glasgow bridge comp. submissions

World architecture... what's happening generally....

Postby John O » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:48 pm

I understand that there is some public controversy/outcry, general hullabaloo etc, regarding the bridge choice. Where would I be able to read some of this stuff? Are the council getting grief?
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Postby kvetner » Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:16 pm

Most of what I've seen has been letters in the Herald e.g.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/5475.html
http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/5583.html
http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/5665.html
(There are some more in the attachment below, because I can't find a link to them on the Herald's website any more)

Also some news stories:

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/5680.html
http://www.news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1285392003

I think it's fair to say that much of this criticism would have been the same whichever bridge had won!

(Note: I think the attachment only works on MS Internet Explorer).
Attachments
the herald 2003-nov-24 letters.zip
(47.67 KiB) Downloaded 294 times
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Postby John O » Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:32 pm

Thanks for that. Fosters/Rogers confusion particularly amusing.
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Postby rant » Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:38 am

Mother? I thought it was you, in another user name. I should mention, all the other entrees are me with different log in names... except for you (Alan), ICE T (you again (?)) and of course Pepe.

Now, I could be wrong but I read sw101's page 3 "nice efforts pepe" as nice try but rather standard, corporate, etc.
It is true that the computer is only a tool, intrinsically no less (or more) powerful than the pen. BUT it is a shame to think that the power in the CGI is in its ability to be "essentially a photograph". This is simply a seduction. This tool can teach us different things than the pen (or simply gloss) and we must learn to use it as a means of exploration. Then we will be somewhere with this tool. The act of representation is a process, this is often incorporated into drawing. But the ease (relative ease) of making a computer image look salable, has kept us from exploring it's possibilities to inform the process, and instead we simply re-present... as seen by Pepe's claim to the images but disavowal of the design.
Porn is not a woman and teaches us nothing about sex, CGI are not photos of a building and when used, or conceived as such, teach us nothing about design.
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Postby alan d » Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:46 am

Sorry, I am pepe and Hugh and John O and Ice T but not my mother.......that would be too weird. Not Kvetner either think that's the council nor space invader, far too complimentary, no one would believe it .

But thanks s.i. really, really appreciate it. Thanks also Ice T and give my regards to Paisley.

Or is it just you and me here then, in cyberspace, Rant? Did the bridge really. happen?
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Postby John O » Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:18 am

Hmmm. The porn analogy is a little rubbish. Surely explicit images inform something about sex? Similarly, the act of representation informs design - otherwise you would never bother to make models, draw or sketch. Bit of a ridiculous argument really.
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Postby alan d » Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:29 am

.........did'nt read that far, I admit John O. The who's who threw me. Bye the way who are you? Hope your not pepe or SW101. I've been round the office and no one's owning up either to Ice T?

Thought the "drawn manifesto" bit from earlier was utterly brilliant though, even if I say so herself . Must remember it and use it when I can.
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Postby John O » Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:57 am

It all sounds very local, Alan. Is everyone from the same office? I'm in London.
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Postby what? » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:16 pm

i am paul clerkin
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Postby John O » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:17 pm

I'm Spartacus.
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Postby alan d » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:19 pm

That's the way it is up here John, living in each others pockets. Small architectural community but vocal and strident. Who the hell Rant is though is a mystery.

The Exhibition at the Lighthouse on the weekend of opening was full and it was Future System's People's Way that seemed to be attracting the public attention

The feeling is strong enough though and dead straight as I think you must've gathered from the cuttings that were sent to you, by someone from the Council, I think.
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Postby alan d » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:22 pm

No, I'm Spartacus
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Postby sw101 » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:26 pm

I am Keyser Söze
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Postby John O » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:33 pm

Its certainly nice to hear people shoot the architectural breeze online: I don't think you could really generate a similar interest in London.
Its interesting that Future System's People's Way was creating public response - both negative and positive I am sure. Would you say the process left you with an overall negative feeling about such competitions, Alan?
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Postby alan d » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:49 pm

I think we have to work twice as hard in Glasgow to make an impact John and frankly believe that clients here would rather award an important public commission to an international architects third team, than to a Scots or Glaswegian architect.

