Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby stifz » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:39 pm

I decided after the roasting i took yesterday aka hutton.. to look a little further into the said 'recent influx of one-off posts ' and came across something which i feel can only be said as.. the absolute truth by burge_eye.

If this is a forum ' irish planning matters' then each and every user should be allowed to ask a valid question and post a thread without the heavies who have naff all else to do but spend there day posting critisim to unaware new users or is there a 'click' for the selected few?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


15th June 2006, 06:03 PM #14
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Re: Do all houses in Meath have to look the same?
I'm getting a bit tired of all you architectural genius's rubbishing people who come onto this site for, at the very least, a little advice and or direction. Let's see the RIAI gold medal winning schemes that hutton or doyle have come up with. Anyone who has tried to build something of architectural merit in a rural setting in this country will know just how morale sapping it can be. You lot display the perfect example of arrogant unapproachable architects that send people like Penny into the hands of technicians with the "house plan" book.

Perhaps you could turn your high powered spectacles on yourselves and come up with some good advice on design, planning and construction in rural settings. Post some examples of good rural architecture both past and present and set up something that new members can browse and be inspired by. Or you could teach......
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Postby lexington » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:55 pm

There is a lot of truth in that -

however, I would point out that a great deal of the questions asked could be easily answered by navigating the forums or using the search facility. It can be a little disheartening to see the same questions re-emerge time and time again. To that end, the influx of certain questions (of a similar nature) can be tiresome and seems to detract somewhat for discussion focusses. To this end, frustration can at times be understood. Beyond that, I do agree that attitudes sometimes expressed a reflectant of the issues highlighted by burge_eye and that is most disappointing.

I would be perhaps beneficial to all concerned were there a highlighted link/banner at the homepage directing all those with planning enquiries to the Planning Matters forum and each unique question posted utilising a 'countdown' facility as some problem forums contain, which indicates questions that have not be answered. This would provide a categorisation of unique problems and allow new users easily look-up specific queries while allowing other users avoid answering the same questions time and time again. Just a suggestion.
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby PVC King » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:19 pm

I agree that it is both boring to read the same questions again and again and it is concerning to see the way that some glory in the way that other posters attack new posts that are often asking questions on well versed debates in a relaivley niave way vis a vis the length of time the issue has been discussed here.

I think the sticky has laid down a marker that a search should be conducted prior to posting as recycling is very environmentally freindly.

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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:44 pm

stifz wrote:I
I'm getting a bit tired of all you architectural genius's rubbishing people who come onto this site for, at the very least, a little advice and or direction. Let's see the RIAI gold medal winning schemes that hutton or doyle have come up with. Anyone who has tried to build something of architectural merit in a rural setting in this country will know just how morale sapping it can be. You lot display the perfect example of arrogant unapproachable architects that send people like Penny into the hands of technicians with the "house plan" book.



most of us are not architects, just ordinary joes with opinions on architecture and a desire to see better standards in the country
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby stifz » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:49 pm

I also agree that revisiting similar questions can be somewhat boring but how are you to know as a first time user - since yesterday i believe there is a note saying use searchs etc which helps. So thats a good step forward.

After doing some research on other threads i still am no clearer in knowing if i buy a house built by someone caught in a 5 occupancy clause who claims to have a waver blocking this provided i put my name down to fit within the rural development plan do i then loose any claim to build on my own land in the future when our needs out grow the small house. Not asking for judgement nor ridicule just a possible answer to the above question from someone who has encounter such before.

And i feel i got away lightly yesterday in comparison to the post by purple1703 on new home.. talk about a complete slating. I post on numerous forums on many different topics and i've yet to come across such a situation where your made to feel like a child in the corner as everyone else discusses your cheek in posting such a questio and how to ban such a thing ever happening in the future?!

Yet not one of those involved had any idea to be capable to answer the question. And before we go off on one about ask your architect and free advice..and the price for such a service I have asked both the council & an architect None of which can give me a clear answer hence i ask a forum in the hope that someone somewhere may have encountered something similiar...
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby phil » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:01 pm

stifz,

I think you were unlucky yesterday in that the response you got might not have really been directed at your question but at other ongoing issues which may have been highlighted by your post.

