New Scottish Parliament

World architecture... what's happening generally....

Postby space_invader » Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:17 pm

was it nicholas glass reporting?

that numpty (nice tho he seems to be) likes everything.

some critic.
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Postby phil » Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:48 pm

Cannot remember who it was reporting. I was just interested in the flashy shots of the interior under construction! It was criticising its cost and it was also one of those reports that goes up to people on the street asking them what they think.
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Postby FIN » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:18 am

i am going having a look next monday. i pretty excited about it.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:00 pm

Holyrood inquiry ‘will lead to boring buildings’ warns architecture critic
Sunday Herald

The Fraser Inquiry into the cost of the Holyrood parliament has been a flawed exercise that will intimidate a generation of Scottish architects into avoiding creative risks. In the week that politicians and staff begin to move into the £431 million parliament, Charles Jencks, an international architectural author and critic has accused the Fraser Inquiry – set up to investigate into the spiralling cost of construction – of being incapable of evaluating the project architecturally or financially. Writing in the Sunday Herald, Jencks compares the Fraser Inquiry to “junior accountants at Christie’s, and a few assistant artists, asked to value an Anthony Caro sculpture when it was half-complete and covered in scaffolding and tarpaulins”.

http://www.sundayherald.com/43928
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:50 pm

this made me laugh....
Scotland on Sunday - Jan 9




Holyrood horror


FORGIVE me for being just a little cranky, but I have to say the Scottish Parliament building in Edinburgh has to be about the least-pleasing piece of architecture I've ever seen.

The building looks as if it's been through the Blitz, and somehow, someone managed to find enough patching materials to close up the holes. Other parts of it look unfinished.

Whoever designed that building should be sued, then the money gained could be put toward redesigning a beautiful building.

Lora Cline, Arizona, US
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby cataclyzm » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:15 pm

well,

Please allow me to laugh my hat off at the sheer ludicrousness of this vile project and the resulting edifice which has appeared on the landscape of edinburgh.
If only people from a kinder age could leave their opinions to this structure and its resulting "problems". Once again: ego wins over human kindness and decency. Welcome to the world of modern architecture.

robertkelly.
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:32 pm

bad poetry alert....


Open the Doors!




Open the doors! Light of the day, shine in;
light of the mind, shine out!
We have a building which is more than a building.

There is a commerce between inner and outer,
between brightness and shadow,
between the world and those who think about the world.

Is it not a mystery? The parts cohere, they come together
like petals of a flower,
yet they also send their tongues outward
to feel and taste the teeming earth.

Did you want classic columns and predictable pediments?
A growl of old Gothic grandeur? A blissfully boring box?

Not here, no thanks! No icon, no IKEA, no iceberg,
but curves and caverns, nooks and niches,
huddles and heavens syncopations and surprises.

Leave symmetry to the cemetery.
But bring together slate and stainless steel,
black granite and grey granite,
seasoned oak and sycamore,
concrete blond and smooth as silk –
the mix is almost alive – it breathes and beckons –
imperial marble it is not!

Come down the Mile, into the heart of the city,
past the kirk of St Giles and the closes and wynds
of the noted ghosts of history who drank their claret
and fell down the steep tenements stairs
into the arms of link-boys
but who wrote and talked the starry Enlightenment of their days –

And before them the auld makars
who tickled a Scottish king’s ear with melody
and ribaldry and frank advice –

And when you are there, down there, in the midst of things,
not set upon an hill with your nose in the air,
This is where you know your parliament should be
And this is where it is, just here.

What do the people want of the place?
They want it to be filled with thinking persons
as open and adventurous as its architecture.

A nest of fearties is what they do not want.
A symposium of procrastinators is what they do not want.
A phalanx of forelock-tuggers is what they do not want.
And perhaps above all the droopy mantra of 'it wizny me'
is what they do not want.

Dear friends, dear lawgivers, dear parliamentarians,
you are picking up a thread of pride and self-esteem
that has been almost but not quite, oh no not quite,
not ever broken or forgotten.

When you convene you will be reconvening,
with a sense of not wholly the power,
not yet wholly the power,
but a good sense of what was once in the honour of your grasp.

