Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby mulp » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:03 pm

According to today's Irish Times
"DUBLIN 8 IS to get a touch of Libeskind/Gehry-style starchitecture in a new terrace of houses to be built in a lane off Camden Street.
The three aluminium fronted [Two-Bed] mews houses at 3 (A, B and C) Pleasants Place are for sale off-plans for €950,000 each through agent Felicity Fox.
The new houses, designed by Architecture 53 Seven, will be built on a site between more standard-style brick mews houses." (Emma Cullinan)

The City Council's website shows that Jason of Architecture 53 Seven is one of the applicant / developers. Drawings available there too, Ref: 2798/08.

Is he the bravest architect since Howard Roark (or Tom be Paor) or is he barking mad to be embarking on such a scheme?
Tom deP was involved as a partner in the development of two houses at John Dillon St, Dublin 8 and I do believe he has since stated that a lot of money and time was lost therein.

A 2-Bed house in a very narrow lane off Camden St. for nearly a mil? (Parking Extra), Anyone?

I'll be glad if men who need it find a better method of living in the house I built, but that's not the motive of my work, nor my reason, nor my reward! My reward, my purpose, my life, is the work itself - my work done my way! Nothing else matters to me! H.R.
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby henno » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:41 pm

mulp wrote:According to today's Irish Times
"DUBLIN 8 IS to get a touch of Libeskind/Gehry-style starchitecture in a new terrace of houses to be built in a lane off Camden Street.
The three aluminium fronted [Two-Bed] mews houses at 3 (A, B and C) Pleasants Place are for sale off-plans for €950,000 each through agent Felicity Fox.
The new houses, designed by Architecture 53 Seven, will be built on a site between more standard-style brick mews houses." (Emma Cullinan)

The City Council's website shows that Jason of Architecture 53 Seven is one of the applicant / developers. Drawings available there too, Ref: 2798/08.

Is he the bravest architect since Howard Roark (or Tom be Paor) or is he barking mad to be embarking on such a scheme?
Tom deP was involved as a partner in the development of two houses at John Dillon St, Dublin 8 and I do believe he has since stated that a lot of money and time was lost therein.

A 2-Bed house in a very narrow lane off Camden St. for nearly a mil? (Parking Extra), Anyone?

I'll be glad if men who need it find a better method of living in the house I built, but that's not the motive of my work, nor my reason, nor my reward! My reward, my purpose, my life, is the work itself - my work done my way! Nothing else matters to me! H.R.


architectural style... BLOODY BRAVE....

€950,000 each per unit... BARKING MAD!!!

that skewed angular glazed frontage is a bit of a trade mark of arch 53 7s (jason shaughnessy) practise...

theres an unfinished example in portlaoise....

durrow credit union was also initially designed with these features but building prices at the time mad it totally unachievable... i fear the same will happen here... it may end up a very very expensive architectural statement...
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby parka » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:49 pm

I'll get my bouncy cheque book out
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby gunter » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:56 pm

Image

This constitutes a 'front door' in 2009?
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby mulp » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:44 pm

gunter wrote:This constitutes a 'front door' in 2009?


A Pattern Language, Pattern 112, ENTRANCE TRANSITION:
"Buildings, and especially houses, with a graceful transition between the street and the inside, are more tranquil than those which open directly off the street."

A parking space can often double as a small and attractive entrance courtyard.
I wondered what happened to the requirement for mews houses to incorporate parking?
Maybe the aspiration is to travel only by Brompton bicycle or public transport. My experience is that this just means the car(s) get left in the lane more often.
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby bitasean » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:36 pm

I can't imagine they'd be that expensive to build, 300K each methinks, if the shard of glazing to the front is as tricky as it gets then the glazing could come in under 40K. Dont know much about aluminium cladding but I still reckon the price tag is (to use a topical phrase) "so 2006." The biggest risk is trying to find non-architects (since we've no money) to buy one, as far as I'm aware the lovley Boyd Cody box on Mount Pleasant Ave is still waiting for someone with a healthy bank account and appreciation for design to step up and buy it off the original owner - open to correction on that but the blinds are always down when I pass, shame really.
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby PVC King » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:51 pm

bitasean wrote:I can't imagine they'd be that expensive to build, 300K each methinks, if the shard of glazing to the front is as tricky as it gets then the glazing could come in under 40K. Dont know much about aluminium cladding but I still reckon the price tag is (to use a topical phrase) "so 2006." The biggest risk is trying to find non-architects (since we've no money) to buy one, as far as I'm aware the lovley Boyd Cody box on Mount Pleasant Ave is still waiting for someone with a healthy bank account and appreciation for design to step up and buy it off the original owner - open to correction on that but the blinds are always down when I pass, shame really.


The positive says investing ahead of the curve


Fact says time will tell

Ed says we'll see if there is a fee - but the provenance is good
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby wearnicehats » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:53 pm

bitasean wrote:I can't imagine they'd be that expensive to build, 300K each methinks, if the shard of glazing to the front is as tricky as it gets then the glazing could come in under 40K. Dont know much about aluminium cladding but I still reckon the price tag is (to use a topical phrase) "so 2006." The biggest risk is trying to find non-architects (since we've no money) to buy one, as far as I'm aware the lovley Boyd Cody box on Mount Pleasant Ave is still waiting for someone with a healthy bank account and appreciation for design to step up and buy it off the original owner - open to correction on that but the blinds are always down when I pass, shame really.