With regards to your situation, I would probably consult a solicitor as it seems to be more of a law thing than anything else. They might be able to direct you to someone with more precise knowledge on what you are looking for.
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:07 pm

stifz wrote:If this is a forum ' irish planning matters' then each and every user should be allowed to ask a valid question and post a thread without the heavies who have naff all else to do but spend there day posting critisim to unaware new users or is there a 'click' for the selected few?

I imagine most of us have many better things to do than to repeat ourselves ad nauseam for the benefit of new users who haven't familiarised themselves with the site. If I had unlimited time to answer specific queries then I'd probably try. Or I might set myself up as a planning consultant and charge you the going rate. Then at least I'd be gaining something tangible from the exchange instead of just abuse. But I have a full time job towards which my planning energies are directed.

If you read my comments on the other thread that hutton started about one-off posters you'll see that I said that I took some time to give detailed answers to questions in the hopes of obviating repeated requests for similar/identical information. I bother to do it because I do believe that the planning system can be difficult to navigate for the layman (hell, it can even be difficult for the seasoned pro at times) and if I have the info then I'm happy to pass it on. (I say 'if'- nobody knows everything.) But the perceived difficulties of the system seem to have become an excuse for people not to bother even trying to find their own answers. A good few times now I have simply posted links to local authority planning websites that have goof FAQ pages where most basic things are covered.

Bear in mind this is a discussion forum, not an advice column. If we can help, well and good, but please don't see it as your right to be given an answer and please don't get shirty if nobody knows the answer either.

As for a 'click' (clique?)- this is the internet. We don't do social. For all anyone else knows, I'm a 60 year old housewife with a drink problem and a crush on Eamon Holmes. I share many views with some posters, I'm fully at odds with other ones, but to think that there's ganging up going on is patently absurd.

Re burge-eye's comments: What Paul said. I'm a planner (and architectural historian) who comes here to listen, to learn, to share what I know and sometimes to enlighten. Most RIAI medal winners wouldn't post here- it'd show up just how little they know about the real world.;)

Anyway, stick around if you can. I'm serious. You just arrived at a bad time, I think. All newcomers are welcome, especially if they're willing to roll up their sleeves and get stuck in. Despite what burge-eye says, we're mostly commoners. Opinionated commoners, but commoners nevertheless.
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby publicrealm » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:32 pm

Eamon Holmes??
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby GrahamH » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:34 am

Who'da thought it eh publicrealm?
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby ctesiphon » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:36 am

publicrealm wrote:Eamon Holmes??

Yup. Don't all ladies of a certain age have a thing for him? That whole 'poor man's Terry Wogan' routine seems to be a winner.
Or were you marvelling at my ability to spell it correctly (with only one N)?:)
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby Frank Taylor » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:52 am

It's pointless blaming individuals for building one-off houses, you might as well criticise people for picking money up off the ground. Tens of thousands of one-off houses are built every year, mostly with full legal sanction. Your dispute should be with the legislators - whom you choose.
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby hutton » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:55 pm

stifz,

Phil is offering you sound advice; sounds as if it is a matter that requires legal interpretation.

Hope youve recovered from the 'roasting', but as others pointed out you were probably unlucky in your timing.

BTW A very warm welcome to the site :D
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby paulisadick » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:31 pm

Paul Clerkin wrote:most of us are not architects, just ordinary joes with opinions on architecture and a desire to see better standards in the country


Your not an ordinary Joe bud. Your a bleeding culchie from Monaghan.
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby burge_eye » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:36 pm

Paul Clerkin wrote:most of us are not architects, just ordinary joes with opinions on architecture and a desire to see better standards in the country


That doesn't excuse destructive criticism. The crux of my point was, regardless of who or what you are, if you've nothing helpful to say then don't say anything. If you disagreee with new posts or think questions beneath you, then ignore it and go back to whatever it is you do.
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby publicrealm » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:27 pm

ctesiphon wrote:Yup. Don't all ladies of a certain age have a thing for him? That whole 'poor man's Terry Wogan' routine seems to be a winner.
Or were you marvelling at my ability to spell it correctly (with only one N)?:)



It's just that, you know, I thought that you were available. It's not as if you hav'nt been putting yourself about on this forum.

I'm of a similar age and am also recovering from certain things and then this guy comes out of nowhere.

