Kenmare Heritage Planning

Kenmare Heritage Planning

Postby enmareKeith » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:39 pm

Kenmare is a Heritage Town recently voted as one of the best 10 towns to live in worldwide.
Planning in the Town is highly restricted due to it's Heritage Status.
Residents are up in arms about a huge proposed development which would drastically alter the size and feel of the town for the next 7 years.
Details are on http://www.virtualkenmare.com
My question is why is a property developer permitted to drastically alter the whole feel of a town and build hundreds of houses none of which fit in architecturally with the Heritage Town ?
There are many objections being lodged against the development - but if planning is permitted - where do we appeal to afterwards ?

Residents were shown a presentation of the plans but these seem to have concealed some facts - like the huge amount of new retail and office space being applied for ( over 48 thousand square feet of office and retail premises and an additional 36 thousand square foot supermarket) The supermarket was mentioned but not the size of it.

I was refused permission to photograph the plans at the presentation.

Now we have seen the actual plans it would seem that they are trying to make a mini city out of Kenmare. In the opinion of residents this will kill the tourist industry locally (our only major industry) and will greatly increase the problems of traffic,water supply,sewerage and council expenses.
Considering that Kenmare currently has many empty properties and offices, residents wonder why this development is taking place at all.
Any useful comments would be appreciated.
Keith
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Re: Kenmare Heritage Planning

Postby Chuck E R Law » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:24 pm

enmareKeith wrote:Kenmare is a Heritage Town recently voted as one of the best 10 towns to live in worldwide.
Planning in the Town is highly restricted due to it's Heritage Status.
Residents are up in arms about a huge proposed development which would drastically alter the size and feel of the town for the next 7 years.
Details are on http://www.virtualkenmare.com
My question is why is a property developer permitted to drastically alter the whole feel of a town and build hundreds of houses none of which fit in architecturally with the Heritage Town ?
There are many objections being lodged against the development - but if planning is permitted - where do we appeal to afterwards ?

Residents were shown a presentation of the plans but these seem to have concealed some facts - like the huge amount of new retail and office space being applied for ( over 48 thousand square feet of office and retail premises and an additional 36 thousand square foot supermarket) The supermarket was mentioned but not the size of it.

I was refused permission to photograph the plans at the presentation.

Now we have seen the actual plans it would seem that they are trying to make a mini city out of Kenmare. In the opinion of residents this will kill the tourist industry locally (our only major industry) and will greatly increase the problems of traffic,water supply,sewerage and council expenses.
Considering that Kenmare currently has many empty properties and offices, residents wonder why this development is taking place at all.
Any useful comments would be appreciated.
Keith


Given the size of the town it is quite likely that there is a Plan for Kenmare which will include zoning objectives for the areas within the town boundary.

If you look up the site in question you will see what it is zoned for and at what density. If you multiply the site area by the density you will find out how many units the Plan allows. Then you should have another look at the planning application and you may find that that the proposal is more or less what the Plan intended.

Then you should pause and reflect: are you going to become a recreational objector and spend the next year attending meetings of well-heeled nimbys and collecting thousands of euro to employ a top planning consultant from Dublin only to find at the end of the process that An Bord Pleanala will grant permission on the basis that the proposal is in accordance with the Plan?

I know you will probably have great fun, make new friends, and generally feel like you are a member of the community. It is probably too late to stop now as your posting already shows signs of "third party paranoia" and it sounds like you are well on the way to your first conspiracy theory. However if you were too busy to get involved in the review of the Town Plan you would be better off giving up the planning campaign and spending the time fleecing tourists like any respectable Kenmare resident.

Incidentally the Council was right not to allow you to photograph the plans. It is not a devious plot but simply because the drawings are copyright to the architect. Why didn't you buy a copy of the plans like any normal person?
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Re: Kenmare Heritage Planning

Postby PVC King » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:17 am

enmareKeith wrote:My question is why is a property developer permitted to drastically alter the whole feel of a town and build hundreds of houses none of which fit in architecturally with the Heritage Town ?
There are many objections being lodged against the development - but if planning is permitted - where do we appeal to afterwards ?



Hundreds of houses for Kenmare does not sound like proper planning whatsoever; I would imagine that you or someone else will be taking an Appeal to An Bord Pleannala. I would seek advice from a local Councillor on how to proceed
PVC King
 

Re: Kenmare Heritage Planning

Postby Praxiteles » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:38 pm

I am quite amazed that CERL is so intimately conversant with the planning law of the Free State. Perhaps, CERL refers to another day for someone other than those who normally refer to it.\


Your description of the planning consultation that took place in Kenmare, I have to say that some aspects of it are remarkably similar to the "consultations" that took place about the plans to wreck the interior of Cobh Cathedral, including a rather catty bit about copying plans and drawings. Do you know the name of the planning consultant who is organising the running for the Kenmare scheme?

