Football - Euro 2004

World architecture... what's happening generally....

Football - Euro 2004

Postby Rita Ochoa » Mon Oct 29, 2001 8:38 pm

Football fans and/or architects:
Portugal is having the Euro 2004 wich will be played all around the country. For that we are building 5 new stadiums and fully refurbishing another 5. http://www.fpf.pt/euro2004/index.html will give you an idea of whats happening, concerning architecture and capacities. I would like to know your opinion...
You can find an english version there.(sorry for the bad graphic design and pictures but i couldn´t find a better site!!!)


[This message has been edited by Rita Ochoa (edited 29 October 2001).]
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Postby John Callery » Wed Oct 31, 2001 5:40 pm

Please explain to us in Ireland how Portugal can accomplish so much in so short a time, we’ll be lucky to have 2 tram lines finished by 2004. I must say I was so impressed by the ultra modern architecture of the Parc de Nations (over looking the Tagus) on a visit to Lisbon this summer past.

The Aquarium building, the Sports Arena (+ huge soccer ball) etc all magnificent modern architecture. The Vasca de Gama shopping centre and its dramatic metro station. The water cooled glazing and restaurants of the Vaca de Gama centre and some floors partly carpeted !! The water features, play areas for children the length of the Parc and the ski-type lifts circulating the Parc have to be experienced. Most buildings in the Parc having a nautical feature and celebrating Portugal’s heroes but nothing to the great Eusebio in the sports arena !! I found this a great surprise. This notable omission must be rectified by 2004.

Will be back to sample the old city (Place de Bombal & Alfama District) and the new again. The RIAI are holding their annual conference in Lisbon this very month (November 7th – 11th) those members fortunate to attend are in for a real architectural and cultural treat. The Columbo Centre should also be visited especially at lunch time for its huge choice of global / ethnic restaurants. Is there a web site on the Parc de Nations ?

Obrigada.
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Wed Oct 31, 2001 7:15 pm

I can´t really explain how come Portugal is building so much because our economy isn´t exactly great right now. However the quality of what is being build is rising a lot, considiring the urban problems, architecture in general and rehabilitation of old buildings. Maybe what is missing is showing it to the world (because Portugal is not just Alvaro Siza!!!).

Parque das Nações http://www.parquedasnacoes.pt/ ) is a really good exemple of something that was planned and construted very fast (but the web site is not graet). The process was amazing and i have to tell you that we were very lucky with the result. I also think that Parque das Nações schould be a case study for all who are involded in Dublin Docklands area (housing, offices, urban design, sustanainable arch., etc.).
But I have to tell you that the "Sports Arena (+ huge soccer ball)" is a multifuncional pavillion and soccer is not played there at all. Is mostly used for plays, live concerts, conferences, tenis, etc. About the Eusebio monument, it´s placed just in front of the Luz Stadium, in Benfica just next to the Colombo shopping center. There´s no point on placing it next to multifuncional pavillion in Parque da Nações.
In this area you can also find a very nice irish pub... Image

The Colombo Center is a good exemple of a huge shopping center but going there just to have lunch might not be best choice... try to stay in the downtown and go to the small but lovely restaurants.
Anyway if you go to this shopping center you can see, on the other side of the road, the Eusebio statue (him scoring a goal!!), the old Luz Stadium (120 000 places!!) and the constrution site of the new one...

Another suggestion: a trip on the subway would be nice because all our subway stations were build or re-build on the last 3 years by our "best" architects like Siza (Chiado station), Tomás Taveira (Olaias station), etc. All stations also include art works made by famous portuguese designers and artists.
The site http://www.metrolisboa.pt/index_uk.htm or http://www.tramways.com/subways/lisbon/index.html will give you a help on the paths and the stations. Again... the web sites are not great.

Anyway anyone told me yet what thinks about the stadiums i´m showing you...

Wish you all a very nice trip and i´ll be online for any help you need.

PS: the shopping center you visited is Vasco da Gama and not "vaca da Gama"... Vaca means cow in portuguese...lol


[This message has been edited by Rita Ochoa (edited 01 November 2001).]
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Postby John Callery » Thu Nov 01, 2001 11:00 am

Obrigada Rita, indeed one could not show to Irish architects and planners a better example for how a river side site should be developed with magnificient public, business facilities and large open public spaces restaurants and bars. I would skip the Irish bar, £27 for a few sardines for two and a bottle of wine.

Well done Portugal "slow economy and all".

The infrastructure of Lisbon is another great example of how things can be done right. Old trams still running after 100 years,frequent new super trams the incredible elvevator trams (great tourist attraction)and your super underground system built so quickly and so well.

