Standard of Education in DIT, Bolton Street

World architecture... what's happening generally....

Postby nada » Mon Oct 09, 2000 4:40 pm

We could all sit around and bitch at each other and at the department and at the world in general if thats what you really want, but it's not getting anyone anywhere. Yeah it's good to know that there are alot of people out there that feel as strongly - that itself is encouraging but the aggressive energy has to be put to better use, its not even just here, the same thing is going on at the meetings, everybody rehashing what has been said before.
Somebody said a while back that going to the media was a drastic action - far down the line - bollox - everythings far down the line according to some people. yes I know the view of going to the media could be seen as shootig ourselves in the foot, okay we all know how bad it is here and how substandard the piece of paper at the end of it all is, and do we really want future employers to know it, too late, most of them already do, it's getting to the stage where we have nothing more to lose.
media, mass walkouts, sit-ins ... it's going to have to happen
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Postby jim » Tue Oct 10, 2000 12:12 am

Obviously the older more experienced lecturers / lechers are teaching the younger ones the tricks of the trade.
Well-done Bolton street staff –you’ve scored highly.

Postby whatever » Tue Oct 10, 2000 5:33 am


Obviously all is not well in the state of Architectural education when pencils have been forgotten as the tool of the trade.

'walk before you run' whoever

Postby jamie delano » Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:42 am

I wouldn't be too concerned about the facilities (or lack of) in Bolton St. (although i accept the situation is far from ideal).
Have you seen the state of UP6 (La Villette) in Paris?
Getting more computers isn't going to improve things. It's just a superficial solution, and the poor standard of the teaching staff is a far more pressing matter, in my opinion.
jamie delano

Postby p » Tue Oct 10, 2000 12:07 pm


Postby nada » Tue Oct 10, 2000 3:12 pm

what annoys a lot of people is not only not having computors but not having access to computors that are already there - its the whole politics behind it that pisses everybody off. Anybody who has gotton into this course knows fine well that you don't need a computor t design but in the real world you do need to be able to use them proficiently in order to get your foot in most doors. Everybody knows that the money is there and that grangegorman is being put before the students.
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Postby duncan » Tue Oct 10, 2000 7:20 pm

first staff student meeting today and
still lack of real discussion

jim horan, eddie o`shea and the head of technology
class reps from all years apart from tek 2+3 present
meeting went well
maybe too much time spent on the comp issue

since my last post there has been no talk re what we as architects are thinking and talking about.
computers and technology like this are only a little tool
what goes on in your heads and what you talk about and do is what counts
again i am challenging you to look into the question of a just world
do you agree?
if not say so
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Postby duncan » Tue Oct 10, 2000 7:35 pm

first staff student meeting,
lack of real talk
my example

jim, eddie and tek head
reps form all years apart form tek 2+3
meeting went well
maybe too much time on comp issues

since my last post there ahs been no talk re direction
all computer issues
yes they are important but comps and technology are only tools

what goes on in your heads, what you talk about and what you do is what counts

will you respond to my challenge of looking into and helping create systems that lead to a just world
ie clean environment, human rights, people enjoying living etc

there has been a little bit of real discussion so far in college
i am very happy with my year, 4th, so far, noel is committed and doing a good job as are the rest, not having comps has not been a problem so far

the first meeting of the world society is on tommorrow at 1.00 in 132, it is free talks on stuff for everyone, student, staff, public

we had our first project handup yesterday.
my answer was a PLAY space for the city.
n orange water slide from the roof of the main building of ifsc into georges dock

PUBLICIZATION, making ground floor and roof levels public zones, the square for public use
arthouse, a now derelict building turned into free art workshops, all media, art presented in new g.f gallery or roof or square

the docks are dead, that was my answer to how it could be.
we as arx have to look into why this is so, how does change happen and try to implement it.

i am throwing this out jsut as an example of my view of architecture.
i am challengign you to respond
will you?
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Postby MG » Wed Oct 11, 2000 12:10 am

pretentious arsehole
not a bit of wonder that the general public ignores architects and doesnt mind standard apartment living
Senior Member
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Postby jamie delano » Wed Oct 11, 2000 12:08 pm

Just a few thoughts in response to MJ's most insightful and considered post.

Architects start with nothing but a bunch of blank paper. They need to be able to justify every single decision they make, at least to themselves, and sometimes making a written summary of the thought process behind a project can be difficult without lapsing into language which obscures, rather than clarifies, those decisions (see any deconstruction manifesto).

The written description of this thought process does not equate to a finished building.

I don't find that Duncan's langauge in recent posts is obscuring his ideas or inhibiting his clarity.
Just the opposite in fact. His posts are neat summaries (and a validation) of his thoughts on architecture and his approach to design. That you find these thoughts pretentious is seriously disturbing. Are you an architect?

