Planning questions

Planning questions

Postby billy no mates » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:39 am

Hi, I'm new here so sorry if theyv'e been asked before, I have two questions.
One relates to urban and rural planning, how do I know if a proposed site is an Urban or Rural site? Is there a simple definition?

The second one relates to a planning application, if a planning application has been validated (but not yet approved) and it subsequently transpires that there is an error in the application that has somehow slipped by but should have invalidated the application, can a planning dept invalidate this application once its brought to their attention, or what normally happens?
For example an item on the Planning Application Validation Checklist has been marked as being correct when it actually is'nt?
Thanks in advance....
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Re: Planning questions

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:32 am

On question 1:
There are probably two answers to this. The simple one is that if it's in a built up area (over 1500 pop.? i.e. more than a village) it's urban, otherwise it's rural. I'm taking the figure of 1500 from the 2000 Act re Local Area Plans- it's the threshold beyond which a plan is required. (Check the figure to be sure.) Or more simply- can you see more green than grey?:)
The second answer is that every part of the country is covered by a county development plan drawn up by a planning authority, but only certain parts are covered by special urban plans- scheduled towns in a county DP, discrete town DPs made by UDCs etc. So if a site's not covered by a town plan, it's probably rural.
Have you asked the planning authority in question? They should know for sure.

On question 2:
I have a vague memory that this was discussed in a previous thread, but I can't remember which one. Probably in this 'Irish Planning Matters' sub-forum. If you do a search for 'validation/valid/invalid' (try a few possibilities) in the blue bar near the top of the page (see above, between 'New Posts; and 'Quick Links') it should turn up the relevant info.
My gut feeling is that once it's been validated it's in the clear, but I've a niggling feeling that I'm wrong too. Certainly, it would be better to have it validated properly so ther are no hiccups down the line.

One other thing- I have a faint memory of something like this going through the courts recently, where the issue of validation was the core of the case. You don't want a high court challenge on your hands now, do you?;)

Sorry for the lack of certainty. It's been a long day and my head is a little woolly.

Maybe someone else could confirm/deny- sw101?
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Re: Planning questions

Postby billy no mates » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:58 am

Thanks for that, the area is Navan and covered by Navan "Urban" District council so I'm guessing its Urban, I'll do a search for the other. Its not me planning by the way but objecting, I've found an error in the application which should have invalidated it, the council says its too late now, they are still considering permission. I'm requestiing they invalidate it now I've pointed it out, they say they don't have the power.
If you can think of anything else I can do or should know please let me know.


Edit: Just searched whole forum but could'nt find anything....
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Re: Planning questions

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:28 am

Aye- I did a quick search too but couldn't find anything either. If you don't have personal access to the Irish Times archive by subscription, try it through your local library and look for stories about court cases on validation. I know it's a long shot, sorry. If it helps, Dungarvan (the Waterford one) sticks in my mind for some reason. Though according to the papers, Dungarvan wouldn't be known for flawless application of the planning system (allegedly- it's stil in the courts).

AFAIK Navan has its own DP.

It might be worth your while asking a Planning Consultant about it. For a small fee you'd get a straight answer. This kind of thing is their bread and butter.

Best of luck.
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Re: Planning questions

Postby sw101 » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:59 am

what was the error? the problem here is that the planning permission is a legal document, and any error will cause problems down the line if it comes to certifying the works or selling the property.

if it is granted permission and you have already submitted an observation, you can appeal to an bord pleanala. if the council glossed over it and now reckon it should be granted anyway, i don't fancy your chances.
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Re: Planning questions

Postby tommyt » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:32 pm

Sounds to me that your first port of call should be a planing consultant to ascertain if you are exactly correct in stating that there application should not have been validated.

if this is the case and the development got PP and you have not submitted an objection your next port of call is seeking a judicial review of the whole application.

The Irish Times law report dealing with this matter was in the paper a couple of weeks ago and related to the fact that the planning application was incorrectly filed on the council database by the wrong year and so did not allow reasonable notice for the public to record their objections/observations. Think the judge through the whole application out. T
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Re: Planning questions

Postby niallig » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:43 pm

Ok not sure how relevant this would be but, i know if someone receives planning permission by default, i.e. no decision within 8 weeks the planning authority can still revoke the automatic grant of permission by seeing if the application was valid in the first place. However it has to be significant, i.e wrong scale, no septic tank marked, no outbuilding shown. Dublin City Council took action against a fella called Molloy on the ground he had no north point on the map and the judge said that alone was not enough.
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