All right. Forget, or don’t forget, the past.
Trumpets and robes are fine,
but in the present and the future you will need something more.

What is it? We, the people, cannot tell you yet,
but you will know about it when we do tell you.

We give you our consent to govern, don’t pocket it and ride away.
We give you our deepest dearest wish to govern well,
don’t say we have no mandate to be so bold.

We give you this great building,
don’t let your work and hope be other than great
when you enter and begin.

So now begin. Open the doors and begin.

- Edwin Morgan
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby phil » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:30 pm

You are right Paul.

That is truly sick. And I only got down to about the tenth line!
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Hugh » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:28 pm

:eek: Simply brilliant. William McGonagall lives. Where was it published?
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Paul Clerkin » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:53 pm

In The Scotsman
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Boyler » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:33 pm

I prefer the Government Buildings in Dublin. The Scottish Parliament gives me a headache whenever I see it. :mad:
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:48 pm

Holyrood old hat


The luvvies of the architectural world may have taken it into their heads to shower BAFTA-type awards on the dysfunctional concrete confection we know as Holyrood, but the poor souls delude themselves if they really believe the most noble order of the emperor's new clothes proves that its architecture is in some sense revolutionary and ground-breaking.

Despite the post-modern baroque dressage, there is much that is banal 60s retro behind the flashy bling of think-bubbles, tack-on skating ministers, and bent bamboo spirtles which now dominate one of the most sensitive world heritage sites in northern Europe.

The claim of originality should certainly not be taken at face value. As you report (30 May) there is undoubtedly a relationship between the undulating roof of the Santa Caterina market in Barcelona and the lenticular "upturned boat" formula used on the Scottish Parliament building, yet the device is hardly a unique Miralles-Tagliabue signature idea.

Indeed, it is entirely derivative, having been pioneered in Barcelona a century ago by that master of the parabolic curve, Antoni Gaudi.

Gaudi's twin-courtyard Cása Milá takes undulation to extremes on its wrap-around facades and curvilinear roof. His nearby Casa Batilo is famous for its humped "slain dragon" scale-tiled roof.

This latter reference to the legend of St George is, of course, particularly apposite in Holyrood's case, given Lord Robertson's belief that the point of devolution was to "kill nationalism stone dead".

Unfortunately, the visible evidence of what is essentially an RMJM re-interpretation of that transplanted Catalonian iconographic reference seems to have rendered the early lyricism of Miralles' winning entry equally defunct.

DAVID J BLACK
Ann Street
Edinburgh


http://news.scotsman.com/archive.cfm?id=606582005
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:49 pm

Holyrood stand-off


IT WAS interesting to read Peter Wilson's comments last week regarding the nascent architectural recognition of the Scottish Parliament ('No prizes for punctuality, but Holyrood beats all comers again for architecture,' News, May 29).

For me, the building epitomises the eternal stand-off between the architectural profession and the general public. On the one hand we see well-deserved plaudits for a building which is truly outstanding in terms of its quality, scale and complexity. On the other we have much criticised cost over-runs for exactly the same reasons.

Who said good design doesn't cost money?

Colin Gordon, ARIAS, Edinburgh
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby alan d » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:23 pm

This is a building that is truly hated by lots of people in Scotland, much more so than any I can rememeber and not just by nationalists or the usual list of detractors and I get the impression that that bitterness is increasing, not diminishing.

I think it is beginning to damage the profession in Scotland, the more awards it stacks up

It's a building that is hard to explain for architects in Scotland even for those who love it and there are not many who will now come out in support. I find it hard to understand it myself its seems wilful and overtly complex, neelessly over detailed , solving all the problems of its own making but at the same time engrossing
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby alan d » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:28 pm

This is not an untypical piece from commentators, from yesterday's Sunday Times


The Sunday Times - Scotland



June 05, 2005

Restless Native: Fiona McCade: Architect with a prize imagination



We might hate it, but rumour has it that someone in the Royal Institute of British Architects loves the Scottish parliament building so much, they are intending to nominate it for this year’s prestigious Stirling prize.
Now Benedetta Tagliabue, who co-designed what ended up looking like a cross between the world’s tackiest block of Spanish-style retirement flats and a municipal library with her late husband, Enric Miralles, has this trophy in her sights, she’s begun waxing lyrical about her architectural vision.