You will probably have to hire a very competent firm of solicitors to deal with this one effectively. Arthur Cox and Company of Earlsford Terrace, Dublin are among the best in the country and well worth the money. They will also be in a position to advise on the best planning consultants etc.
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Re: Kenmare Heritage Planning

Postby Chuck E R Law » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:30 pm

Praxiteles wrote:I am quite amazed that CERL is so intimately conversant with the planning law of the Free State.


The poverty of imagination of the Free State bureaucracy is reflected in the fact that the 1963 Planning and Development Act is in most respects a direct cog of the British Town and County Planning Act, 1947. One significant difference is that the Paddies did not trust their fellow Paddies enough to allow Councillors to make decisions on planning applications.
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Re: Kenmare Heritage Planning

Postby PVC King » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:53 am

I wonder why
PVC King
 

Re: Kenmare Heritage Planning

Postby Frank Taylor » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:00 pm

enmareKeith wrote:My question is why is a property developer permitted to drastically alter the whole feel of a town and build hundreds of houses none of which fit in architecturally with the Heritage Town ?
It is impossible to comment on whether the houses fit in with the town without seeing the plans.
re many objections being lodged against the development - but if planning is permitted - where do we appeal to afterwards ?
You can object to the plans when they are submitted to the council. If the council approves you can then make an objection to An Bord Pleanala. If ABP approve then this is the end of the road (unless you wish to go to the High Court)

Now we have seen the actual plans it would seem that they are trying to make a mini city out of Kenmare.
The proposal contains 300 houses. Hardly a city or even a minicity.

In the opinion of residents this will kill the tourist industry locally (our only major industry) and will greatly increase the problems of traffic,water supply,sewerage and council expenses.
If the development destroys the aesthetic qualities of the town then it may harm tourism. I would need to see the plans. The developers would have to pay huge levies to the council to meet sewage and water supply costs. Traffic problems are not purely related to population and have more to do with building and road layout.

Considering that Kenmare currently has many empty properties and offices, residents wonder why this development is taking place at all.
The developer and his banks must believe that someone will buy their property.

Any useful comments would be appreciated.
You can take one of two approaches. You can fight tooth and nail and either succeed in partially reducing the plans of the developer or fail completely. Or you could take a concilatory approach and try to work with the developer to ensure that the plans enhance rather than detract from the town.

When a town grows it doesn't have to be a bad thing yet this is the overriding impression from your comments. Extra houses will need extra retail. This would mean more shops for the locals. Office space and more local residents makes the town a more suitable place to locate business and more jobs for locals.

A town can grow in different patterms. You could alllow 300 housing estate houses on half acre plots or 300 one off houses on 1 acre plots or 300 apartments or 300 terraced houses, following the pattern of the centre of the town. The retail may be out of town, increasing traffic, or street level following the traditional pattern. The offices may be modern blocks or housed in buildings that look like the residential areas. The developers' repsonses on your website seem fairly reasonalble and you may act in your best interests by engaging with them rather than just going for 'No surrender'

I can understand your fears. Tralee works well in the centre but most of the growth for the past 40 years has been Tallaght style housing estates. The houses are so far apart that driving is the only way for residents to get between each others houses.
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Re: Kenmare Heritage Planning

Postby KerryBog2 » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:18 pm

Kenmare already is a building site, with crap houses and estates being thrown up everywhere. Just like Tallaght, except there are more trees and fewer horses in Kenmare. No cinema, no swimming pool or public football areas. Nothing for teenagers to do. The original proposal on this has been thrown out; it is only a matter of time before it is back in a different guise. One does not pay 500k an acre to let it lie there. (I think it was 19 mill for 39.odd acres) HOWEVER do not get distracted, much of the objection was drummed up by the the greasy till brigade who did not want a new shopping centre to re-focus the town centre and draw business away from them!
It is true that Forbes Magazine voted Kenmare as one of the top retirement places, but that has to be suspect and I put it down to a superfluity of liquid hospitality at the Park.
There are few if any commercial properties available in Kenmare, only John R's is available that I know of and ripe for commercial redevelopment. As for talking to councillors, shur Jackie Healy-Rae and the boys will look after ye..........
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