new euro 2004

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new euro 2004

Postby maximus_arq » Wed Nov 20, 2002 7:38 pm

I think that rita will not be a god moderator, because her architecture stinks!!!
Euro 2004!!! In your dreams baby!!!
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Wed Nov 20, 2002 7:41 pm

?
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Postby maximus_arq » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:04 pm

OK...i was jokking, Rita is the correct person to be moderating a forum about 2004' euro...good luck rita, and keep going...on, and on...
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Postby maximus_arq » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:05 pm

...and on...and on...and on.....like your speaches....
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:05 pm

Thanks or "obrigado" who ever you are
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Postby maximus_arq » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:07 pm

So..why do you think that Portugues government has aproved 10 stadiums if 6 could be enough?
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:17 pm

In my opinion 6 stadiums would be enough because our stadiums are never full and the maintence of such building is a huge cost for our clubs and cities. But anyway, we live on a country of dreamers and the improvement of security and confort conditions can bring more people to watch the matches in the future.
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Postby maximus_arq » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:21 pm

What future matches will be expected in Leira, Faro, Aveiro, Coimbra stadiums in the future??? I think it was simply marketing...and i hope not to dunk portugal's fragile economy
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:31 pm

You are talking about the smaller stadiums (about 30 000 seats) that are more flexible then the bigger ones wich will host the open and final of the Euro 2004.
I'm not sure about the owners plans for these smaller buildings but they can learn a lot from the experiences of USA or the Nerthlands, where their stadiums are also used to organize music concerts, plays, parties, big conferences, boats and cars showrooms, other sports events (even Kart racing!), etc. That way these buildings might "survive"...
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Postby maximus_arq » Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:16 pm

lets all hope so...but...there is another big problem...the fact of the lack of investors and investiments in the areas that u refer...do you remember the last time that a famous group or event like took place in portugal in other place than the atlantic pavillion??? i think the future for those stadiums will be, in this global economy scenery, small athletic meetings, the sub-20 and younger's natinal teams...but that...will never bring money for their survival...so...the government will have to give more, and more money...as much as the portuguese people like....
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:47 pm

Our old prime minister once said:

"The Portugal of today is a thoroughly modern and developed country, with strong economic growth, investment and progress.

As host of the last Universal Exhibition of both the century and the millennium, EXPOí98, was a symbol of our ability, modernity and dynamism, and also a reflection of our national identity, based on a natural empathy with other races and cultures. Here, millions of people from around the World were received with the traditionally Portuguese hospitality and warmth.

In 2004, we wish to demonstrate this hospitality and warmth once again, as organisers of the European Football Championship. We have all that is needed - the facilities, the enthusiasm, and above all, the passion. We thoroughly enjoy football. Above all, we thoroughly enjoy playing host you.
Welcome to Portugal."
( http://www.fpf.pt/euro2004/ )

Did you vote on this guy ? ;)
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Postby maximus_arq » Fri Nov 22, 2002 5:56 pm

and that has add anything to what i said????
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:03 pm

"modern and developed country, with strong economic growth, investment and progress" ??? to have 10 "new" stadiums ?!
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Postby maximus_arq » Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:44 pm

what country are you refering???lol
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Postby MaximusColumnus » Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:54 pm

If nothing else, the mere building of the stadiums will boost the economy. The Portuguese building trade (the labour end of it) had suffered a downturn recently (as indeed had most of europe). The labour generated by the stadiums will in turn generate taxes and suck funds that would normally be left in a corporate/club bank account back into the public sector.

Once up and running, the high profile the country will receive from Euro 2004 (and it *will* attract a phenominal amount of advertising investment) will serve to showcase the stadiums. Also the management system for hosting events in these smaller stadiums will be in place and tested thoroughly, encouraging future events to be held there as a cheaper alternative to Lisbon, Porto etc.