“We were always trying to escape the pre-known result; to find something that’s a surprise for you,” she coos — a statement which won’t surprise anybody who watched that big hole in Holyrood fill up with mediocrity for about four years. The only surprise was how that mediocrity eventually cost 10 times what it was supposed to.

I can’t help feeling Benedetta is teasing us when she says: “There was a presence of books in our house. Sometimes, we had a lot of books we didn’t read. But we imagined what was inside.” She also regards her work as “architecture that’s never totally finished, or totally explained”, creating it “as if in a dream” because only then can you “do something that’s your own”.

If only she’d mentioned these concepts earlier! We didn’t need to build anything at all. We could have simply imagined what spending £431m might feel like, with each individual Scot creating their personal, dream parliament in their mind’s eye.

It will stick in my craw if Benedetta’s building wins the Stirling prize this October, so I have a suggestion that might make everybody happy. Give the prize to someone — anyone — else, but let her imagine she’s won it. Let her escape the pre-known result and instead, allow her to dream about it and feel the presence of the prize, without actually getting her paws on it. And if she ever asks why nobody has presented her with her award, tell her that can never be totally explained. She won’t mind. She loves surprises, after all.
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:33 pm

miaow

now that's bitchy....
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby phil » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:29 pm

There is quite a bit about that building in a new Charles Jencks book entitled 'The Iconic Building: The Power of Enigma'. In fact, he covers Gehry, Foster, Alsop, Libeskind etc etc aswell, Bit of semi-coffee table book, but not bad.
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:30 pm

Some scots are getting their knickers in a twist about the EMBT Santa Caterina market in Barca,,,

Stunning looking
http://spain.archiseek.com/catalunya/barcelona/santacaterina.html
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:01 am

Holyrood awards are just laughable


WILLIAM Lyons reminds us that the Holyrood Parliament building was three years late and 10 times over the original estimate ('Cutting criticism for tall grass at Holyrood, News, July 17).

The building is also undergoing alterations to internal lights, MSPs' offices are reported to be 'unfriendly' for the users - too hot in summer and too dark - other areas are being re designed or changed, windows are being refitted and a recent report showed the insulation in various places to be such that the building can hardly be seen as a good example of what an environmentally showpiece should be, despite being new.


The expected maintenance costs are likely to be very high. No doubt there are numerous other defects about the place that haven't been made public yet.

The surprise is that it has only won relatively few awards for its architecture.

In general, once a prominent building develops defects similar to Holyrood, the Institute of Architects, throw awards and medals at it.

Even the Spanish had to get in on this act. What on earth would one Manuel de la Dehesa actually think of the place? Or was this a posthumous award for Enric Miralles? If so, was it deserved?

The difference in comment and tone of passers-by and the landscape architect would indicate the wrong people are being employed, so what's new in Scottish public life?

The fact that they are trying to hide the building behind barriers and grass gives the game away.

In my opinion the same effect could have been achieved by leaving three partly-demolished tenements in place.

George Graham North Berwick
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Hugh » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:57 am

Was in Edinburgh last week and went to take another look. It's looking a bit diminished, frankly: scaffolding poles up around one of the grassed roofs, no sense of excitement, looking a bit crude. Popular with (some) visitors, though.
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby alan d » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:51 am

funny that, eh.............looking a bit crude, think it may have shot its bolt?


Holyrood? Pull the vile thing down

Channel 4 viewers put the £431m Scottish Parliament on their list of Britain's most hated eyesore buildings

David Smith
Sunday August 7, 2005
The Observer

Built from Caithness stone, stainless steel, oak and sycamore, it was intended as a soaring symbol of democracy against the backdrop of Holyrood Park and Salisbury Crags. But less than a year after the Scottish Parliament building opened its doors, the public have delivered their verdict: knock it down.
The £431 million flagship at the foot of Edinburgh's Royal Mile, already mired in controversy after running 10 times over budget and opening three years late, has suffered the final indignity of joining a list of eyesores including Gateshead Car Park, Northampton Bus Station and Rugby Cement Works.