Perhaps you are bitter, your own thinking inhibited and obscured by years spoonfed on soap operas and gameshows.

A play/public space at the base and roof of the IFSC sounds like thoughtful design to me. Or would you rather the area was like the city district of London, devoid of life, a monument to the faceless corporations lurking behind monolithic facades?

The problem with apartments in Dublin (which is already being discussed on another thread, so i'm not really going to get into it here) is that there is no thought process at all their design, beyond copying (with minor modifications) the same banal scheme used six months ago on a different site.
jamie delano

Postby JL » Wed Oct 11, 2000 7:09 pm

I think Duncan is dead right in arguing for a more considered, rounded, political approach to design.

I think the anti-intellectual stance of some of our educational institutions has, in the case of architects, directly led to an older generation of architects, many of whom will do anything developers tell them, think that serving the needs of business equals doing a good job, and for whom the deepest they get into design is making sure it's trendy (best case).

I think other colleges have a long way to go on this also.

Architecture is taught on an almost entirely physical, formal, basis - e.g. project sites are analysed in an entirely physical way. But any site has an existing political/social power structure. An architectural intervention will obviously alter this, and a simple question to ask is how these power structures will be altered.

We have a society (richer rich, poorer poor) which doesn't seem to care, but why do we have an architectural profession/institute/student body incapable of asking questions?
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Postby o » Wed Oct 11, 2000 7:34 pm

i agree with duncans thoughts on the ifsc-i visited last weekend and the place was deserted except for a couple of security guards . its so dead

whats this about new plans for friday afternoons in the school of architecture?

Postby FT101-3 » Sat Oct 14, 2000 4:03 pm

On a positive note (one has to be optimistic, even in Bolton St.), I would like to inform you that 9-13 computers will be fitted in the third year architectural studio in the coming week, with 3 computers already installed since the start of the term. We also plan to receive a printer, scanner and computer with sole access to the internet. As a member of the class, I wish to thank everyone involved in the the fight for the improvement in standards of architectural edudation and facilities in Bolton St. Of course this is only a minor stepping stone towards our goal, but it is extremely reassuring to see some results of our efforts, however small. We have a long way to go, but we WILL get there.

Postby ft101/5 » Sat Oct 14, 2000 7:55 pm

Perhaps computers are a luxury, but desks and space would be nice. (Fifth Year Studio)

What are the views of qualified Architects on the fact that fifth yr. Bolton St. students will be going into practice in eight months time with a less than ideal standard of education.

Postby castrum » Sat Oct 14, 2000 8:51 pm

in reply to ft101/5. which is more important, what you glean from education or what you are spoonfed through education?
if, through a substandard of formal education, you have learned how to think and learn independantly then you are the winner.
when you qualify you can work from the outside for reform, without any fear of reprimand. or will you be that interested once you are finished with the educational system?

Postby Confused » Sun Oct 15, 2000 12:19 am

I am a 2nd year arch. student in Bolton street who is more than aware of the pathetic excuse that is education in this college. However after visiting this site and reading all letters, hopes, asperations, and childish, immature insults I can only conclude that the fight for a realistic standard of education has gotten lost in the struggle for individual glory.
What good are computers with out someone to show us how they work?
What good is the enthusism (xcuse spelling) of younger lecturers if it is the older lecturers who grade the work?
I passed through 1st Year struggling to discover the style of the lecturers so that I could ensure that I would not have to repeat - now in 2nd year I am begining to discover my own style as my battered confidence is slowly rebuilt through the encouragement of my studio lecturers - thank u Eithne Wall
I'm not sure what I hope that we achieve as a student body - but I hope our achievements won't all be isolated to the year that shouts the loudest - as with the computer 'triumph' in the 3RD YEAR studio
Keep up the good work - just please remember that the reforms we demand are supposed to be for everybody - not just to sate those who can howl the loudest

Postby z » Mon Oct 16, 2000 12:22 pm

who's the computor genius in third year that I've heard about ?

Postby duncan » Wed Oct 18, 2000 10:29 am

introduction address form jim horan
asa agm

yesterday at 5.00 was supposed to be the welcoming address from jim, outlining what architecture is about in d.i.t. and then the floor was supposed to be opened for discussion with him.

instead jim gave a quick address, and presented archiwood to us, a nice computer package, then had to run so we dident get to hear his views as a student and staff body. eddie accompanied him. many people were upset with this and voiced their concerns. we had a good discussion, things were outlined by both staff and student alike.
-lack of discussion re direction of architecture, ie sustainable, peaceful, fun world
-facilities, computers, lack of space
need for improvement in communication re
-student student
-student staff
-dit ucd queens
-irish ark students working professional arx
-architects, the public

we had the asa agm
grahem o'sullivan, el presidentè, last years dit su president is this years asa president, definately the best man for the job
there is a commitee of 6 in which i am included

i hope to see a printed and webform newsletter up and running again, ja + c will you email me/ answer here, there might be a ja + c slot?