Needless to say your fooball stadiums are a pure delight each one "a stadium of light" and pack a great experience and the proposed ones for 2004 will certainly be built and on time. I have seen the statue of the great Eusebio opposite Luz, I still maintain another should be built to stand alongside the bold Vasco (sorry about Vasca / Vaca I had an old cow for a teacher doing the Inter').

I would also recommend that Dublin Corporation hold a convention in Lisbon to see its modern achievments and renovations /preservation of its old city.

Again Obrigada, say hello for me to all the friendly people out in Cascais.
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Thu Nov 01, 2001 11:37 am

£27 for a few sardines for two and a bottle of wine is a lot!!

Our trams, running from more then 100 years, more then a touristic atraction, are a real transport in the city, used by thousands everyday. The new ones look nice but, as curiosaty, are only drived by women (the company went in trouble for this - discrimination- don´t do the same error). The problem of trams is the traffic in the city (a caos all day!!!). The subway system is a good alternative but things would go better if they made it bigger...

About the statiums, I really thing that 10 or 12 statiums built according to the UEFA regulations is to much!! I don´t know what will we do with all these after the EURO 2004 because society won´t change and statiums only be full on major games like what happens now. Tourism and attached shopping centers will not save them I think. Anyway, really nice architecture is being produced like the Braga Stadium (by Eduardo Souto de Moura), the Sporting Stadium (by Tomás Taveira) and the Oporto Stadium... Anyway if you get lucky, you will be seeing Ireland playing on this "massive stages", that in case of football, converted from architecture to tv sets.

PS: I´m from Cascais and it´s not "obrigada", but obrigado (I assume you are a guy)




[This message has been edited by Rita Ochoa (edited 01 November 2001).]
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Postby John Callery » Thu Nov 01, 2001 12:02 pm

I'm a guy / bloke OK otherwise I would never get served (along with me mates) in the bar of The Black Lion on Emmet Road, Inchicore, Dublin 8.

Slan agus Gur Amaith Agat.
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Thu Nov 01, 2001 12:17 pm

Slan agus Gur Amaith Agat ?

Goodbye and thankyou ?...

I think i know the pub... I only have been in Ireland / Dublin 3 times... can´t memorize all the pub´s names!!!

Women say Obrigada and men say Obrigado.



[This message has been edited by Rita Ochoa (edited 01 November 2001).]
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Postby Ines Passos » Fri Nov 02, 2001 5:37 am

i also think that we are building to many stadiums in portugal, specialy if we think of the size of this country!... but look at expo and see what it has became! i know it is not the best example to use but wewere also afraid about what would happen to that big space after expo is over... and it is great or almost great. maybe it will be good for some of the main cities ina way that the stadiums will "call" several events that we are not ready to have them now... and i don't know about them all but i have the impression that the have more facilities beside de football field itself... things like cinemas and shoopings... and other things that will probably be good for turism and it will definetly help some of the cities to grouw
anyway... i have been to the last 2000 in holand and i have seen the amount of people you gather in one city or even country... all the pubs were crouwded, the streets full of people and of course no space in hotels at all! and it is allways great to watch a good football match!
ciau
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Postby John Callery » Fri Nov 02, 2001 12:31 pm

Rita / Ines,

Could you inform me briefly about one particular building within the Parque whose elevation toward the Tagus was finished in a jig saw pattern of glass blocks angled in many directions. It was most impressive (like all the buildings) especially when viewed from the ski-type lifts which circle the Parque.

The Parque is a most unique and seemingly successful development. How was the development financed and was it considered an “urban renewal project” with tax breaks for developers etc. It certainly can be called “a mixed development”. When was it planned and how long did it take to complete ?

Obrigado.
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Fri Nov 02, 2001 7:14 pm

Inês, I also think we are building to many stadiums in Portugal and don´t forget that a great part of that investiment comes from the goverment, i mean, our taxes. Sport schouldn´t go over other social and urgent issues in our country, but then... we elected them.
Football stadia have now a very big compititor wich is called TV. If you don´t improve the media, players and public conditions, people will stop going to this "catedrals of sport". The "Disneyland" concept is being sucessfly applied outside the country, i mean, the idea that you can go to watch a live football game, leave your kids at the cinema or bowling and, if your wife doens´t enjoys the sport, she can also go shopping. After the game they all go to have dinner, pick up the car at the underground payed park and go home. They spend more time together and they spend more money, helping the team or city that owns the stadium to pay for it...
And also, don´t forget that a staium is used 1 or 2 times a week, so some extra shops, payed parking inside the city, a sophisticaded museum, guided tours, etc. will help to improve conditions and matunention. It will also stop these buildings from being huge empty boxes in the cities. We have enough of that right now!