They are among Britain's 12 'most vile' buildings as voted by up to 8,000 viewers for a forthcoming Channel 4 series, Demolition, in which first prize is the wrecking ball - though this is hardly likely in the case of Holyrood. The others, revealed by the Architects' Journal website http://www.ajplus.co.uk, include Westgate House in Newcastle, the Bournemouth Imax Cinema, Colliers Wood Brown & Root Tower and 'an extension to the old GLC building off Westminster Bridge'.
The series, which turns the BBC's Restoration on its head, is the brainchild of George Ferguson, president of the Royal Institute of British Architects (Riba), who has inverted the concept of listed buildings by arguing that Britain's ugliest edifices should be given a Grade X-listing and not prolonged beyond their natural lives.

'Some of the nominations are ridiculous, but they enable a discussion about architecture, good or bad,' Ferguson said. 'It was never my intention that that X-listing should only be about demolishing buildings. The repair of a historic building can be about taking out something inappropriate and replacing it with something appropriate. It's about making them attractive and amenable places that lift the spirits. I think we have some buildings in Britain that demoralise and depress.'

The Catalan architect of the Scottish Parliament, the late Enric Miralles, said he was inspired by the dramatic landscape, the delicate flower paintings of Charles Rennie Mackintosh and the curve of upturned boats on the seashore. He described his vision as a building 'sitting in and growing out of the land of Scotland'. The product has been hailed as a masterpiece to rival the Forth Bridge, won several awards and was last month shortlisted for the Stirling Prize, Riba's annual award.

'I think you'll find some of the nominations are there for reasons other than architecture,' Ferguson said. 'Some people who dislike the Scottish Parliament have probably been influenced by harmful stories of the mismanagement of the process and cost or are opposed to devolution, so they turn against the building. That's not to say I take against criticism of the building as irrational, but I do think it is brilliant.'

Holyrood's inclusion also astonished Kevin McCloud, the Grand Designs presenter who will front Demolition along with a team including Janet Street-Porter. 'That I find shocking. [The Parliament building] is up against a lot of second-rate buildings,' he said. 'I'm a big fan of it. I think being a Member of the Scottish Parliament is one of the best jobs going in Britain right now. But that experience is not carried across both the interior and the exterior of the building.

'When the whole idea was first arrived at, the highest bracketed figure was £40 million and, of course, it's cost something like 10 times that now. It's inevitable that it has attracted a lot of bad feeling among Scots.'

Broadcaster Kirsty Wark, a member of the panel which selected Miralles to design the building, said: 'I think it's a terrific building. Sometimes you grow to like these things. Maybe people who want to see the Scottish Parliament demolished will find it grows on them.'

A spokesman for the Parliament said: 'Since the poll more than 400,000 people have visited the Holyrood building to see it for themselves and it has won six major architecture awards and been shortlisted for the Stirling Prize. Channel 4's programme is looking to separate the controversies from the architectural merits of the building itself and we're delighted to help.'

In far greater jeopardy is Gateshead's multi-storey car park, earmarked for demolition by the local council despite opposition from its architect, Owen Luder, and the Twentieth Century Society. The Sixties structure, made famous by the Michael Caine gangster classic Get Carter, was once the symbol of the town but no longer fits Gateshead's aspirations to urban regeneration and has been branded a 'monstrosity'.

The final 'winner' of Demolition could well face destruction, but Channel 4 intends to erect a sustainable building in its place. Ferguson added: 'The series will inevitably influence buildings towards being demolished rather than having their lives artificially extended. But, more importantly, I hope it becomes a catalyst for change in our planning system.'
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby Hugh » Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:52 pm

Sounds like the red-trousered one is backtracking wildly, after finding that his absurd X-listing idea has thrown up one of the Stirling Prize contenders. Whoops...

Save the Gateshead car park, by the way. It's a fine building. Apparently the only reason they haven't demolished it already is because it would cost rather a lot to do so.
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Re: New Scottish Parliament

Postby alan d » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:26 pm

I hope he's choking on his comments frankly, now that the whole demolition idea looks like biting him in the ass .

Cheap shot in the first place. ..............guess he thought he'd have easy targets obviously. He'd not thought that it could include a Stirling contender

Luder, he's a big man but he's outa shape
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