We have all been massively wronged and should protest

Re: We have all been massively wronged and should protest

Postby wearnicehats » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:25 pm

onq wrote:BTW teak, looking again at your comments, it really boils down to support for a FF government.

You're not an FF shill, are you, sent to monitor disgruntled Architects' forums?

Just asking, because your comments about travellers are something I'd expect from an off duty Garda in the 1980's or a politician with a country base.

ONQ.


As far as I am able to ascertain Teak's agenda is that he bought a shoebox as an investment property that he can't sell and now has to live in. WHilst he vents his spleens at architects his beef is really with the planning and banking systems that allowed such properties to happen, with the minimum space standards that were in force at the time (rather than the welcome move towards larger shoeboxes that came too late), the developers who wouldn't pay for anything above the minimum and then, as ONQ says, didn't even pay the architects who adhered to their brief; and the builders who put all the pieces together in a slipshod fashion and then had the developer on their side whenever I tried to condemn work. I don't have a lot of time for anything I've been involved with building in the last 15 years, not because they look bad (which IMO they don't) but because, by the time it's finished, I'm so utterly sick of all the people I just mentioned that I'm glad it's all over with. The tenant is ultimately the one who pays but, caveat emptor, you reap what you sow etc etc. I'm not excusing poor aesthetics but form follows function (and system)
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Re: We have all been massively wronged and should protest

Postby teak » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:45 pm

The essential point that I made was that it would be a bad idea from the PR perspective for a group of architects to go loudly protesting on the streets about the present state of things because, in many people's minds, they had it good themselves through the boom.
Likewise for civil engineers (some sick rich from "turning" land), surveyors, etc.
I know you all didn't gouge and cream like some.
But most people aren't aware of the micromechanics within the profession in the "boom" period.

I make this point as you urgently need to improve the perception that ordinary people have of you - since for most architects at present the Joe Soaps will be your clients.
You have to get work from them; they need real architectural input when (re)designing their homes.
Simply a tactical point.

That apart, you ought be able to see that there is a now growing sense of cohesion amongst people in the country.
If I was an architect, I'd want to be part of that rather than looking out for my own sectional interests.

I am not political. (Also a man of little property. Too long in the tooth to be duped into buying over the value.)
I simply see politicians as people in the middle, "leading" drunkards, dragging the real leaders on the ground.
Seldom see any real change originating from them.
They aren't even original with their excuses.

As for my desire to see travellers housed, I am not ashamed of it.
That some of them may not want to live in a house ought not be a cop-out for us helping those who clearly do want it. Their children have to be considered too.
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Re: We have all been massively wronged and should protest

Postby C Flower » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:01 pm

Interesting thread. Everywhere I go I come across people setting up new parties or organising demonstrations. It's not only architects, you know.

Constantin Gurdgiev had a good piece on his blog yesterday. I can't remember his exact words, but he said that Ireland had the lid blown off by an influx of "hot money". We're not the first country it's happened to. It's not surprising that our fairly corrupt local governing class went along with it.

I think there are a lot of demonstrations coming up.
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Re: We have all been massively wronged and should protest

Postby onq » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:35 pm

teak wrote:(snip)

That apart, you ought be able to see that there is a now growing sense of cohesion amongst people in the country.
If I was an architect, I'd want to be part of that rather than looking out for my own sectional interests.


I think you've misunderstood my intent teak.

I posted the piece to every Dáil Deputy as Everyman, not particularly as an architect.

In that regard, I AM being a part of the growing movement of unease as typified by the reaction to Ritchie Boucher's 1.5 million pension "bung".

ONQ.
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Re: We have all been massively wronged and should protest

Postby C Flower » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:57 am

There are a few different meetings and demonstrations coming up, from different trade union and other groups, shown in the calendar here -

http://www.politicalworld.org/
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Re: We have all been massively wronged and should protest

Postby Tayto » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:18 pm

teak wrote:The essential point that I made was that it would be a bad idea from the PR perspective for a group of architects to go loudly protesting on the streets about the present state of things because, in many people's minds, they had it good themselves through the boom............

..........I make this point as you urgently need to improve the perception that ordinary people have of you - since for most architects at present the Joe Soaps will be your clients.
You have to get work from them; they need real architectural input when (re)designing their homes.
Simply a tactical point.



Yes I agree, Teak is right.
The severe consequences of any protest must be considered, before anyone does anything rash and cause offense.
In the event of an official protest, I propose following the lead of Craggy Island's Fr. Dougal and Fr. Ted, by having a careful protest, with placards reading "CAREFUL NOW!" and "DOWN WITH THAT SORT OF THING!".
The placards should of course be tastefully designed. Impressive placards may also lead to work opportunities in the signage business.
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Re: We have all been massively wronged and should protest

Postby teak » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:30 pm

It's also a waste of time, mate.

The present lot will be dumped soon enough, maybe even sooner.
The permanent tenured officials can't be dumped, only transferred to other departments.

But go on down to Kildare St and bawl a bit.
See what it does for you.
Eat the peach ! :D
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Re: We have all been massively wronged and should protest

Postby Tayto » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:13 pm

teak wrote:It's also a waste of time, mate.

The present lot will be dumped soon enough, maybe even sooner.
The permanent tenured officials can't be dumped, only transferred to other departments.

But go on down to Kildare St and bawl a bit.
See what it does for you.
Eat the peach ! :D


Yes..... indeed.... you are quite right.

But wait...what's this...Peaches??.....Marches??......

Bingo! I've got it! More work opportunities!
What about this for an idea...Dig out the ol' 1970's baby's pram, pimp it up a bit with some nice architectural & engineering modifications, load up the peaches, pears and bananas and off to Kildare St. to flog some organic sustinence to the protesting masses! There's money in that!
But do you need a street trader's licence for this kind of thing? Hmmmm...I must look into it.............if only I had the time.....
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Re: We have all been massively wronged and should protest

Postby Tayto » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:09 pm

teak wrote:It's also a waste of time, mate.

The present lot will be dumped soon enough, maybe even sooner.

Eat the peach ! :D


So that's even sooner than soon enough? I guess that's fairly soon then.

teak wrote:
Eat the peach ! :D


Eh.............Wha?
.
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