That's why I havn't posted in a while.

sniff
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby ctesiphon » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:02 am

Guy? What guy?! You mean there's someone else?! :(
So much for the subtle approach in matters of the heart. It seems I'm destined to spend the rest of my days casting about for meaningful human interaction on the internet. Oh woe is me!

*hugs monitor*

You won't desert me will you, Inty?

*********

Back OT, briefly:

burge_eye:
I was brought up with the phrase 'If you've nothing constructive to say, say nothing', a subtle but important difference from 'helpful'.
As for this: 'If you disagreee with new posts ... then ignore it and go back to whatever it is you do.'??? You can't be saying that sycophantic fawning and affirmation is the only commentary you'll brook, can you? This is Archiseek, remember, not the AAI awards.
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby PDLL » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:02 pm

Burge-eye and Stifz. I refer you to post 373 of the 'well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside' thread where I wrote the following:

[quote]I have to say that having also read many contributions to this website that many of the remarks have a very cutting edge to them - the atmosphere seems to be one of putting people down rather than of discussing architecture/planning issues. Sorry, but it is an observation that I have noted to myself since joining and what is worse is that the atmosphere makes others joining the discussions extremely cyncial and aggressive [quote/]

Oddly enough, I made that remark on 18 September 2005. It seems that nothing has changed in Archiseek in the last year. New comers to the forum should be shown courtesy and their lack of indepth and insider knowledge should be treated with a modicum of tolerance, patience and respect. All of these values are sadly missing throughout much of what is posted in Archiseek. Rather what is in large supply is a hostile Dublin-centric arrogance shared amongst a small clique of regular posters who force an overwrought oh-so enlightened eco-friendly urban vision of the world down your throat. Sadly Archiseek could ertainly could win an award for the most inhospitable discussion forums on the internet. And before the usual voices take the inevitable pot-shots at me, take your own advice and go back and read your own posts over the last couple of years to familiarise yourselves with the often vitriolic content of your replies.
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby burge_eye » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:38 pm

ctesiphon wrote:Guy? What guy?! You mean there's someone else?! :(
So much for the subtle approach in matters of the heart. It seems I'm destined to spend the rest of my days casting about for meaningful human interaction on the internet. Oh woe is me!

*hugs monitor*

You won't desert me will you, Inty?

*********

Back OT, briefly:

burge_eye:
I was brought up with the phrase 'If you've nothing constructive to say, say nothing', a subtle but important difference from 'helpful'.
As for this: 'If you disagreee with new posts ... then ignore it and go back to whatever it is you do.'??? You can't be saying that sycophantic fawning and affirmation is the only commentary you'll brook, can you? This is Archiseek, remember, not the AAI awards.



as you can see from post 1 what I went on to say was

"Perhaps you could turn your high powered spectacles on yourselves and come up with some good advice on design, planning and construction in rural settings. Post some examples of good rural architecture both past and present and set up something that new members can browse and be inspired by. Or you could teach......"

If you can't do that then "then ignore it and go back to whatever it is you do"

I'll comment on design as I see it. The crucial difference is that the people who become the brunt of your jokes and schoolyard giggling don't necessarily know what good design is. Find out who supplies the crap to them in the first place and direct your bile at them if you must. Otherwise nudge people gently in the direction of a more "sympathetic "scheme
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby PDLL » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:14 pm

I see my previous remarks were censored. It is sad that comments which actually express a legitimate opinion (and one that obviously concurs with that of other new-coming contributors) had to be expunged from the record. For the record and in the context of the current discussion, I will again refer the heavily criticized newcomers above to read my post number 373 in the 'well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside'. Oh, sorry, I note that that post has also been deleted - Archiseek, it seems does not like justifiable and legitimate criticism. Perhaps instead of deleting this post this time, it would be recognized that a year ago I expressed the exact same sense of dismay over the aggressiveness shown by some contributors towards newcomers to this forum. Maybe instead of deleting posts, this should rather be taken into consideration and something done to curb the snideness of others on this forum.
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby PDLL » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

Thank you, moderator, for re-instating my comments above.
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Re: Before posting - what a newbie should know.

Postby PDLL » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:55 pm

Thank you, moderator, for re-instating my comments above. Or, at least for re-instating them in the non-public part of the site. Interesting technique. Last used in North Korea I believe.
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