box shmox. I can't imagine living in it let alone buying it. lazy architecture for architecture's sake. The work of an AIA award winner in action. i can only imagine it is a publicity stunt these old streets deserve more respect -a modicum of notice of form and proportion rather than something knocked out in a quiet afternoon
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby Peter Fitz » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:10 am

wearnicehats wrote:box shmox. I can't imagine living in it let alone buying it. lazy architecture for architecture's sake. The work of an AIA award winner in action. i can only imagine it is a publicity stunt these old streets deserve more respect -a modicum of notice of form and proportion rather than something knocked out in a quiet afternoon


Is your lazy dismissal based on a single photo montage ?
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby missarchi » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:50 am

I admire them to tell you the truth...
I was told a fire escape past a kitchen was taboo and impossible in Ireland by a well regarded fire consultant. I was also told told that 3 storey houses need fire lobbies from bedrooms ect... I was told sprinklers can solve none of these issues in Ireland...
I could not believe the insanity of the whole thing and the consultant... ( I wanted different consultant but never got one! yes boss)

then I see this....

http://www.felicityfox.ie/floorplans/urban/6426%20EHL%20House%20F%20floor%20plan.pdf

and now the project above...

I was working on some top of the line houses in D4 and I wanted some of the features this project had but never got them...:( It has not been built yet but maybe one day...
The board also killed the best house out of the 4 of them.

that said I wouldn't pay that much for the houses above even if I could afford to by 50 m sq....
you reakon $2500 a sq. mtr to build or 2000? It's great to see arup banging out some quick sketches
how much was the land?
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:10 am

Peter Fitz wrote:Is your lazy dismissal based on a single photo montage ?


no - I looked at the scheme actually - did you? the plan is nice and simple if you don't mind having to go through your living room to get to the kitchen, I can't figure out how they got round the part m requirement at ground floor and I think the quality of light to the rear of the living room will be poor. Most of all I find the elevations jarring and just a lot of cranky shapes and lines for the sake of the AIA. When we ignore context, proportion and urban grain then architecture becomes very easy. lazy. That enough for you?
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby missarchi » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:43 am

wearnicehats wrote: part m requirement


guidance... maybe it should be treated like parking spaces
The toilet idea is crazy for small plates and over restrictive...
Having said that what kind of disabled person would want to live in a 3 storey house?
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:50 am

missarchi wrote:guidance... maybe it should be treated like parking spaces
The toilet idea is crazy for small plates and over restrictive...
Having said that what kind of disabled person would want to live in a 3 storey house?


the requirement is for a visitor. you should read it
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby parka » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:09 pm

missarchi wrote:Having said that what kind of disabled person would want to live in a 3 storey house?


Disability goes beyond mobility impairments
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby missarchi » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:18 pm

wearnicehats wrote:the requirement is for a visitor. you should read it


I have a thousand times... have you read it?
you want to see my toilet and if its ok?
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:33 pm

missarchi wrote:I have a thousand times... have you read it?
you want to see my toilet and if its ok?


Amazingly, you missed this paragraph 1000 times:

2.9 A WC should be provided at entry level or,
where there is no habitable room at this level, in the
storey containing the main living room. At entry
level, the WC should be so located that it can be
accessed from the accessible entrance and from at
least one habitable room without the need to
negotiate steps.

re your toilet - why don't you post a feckin picture of it with a stupid title and a smiley after it
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby mulp » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:13 pm

Now, now girls, lets not get carried away...

If the houses were built before sale, any potential purchaser (if any) would drive the price down to what it should be for a 2-bed, no-parking, house on a very very narrow lane.
Result: Big loss.
As the houses are being sold off plan with a colossal price tag, purchasers most likely won't even start to engage. If they do talk to the estate agent they'll be asking "No seriously, whats the real price?". As they are not built, the developer/architect does not have the same pressure to drop the price and recoup some outlay.
Result: No price drop, No purchasers, No houses built.
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby Peter Fitz » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:00 pm

wearnicehats wrote:no - I looked at the scheme actually - did you? the plan is nice and simple if you don't mind having to go through your living room to get to the kitchen, I can't figure out how they got round the part m requirement at ground floor and I think the quality of light to the rear of the living room will be poor. Most of all I find the elevations jarring and just a lot of cranky shapes and lines for the sake of the AIA. When we ignore context, proportion and urban grain then architecture becomes very easy. lazy. That enough for you?


I just thought that such a withering dismissal of 'an aia award winner' and their 'lazy' proposal, 'knocked out on a quiet afternoon' required a little more reasoning from yourself.

Given what adjoins the site, it could be a welcome diversion, might work, might not, i'm keeping an open mind.
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby missarchi » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:21 pm

I think its ambitious/risky and Dublin needs more of this... I doubt it will age well but such is life... But its never going to happen unless land becomes freeish... and a line is drawn around the city. We almost need starter homes... that have the potential to be phased/upgraded/another floor put on top or to the side to match a 5 year mortgage...
There is so much undeveloped/underutilised land... some of it should be given to architects for free...

I do feel Dublin sorely lacks a project with colourful glazed bricks of various colours...
these might be good above first floor...
http://www.ibstock.com/elementix-2008-colour.asp
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Re: Bloody Brave or Barking Mad?

Postby dermot_trellis » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:56 pm

'An AIA Award winner in action'? American Institute of Architects?..

I had a walk down that lane on my way home.. It's a narrow little street alright and mostly just back services entrances and modern mews housing - I'm not sure there's much in the way of context or grain for them to disturb. It's interesting to see people try things like this (like that Future Systems house in Ballsbridge that went for planning last year - any news on that?) but I can see the concerns about the quality of the entrances and lighting.. and the proposed price.
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