As for a fragile economy, I doubt that. Portugal has a highly skilled (if somewhat overly specialised) labour supply and a low cost of labour. It also has huge potential for economic, social and technological growth (I know portugal is up there with most other countries but it has never really experienced the IT boom that gives tech to each and every business - as an example, check out how many of portugal's banks offer secure server transaction hosting). Portugal has kept a steady and strong pace in growth terms, unlike much of europe that skyrocketed and sucked up foreign investment only to have the world go to s**t as industries and financial institutions all took the opportunity presented by Sept. 11th to cut overheads without attracting the inevitable investor lack of confidence (everyone thought "well, htey do have good reason") as well as US foreign investment being siphoned back to the US, further crippling previously strong economies. -anyway, enough economics.

I agree that ten stadiums is a bit extravagant but if marketed right they could be a huge asset to the "smaller" and less developed areas of Portugal. Improving tourism, investment and serving as an economic incentive for these towns to grow and aid in decentralisation.
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Postby MaximusColumnus » Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:56 pm

wow, that was longwinded :)

sorry!
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Postby maximus_arq » Fri Nov 22, 2002 7:51 pm

The main problem of the Euro 2004 is not the Euro itself, but the future 5,10 or 15 years post Euro. I think the main problem to be solved is the performance of that kind of structure to improve our economy. I agree with the opinion that the portuguese workers resource is as higher than the rest of europe, but the spirit that leads our politicians has a lack of future vision. that is is the problem. I think that is the main problem. The lack of future vision of the politics.
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Postby MaximusColumnus » Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:41 pm

In reply to you r doubts about politicians having foresight, I would think that their actions show a distinct effort to plan for the future.

The huge government expenditure on road infrastructure and now the investment in outlying communities (those not directly accessible like Lisbon) gives focus to sites outside of the major population centres amking them accessible and providing amenities. Rural depopulation occurs when businesses are attracted to the cities mainly due to availability of transport, hte poelpe move to the city to get jobs and to improve their standard of living. Investment in the more rural areas will help curtail this population move by a: showing a promise of growth in the rural areas and b: making them accessible for companies. If companies can access decent transport they will be more likely to settle outside of the major urban areas due to lower costs and overheads (wages can be less as they do not have to provide for the heightened cost of living, premises are cheaper, parking spaces for employees is easier to provide, government incentives can be applied for) which offset the cost of operating outside the main business locations. The presence of the stadium as a social centre will help to attract workers to these areas (ok, the stadium alone won't do it) as amenities are available. Workers = jobs = more workers = investment in local government through company capital investment, local rates taxes, sales taxes, expenditure by the workforce in the community.

An example of this can be found in Leixlip in Ireland. Located about 25km outside of dublin city centre, leixlip was a complete hole. If you drove through it you would miss it if you blinked. Intel set up a plant there as it was close enough to a population centre and to a college. Since Intel arrived, Leixlip has boomed. As well as this the surrounding towns have also had an influx of workers (it is worth noting that this is not the governments doing, Intel themselves put up most of the money for road and infrastructure improvements to leixlip). Now, Hewlett Packard ahve opened a plant nearby as they were attracted by the large educated and young workforce available in the area - a workforce that was attracted by Intel in the first place. there is of course the danger that should intel or HP leave the entire area will collapse due to lack of government intervention or support.

If the portuguese government undertakes a program of social improvement to build on the prestige and advertisement generated by the placement of the stadiums, companies will set up shop and in turn educate and train a workforce that will attract other companies. This will generate a healthy economy for the area and take pressure off the government to support the area through capital loans and funding streams.

Should this be undertaken, I would have to say that the politicians will have shown a great degree of insight and forward planning that many countries in the EU would do well to emulate. The expenditure now will be more than repaid in savings when the local areas are self sufficient and not draining money from the economy - but instead generating taxes and revenues that can be added to the country's budgeted expenditure to develope the next area.
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Postby MaximusColumnus » Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:42 pm

ah sh*t! I really have to learn how to stop typing....
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:55 pm

yeah... your nick fits you right, lol !
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:09 pm

Too many stadiums for 2004?

http://www.soccernet.com/europe/news/2002/1017/20021017stadiums.html


For who is also interested in stadiums here are your main info sources:
http://www.worldstadiums.com
http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com


Some more "home-made" web sites with some information about the portuguese stadiums:
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/euro2004site/
http://come.to/the_euro2004/
http://tugas.do.sapo.pt/estadios/index_estadios.htm
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