will do anything more than gold plate 2 or 3 large houses then you are every bit as niave as your user name suggests.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Chuck E R Law » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:46 pm

[quote="Thomond Park"]

For your information An Taisce has been the only trust recognised by IUCN and has been for a very long time]

An Taisce is not the only trust recognised by IUCN.

An Taisce is just one of more than 700 environmental and conservation NGOs which are members of IUCN including the National Trusts of most of the Commonwealth countries.

When An Taisce was founded everyone expected that it would perform the same role in the Republic that the National Trust does in the UK. Have a look at the pathetic property portfolio on the AT website. The jewel in the crown, Kanturk Castle, was actually a hand me down from the UK Trust.

You are obviously not impressed by “what is currently being discussed” but at least somebody is trying to address this gross dereliction of a national duty.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby tommyt » Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:47 pm

KerryBog2 wrote:I'm a layman like the OP. Firstly, do you have valid grounds on which to object? Is the block going to overview your property?Block your light? The cheap way of doing this is to log on the Bord Pleanala website and look at recent decisions regarding apartment developments that were either refused or approved on appeal. Look at the submissions, observations, etc. and see what was important to the Bord / Planning officer in them. Anyone with a modicum of cop would see what is possible in the development . A planning consultant is a possibility and if your neighbours also are against the development they possibly would share the cost. A joint approach also would strengthen your case. As for lawyers, run a mile. Nothing against Arthur Cox, but big law firms have very fancy offices, pretty (usually) receptionists and high outgoings to pay for. People who go to law for principle pay for all that.



Best advice on this forum EVER. Can mods sticky this as it willl save a lot of hassle in the future
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby PVC King » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:05 pm

Chuck E R Law wrote: An Taisce is not the only trust recognised by IUCN.


Quite correct but other than NTNI it is the only one on the Island of Ireland recognised as a national trust.

Chuck E R Law wrote:An Taisce is just one of more than 700 environmental and conservation NGOs which are members of IUCN including the National Trusts of most of the Commonwealth countries.


Exactly and An Taisce are the sole ROI members in each regional grouping.

Chuck E R Law wrote:When An Taisce was founded everyone expected that it would perform the same role in the Republic that the National Trust does in the UK. Have a look at the pathetic property portfolio on the AT website. The jewel in the crown, Kanturk Castle, was actually a hand me down from the UK Trust.


The 1905 incarnation of the National Trust led by Yeats and Lady Gregory had exactly the same ideals as present day An Taisce and when the political context was right the UK National Trust were more than happy to return Kanturk Castle to the only custodians they trusted.

Chuck E R Law wrote:You are obviously not impressed by “what is currently being discussed” but at least somebody is trying to address this gross dereliction of a national duty.


I am very comfortable with what is being discussed but without knowing the facts I will not advise anyone one way or the other.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby ConK » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:57 pm

I was sucessful recently blocking a development going up beside my house. I went into the bord pleanala offices on marlborough street, and found them very helpful. I described my case to them and they brought out a load of similar files for me to have a look at.

You can see the examiners reports, photos of the site, objection letters, drawings and most importantly you can quickly learn the language that they use, "residential amenity", "intensification of use", "over shadowing". I had shopped around for someone to do the submissions for me but they were going to charge me €1000.

The only skill you need is to be able to read and write.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Bren88 » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:24 pm

ConK wrote: I had shopped around for someone to do the submissions for me but they were going to charge me €1000.



Ha, some chancers out there. I'd charge that for a small planning application and he wanted it just for an objection. I'd advise anyone with half a brain to do this themselves.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Deaglan » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:52 pm

I believe KerryBog2 gave exceptional advice. Don't pay a grand for something you can achieve yourself. Study some decisions by An Bord Pleanal, I'm certain if you browse through some of the cases on their website, you'll find one similiar to yours. Basically, see what the inspectors report covered and always, specify your arguement in development terms. Nothing personal, but these people don't entertain the if's and but's of why it affects you.

I wish you all the best with it.
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby Chuck E R Law » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:30 pm

I am puzzled by Parks response to my point that An Taisce is not the only trust recognised by IUCN.

Thomond Park wrote:Quite correct but other than NTNI it is the only one on the Island of Ireland recognised as a national trust.


We find it hard enough to believe that there could be Two Nations on this island each requiring its own national trust - but do you think there might even be more than two?
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Re: planning objection advice

Postby PVC King » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:35 pm

The cultural link between both groups is further strengthened by their bonds with the ultra independent National Trust of Scotland and semi-autonomous National Trust of Wales.

Scotland is interesting because a politically motivated manouver like Dick's trick was tried in Scotland with the establishment of Historic or as Alan D would say Hysteric Scotland whose membership application of IUCN was rejected.
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