Cad a Dhéanfaimid Feasta Gan Tínteán

Re: Cad a Dhéanfaimid Feasta Gan Tínteán

Postby foremanjoe » Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:01 pm

teak wrote:You are judging people from the way they write, I feel.
I have given you an explanation that you seemed to lack.
I myself (a layman) was just as ignorant of modern house design up to not so long ago.
Why you see my suggestion of removing the fireplace element as some sort of attack on all you hold dear, I cannot work out.


Ok teak, this is where I'm going to climb off your crazy train.

I had mistakenly inferred that you were a 'professional architect' as you had previously stated that this thread was aimed at such people.

Your assertion that my position is a defence of the open fireplace is a misunderstanding on your behalf.

When you say you were just as ignorant of modern house design up to not so long ago, who were you just as ignorant as? You betrayed your ignorance in almost every post you made on this thread, so you're not quite there yet.

If you want professional design advice before you build your house, I don't think an internet forum is the way to go, especially if you end up pointlessly debating things that you don't seem to fully understand with pig-headed, anonymous people like me.

Find an architect, PAY HIM, then cross your fingers.
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Re: Cad a Dhéanfaimid Feasta Gan Tínteán

Postby teak » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:24 pm

Seems that I picked the worst possible time of the year for this topic !
So be it.
If there's any merit to this question then it will arise again, perhaps in the course of another member's housebuilding or renovation project.

Glorious New Years all.
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Re: Cad a Dhéanfaimid Feasta Gan Tínteán

Postby keating » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:42 pm

How many times a year do we use fireplaces? The rest of the time they cause drafts and cold bridges. If you've ever been in a passive house you'll find the last thing you want is a fire or stove. Are architects still designing houses with big 20kw oil boilers and 2 or 3 open fireplaces in 2010. No wonder most of the profession is redundant.
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Re: Cad a Dhéanfaimid Feasta Gan Tínteán

Postby PVC King » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:16 pm

I think thats a little harsh; there is something very pleasant about an open fire particularly one that burns wood; in terms of carbon emmisions there is a cost but equally wood from responsible forrest management i.e. pruning or off cuts from joinery shops would have hit landfill anyway.

I do however concur that the thermal bridge argument is a serious reason not to have an open fireplace in the existing format; however I have no doubt that in the future someone will design a system under negative pressure that can be closed at chimney/flue opening level when not in use. That combined with bundles of insulation behind the duct carrying the extract to prevent the thermal bridge effect along a long vertical area in the riser.

Whilst the room level hearth and fireplace are likely to remain traditional I suspect the elements you can't see are more likely to ressemble commercial kitchen extracts going forward and a grate tradition remain for those that can afford to buy and maintain a much more complex system.
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Re: Cad a Dhéanfaimid Feasta Gan Tínteán

Postby keating » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:47 pm

Most passive houses being built have room sealed stoves with dedicated air supply and a thermally broken flue, both with damper valves.

Open fires mainly use saw cut hardwoods or peat briquettes neither of which os a sustainable fuel source. Stoves can use sitka spruce or larchpole pine.

A fireplace is a net heat loss to a house even when it get high usage, Sure i have to agree that there is nothing to match an open fire, but unfortunately it compromises achieving a build that meets our current expectations of comfort. When achieving stable year round temperatures without bolting on a big life support 20kW Boiler, you need to insulate, this has the effect of raising dramatically the entropy of the air. This extra moisture carrying capacity of the warm air will create condensation problems at cold spots where dew point can occur at temps as high as 15 degrees. In this context whole house ventilation strategies becomes the only option, heat recovery then becomes a necessity as you shouldnt have to reheat the house volume every hour. In this context with a nice compact design, good siting and tight, vapour open detailing. Your heat load becomes so small on the coldest day that half a toaster could meet the space heating peak load (10 w heat output per sq.m).

Aesthetically, with good lighting, you dont miss the fireplace in a passive house, the opportunities for expansive glazing and open volume space more than compensate and your not running out every hour for more turf. So just stick a log fire DVD on the big plasma screen and walk about your toasty underfloor heated marble( locally sourced) floors in your bare feet. A fireplace place will not provide conditions of stable thermal comfort.
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