My partner and I started by believing you can compete for work through out the UK from a base in the West Of Scotland and to a certain degree we have been successful.

The competition for the bridge though has left me wondering seriously if you can run an "international" practice 400 miles from London
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Postby John O » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:21 pm

I understand your point, Alan. It certainly seems as thought the council simply gravitated to the Rogers name.
Another fault in the judging process has to be the public consultation: this has become an increasingly popular way for councils especially to shirk their responsibility for backing up grandiose briefs.
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Postby what? » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:34 pm

that goes back to the old argument, do the general public really know whats good for them? is a public vote a way of tying down architects from designing for themselves or each other, or is it a load of idealistic rubbish that negates all the skill and traning of the architect? id tend to say its the latter. i really hope 'public voting' on competitions isnt brought in too much in the future or it will reduce our profession to a load of clapping sealions.
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Postby alan d » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:37 pm

To a certain extent I understand the Council's point of view, it helps them if they have a known name attached to their most important regeneration project. A name that will be recognised abroad, when so much is at stake financially. Ice T is right also, Studio Bernardski, who he? Although their butterfly wings proposal was the public choice as far as I could tell from the comments I overheard.

Every one knew really who was the author of each project.

The reason I am interested in Archeire apart from Paul being a decent bloke who has promised me a pint when I'm next in Dublin, is an attempt to switch the centre of architectural gravity away from London to the North. To Glasgow and Dublin in a kind of Celtic Connection, which is why I first got involved in the Forum.

Public Architecture in Eire is outstanding, in my view. Though Dubliners, like Glaswegians don't always think so, eh Paul?
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Postby space_invader » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:07 pm

yeah - it's really good to get some decent online architectural discussion. The tech and software communities are virtually well versed -so should we be. And Alan - great idea about shifting the base away from london town - even if it is in placeless cyberspace (the idea that we're all stored in a server in Dublin is suitably ridiculous)

problem with the public consultation thing: it was based on image - ionic eyecandy.

That's not how we should be encouraging the public to engage with architectural proposals.
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Postby John O » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:10 pm

I would not necessarily agree with London as the perceived centre of architectural gravity - I would be much more inclined to identify the international architectural cabal as those that hold sway over council judging panels. Plenty of london practises don't get a look in.
Although I agree that the public consultation must be abolished, as it is ludicrous to allow professional practitioners to exert design skills, only to be undermined by the general public. Do you think they would ever challenge a new airliner design, for instance, in the same fashion?
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Postby what? » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:24 pm

i always liken it to the public having a say in how best we carry out surgery or medical research as they know roughly the same amount about those things (the problem is that they think they know everything about architecture because they are surrounded by it everyday) ahh the arrogance!
the problem is these laurence lewellen bastards have bred a culture of (although possibly more interested) dangerously ill-informed "designers", who think that wilful application of fabric and mdf constitute high design. aka anyone can do that! why do we need architects. how about a do-it-yourself liver transplant show?
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Postby space_invader » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:24 pm

spin off threads ahoy:

public consultation and design involvement

can one run an international UK based practice outside London?

communicating built form: pens, pixels and pictures

this thread has been working hard.
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Postby proun » Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:02 pm

“The bridge, an elliptical crescent, was the unanimous choice of the judging panel and was also the public’s favourite when it was recently displayed with models of the rival bridge designs”.
http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/html/council/cindex.htm

assume this is correct.
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Postby space_invader » Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:22 pm

apparently so. I read an article in Project Scotland in which the exhibitions manager at the ligthouse confirmed this to be the case.
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Postby alan d » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:43 pm

http://www.murraydunloparchitects.com/prac_home.htm


Yes, the elliptical design was the unanimous choice S. I and Proun.

Before we consign it to the bin marked " if only" home movies of our Tradeston Bridge proposals are now on our website, if your interested. We've taken some time so the quality off the site should still be good
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