Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

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Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby cataclyzm » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:03 pm

Given the flexibility of the Greek orders and there mass use during the victorian era in western cities (such as the glasgow tenement), do modern communities offer the same levels of communal integrity and sense of belonging to the people who live there?
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Re: Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby roskav » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:20 pm

Apologies for the flippancy .... but what planet do you come from?
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Re: Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby cataclyzm » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:23 pm

one that actually cares about people and place.......why...which one are you from?
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Re: Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby roskav » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:25 pm

Tramafadore... just visiting....
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Re: Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby alan d » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:37 pm

I'm from Stepney myself .....................a place with felexible Greek orders and reversible goats cheese
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Re: Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby FIN » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:04 pm

no.
personally i think that humans aren't supposed to live too close together...we are better suited to small villages etc.. the fact the tenements u described kind of worked was they sectioned off areas and one could live almost entirely within ur block. now a days ( well in our new estates) the space is too open and the social aspect is hard to achieve. it's like a chicken coup. i find it funny about ballymun in dublin. they knocked apartment blocks and just laid them flat instead of thinking about it. the blame was solely on the block rather than the system. the big excuse they use is that it improved the place and the situatioin of the people trapped there. that's fair enough...but it's only built..how could they possibly know this. it looks well now and maybe brightens peoples aspect for the time being but give it 5 years and the area will be deprived again.
i always think back to when we were hunter-gathers.( i know i am from another planet too but i'm not just visiting..i have come to rule over you puny humans) bands losely organised into clanships. of course the modern approach has to be taken but it is a very good starting point.
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Re: Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby cataclyzm » Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:37 am

I absolutely agree with you. The thing is: that I've seen that village exist within a big city(such as Glasgow/Dublin/Liverpool), where people felt they belonged to one part of a greater whole. Bridgeton or Springburn Main Streets in Glasgow on a Saturday were truly a sight to behold. These districts within a city had life and purpose. I can honestly say that few people even had to venture into the city centre for what they needed(or out of town shopping centre).
I really think we have a prroblem in many of our cities, where so many young people are dissasociated from the past and therefore find it hard to make sense of the future and their part within it. This is especially true in poorer areas where that sense of belonging is so important for that individual sense of accountability and personal responsibility. Unfortunately: this is the legacy of tampering with cohesive and thriving communities that only needed an upgrade rather than wholesale destruction.
The place you mention in Dublin sounds typical of that one dimensional planning, where the village and place of belonging can't sustain itself however new and fresh it may be. There is a fundamental need for humans to work and thrive in that village...and not be reliant on some distant centre which I think is the point you were making about hunting gathering.
But....I'm positive about the future and humanity, just not positive about the people in council, who make these changes and decisions or the companies which help create these new schemes.
I'm still trying to figure out what reversible goats cheese might be.
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Re: Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby cataclyzm » Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:45 am

But...I've always wondered what Basil Spence would have made of the demolishing of his Queen Elizabeth tower blocks in the gorbals in 1993?
My uncle also lived in the Red Road Flats in glasgow, level 14 in all of their 31. the views are something else...but that sense of loneliness is hard to shake. like you're the only person in the world and I'm sure so many people who live in these tower blocks must feel that sense of invisibility and separateness.
It's unfortunate...what innocent and good people must go through in the interests of "progress". But they say there are no mistakes...only lessons to be learned.....!?
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Re: Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby FIN » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:47 pm

the sense of community is very important some social space would promote at least the sense of belonging to a wider community. with tower blocks i think the only way to counteract the loneliness is to have community space on each floor so as to avoid herding the people from the lifts straight to their apartments. this promotes isolation. this would increase the size of them or decrease the amount of apartments we are able to squeeze into them but they would be a lot better.
what do you mean disassociated from the past?
they have some communities in denmark i believe where some principles of community were applied. it is supposed to work quite well, but as i mulled this over in my mind last night, the thought of modern day comviences and the asthetic we would be trying to achieve might not always be compatible. while most can be over came, like satellite dishes can be grouped together and hidden on site, or communal area for clothes lines, this brings the second problem. all it would take is one bad apple to upset the cart. this would lead to a screening process, and who would undertake that?. this leads to some serious p.c. problems. the council here in galway are trying to do a form of this where in the irish speaking areas they have put a condition on planning where native speakers are the only ones allowed to buy. it is causing a lot of concern around here.
but back to the layout. these danish areas are laid out to be similiar to old villages. this is sort of what i was getting at. i don't mean that we shouldn't live in cities and everyone return to villages, but have the feel and sometimes maybe even the appearence of villages. this is to promote better relations between neighbours and therefore happier folk.

this is theory and i can pick holes in it myself butwouldn't it be nice to be able to brighten someones day through our design and give the developer what he wants..
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Re: Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby cataclyzm » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:03 pm

hi,
the language selection process in Galway sounds a bit dodgy. I guess the world has changed a lot Fin from the generation of people I know and remember in glasgow. I'm sure it's the same in Ireland. People's priorities were very different in less materialistic days and money and status weren't such high priorities. The car wasn't the dominant factor in cities and towns as it is nowadays. It seems to be that when people have less, there is a stronger sense of looking out for one another. At least I know this was the case in Glasgow and the places I remember. People I know in Belfast, have similar recollections of their terrace streets. I really do think there was a gentler way of being.
There is so much complexity now in everything...but that is cultural rather than anything to do with architecture. But actually
maybe there is a link in the scale and dimension of buildings from the victorian/edwardian eras. Even the poorest tenements had such generous scale and proportion as if they were made with a little thought and consideration. If you compare the ordinary buildings from that time, they seemed to welcome you into them. They had substance and clout and even a simple and classical beauty. But life changes.....
I survived the high rise flats! So, there is hope....
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Re: Is Classical architecture now a post modern cliche?

Postby cataclyzm » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:10 pm

incidentally...to answer your question. In speaking about disconnection from the past. I was referring to the erasure of whole districts of Glasgow that once existed and now only the motorway flyover exists. These places had a proud and strong identity.
you often find fascinating fragments of evidence that they once existed as you walk around glasgow.

I don't know if you'd be interested, but Glasgow Mitchell library have a fascinating database of images of each district of Glasgow. some of the pictures are incredible and date back to the 19th century and also include the mammoth building projects/demolishings of the 1960's. http://www.mitchelllibrary.org

all the best
rkelly
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