i am trying to get in contact with ucd and queens to get together on things,
-rish ark students open forum, similar to 2 years ago which i initiated, this time maybe on the direction of architecture
-joint ball

i am continuing to try to get all people discussing real stuff,
is challenging peoples views, trying to promote discussion, experimenting with communication

i believe architecture is about working for a just world
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Postby f9 » Sat Oct 21, 2000 1:59 pm

Duncan, I can't beleive how self satisfied you are. That Meeting was an apalling indictment of the present ASA leadership.For God's sake it was Graham who called that meeting and at no point did he attempt to steer Jh into a discussion.In fact he allowed him to give us a lecture.How either of you have the cheek to stand in front of the student body and complain that it wasn't a discussion is beyond me because it was entirely a sham of your own making.Also,myself and many of my friends found the manner in which you and your associates elected yourself to the committee quite offensive.The lack of a secret ballot and the fact that you bare down on any one who suggests stonger action than paper work meant that most of the group was too intimidated to nominate anyone of their own choosing.Phrases akin to"so,there's no one else who really wants to be nominated is there?" seemed to pop up alot.It has resulted in the same band of people in control,Graham,Duncan,Barry and Caroline,who talk a good game but just don't deliver and who, it seems to me enjoy the sound of their own voices more than anything else.FYI the desks brought up to the 1st year studio were removed this morning.A little tip for Graham and Duncan, you can't be friends with JH and EO'S and get this done right.

Postby e » Sun Oct 22, 2000 4:38 pm

are you a bit pissed cause you didnt get elected?

Postby duncan » Wed Oct 25, 2000 7:25 pm

an idea

f9 will you come up to me and have a chat with me, as i have said before this forum is helpful but anonymity can prevent things happening, raise your voies and state these thoughts publicly, challenge us. the more talk, the more stuff the better

on that note
thursday 6.00 rm 345, bolton st. d.i.t. "the yellow submarine", an animated funny film by the beatles is being shown, everybody is welcome

i have an idea which could be something amazing, we have just had an archiCAD exhibition and chat
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Postby o » Fri Nov 03, 2000 2:15 pm

to see student work from around the world take a look at this riba student awards website

Postby duncan » Wed Nov 22, 2000 4:42 pm


finally we have 6 computers in our studio, one of which is this one with internet access.

yesterday from 1 till @ 2.30 4 lads from 3rd yr gave a slide show and chat of their architectural trip in europe during the summer,
4-6, "weekend" shown by dermot boyd
6-7.30 "open house", ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space, open discussion open to everyone
7.30 art lecture, atelier van lieshout, dutch artist setting up a free state

i put up a post a few days ago to publicize these events but it was taken off, why?

every tuesday evening the crit pit in bolton st. d.i.t. will hold OPEN HOUSE, open to the public, we hope to have duncan stewart, ruari quinn and frank mc donald in along with others
everybody is welcome to this weekly slot

2 years ago was the first "irish architectural students open forum" on ark and education.
we are trying to organize this event every year, swapping venue between the 3 schools every year.
this year we are proposing a theme of "direction, or lack of it in ireland", exploring city sprawl, corruption in politics, peace, sustainability, fun. we are trying to have the event @ mid march and hope to hold it in ucd
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Postby arch_tech_student_bolton » Wed Dec 06, 2000 1:39 am

im a first year technician at bolton street and the likes of solon and crean ha wanna get there act together and people like gaynor should stop lying about lost money and get us desks that wherent to be dumped 3 months ago
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Location: dublin

Postby duncan » Wed Dec 13, 2000 12:33 pm

world revoloution no 3

after the AGRICULTURAL @ 4000 years ago
and the INDUSTRIAL @ 250 years ago
today we are living in the INFORMATION

along with this ireland is for the first time on the other side, in the past people had to go to get jobs
toady ireland is a desirable place to come and live and work

with these 2 huge factors you would think that it would be the most exciting time to be an irish architectural student
how is it then that things are so unactive at the moment, in bolton street anyway
we have got a fair few computers some with internet hook ups, they all should be hooked up, none of them are capable of logging on to this site, could someone tell me why?

things are starting to change though
the first film, "oour barrier" has been mad eand will be shown today at 2.30 in the old kinema
walks and talks have been organized
the ddda have given us the drawings of
stack A
ark week is on and it is getting a little crazy
years 1 2 and 3 are productive
unfortunately year 4 is not contributing or participiting much in school activities
a pity as there is a lot of creative talent
year 5 are busy, thesis time, that is understandable

hopefully now in ark week, things will change and more people will get involved in activities, its fun, its real architecture and it will have a bearing on the rest of your life

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