John, I think the building you are talking about is the Lisbon International Exposition Pavillion (F.I.L.) with this "kind" of descontrutivist language, insn´t it? The glass part you are talking about is just the entrance, because this 1 floor building is huge. It´s mostly used for conferences, mettings (I had some there) and busniness expositions and fairs (fashion, cars, sports, etc.)

And suprise yourself: The Parque inicial urban design competitions began in 1990! The site was a place for factories, radioactive stuff, huge gasoline deposits, etc... (the worst you can image!)
The constrution started around 1995! The Parque was ready in 1998 (for the world exposition). In 1999 the housing and other buildings started constrution. 2001 everything is not ready yet but next year we will get there... That´s why I say we were lucky with this project.
A few marks of the past were left there like the "gasoline tour" in the South of the park, converted into a walk path and restaurant.
Portugal din´t want to do the same error that Spain with the Sevilla world exposition, leaving that place, after the event. I think we have managed it very well, even turning it into a tourist landmark (you and other thousands went there already). Also thousands of people work there everyday and at weekends the car parking is not enough for those who want to go for a walk, play bowling, shopping, go to see a movie, have dinner or rest in the green park. The nightlife is also great with all the pubs, bars, discos, raves, life concerts, etc.
The main theme of the exposition was the OCEANS and you can see how cleary that was left in the urban design (water games, colours, etc.). The sustainable issues were also a very big consideration since the beggining.
If you are so interested, I can give you the names of a few good books about all the process (in english, of course).
About who payed... well we all did. It´s a goverment urban renewal project as you say but some money also came from the private authoryties that are placed there (the big companies, etc.). But the organisition of the area is made trough a semi-private company (Parque Expo). I´m afraid I don´t know the numbers and the full process but I can surely find out meanwhile...

I´m glad you liked the project so much.


PS: if you want, someday I can also describe you the "bad" aspects of that "urban renewal project"... Image



[This message has been edited by Rita Ochoa (edited 02 November 2001).]
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Postby Mafalda Ramalho » Fri Nov 02, 2001 7:39 pm

Rita and John, I can help u finding info about all that... there are same books too, i'll try to find out the names for u!!
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Fri Nov 02, 2001 8:00 pm

Thanks Mafalda but, SINCE YOU ARE BESIDE ME ALL DAY AT THE OFFICE, you can give me that information personaly Image ... lol

[This message has been edited by Rita Ochoa (edited 02 November 2001).]
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Postby Ines Passos » Fri Nov 02, 2001 8:16 pm

rita
you are always beside me also and you didn't answer me personally... you prefer to wrote it! Image
anyway... does anyone knows what happened to the hannover expo and how it is being used now? when i went there last year i had the impression that they would have the same problem that they had in spain... a ghost a city! i don't know how it is now but if you know (mafalda, rita or john) tell me about it.
and i have to say that our expo 98 was a lot better then expo 2000! Image
obrigado/a

[This message has been edited by Ines Passos (edited 02 November 2001).]
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Postby John Callery » Fri Nov 09, 2001 11:42 am

Rita, thanks for the info’ on the FIL building it was my favourite within the Parque.

Rita / Mafalda, I would appreciate your advice on “the names of a few good books about the process”.

Well you can relax this weekend as Portugal are already through to World Cup 2002. We have to hammer Iran (hopefully!!) tomorrow in a very frosty Dublin before meeting them in a “very dry” Tehran for the 2nd leg. They reckon they have Allah on their bench, please God we’ll have Roy Keane on the field.

Let the games commence !!

Obrigado.
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Fri Nov 09, 2001 5:45 pm

Well John... I´m not really a football fan, even that I´m very related to one of the stadium projects... To be honest I really don´t like football but I understand the crowds and money that it moves all around the world. For all that I wish that Ireland scores these next games. All the luck for you, even without a player like Figo
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Postby fanta » Tue Nov 13, 2001 4:23 pm

ines
you had ze's house to watch all those matches what more did you need!
live atmosphere, food, beer supporters!!
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Postby Ines Passos » Tue Nov 13, 2001 5:23 pm

hi fanta
who are you?
of course the spirit we had in ze's house helped alot but it would be better if we had win! Image
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Postby Rita Ochoa » Mon May 06, 2002 8:32 pm

New information (also in english):
http://www.portugal2004.pt/
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