Limerick Transport

Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:08 pm

An update on the Southern Ring Road....

Here are 2 recent pics taken by tech2


View from the Ballykeeffe Boreen overbridge looking east towards Dooradoyle

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Dock Road Interchange

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:51 pm

It looks like as if the whole stretch of Motorway from the Dock Road junction to the tunnel will be lit up and I presume beyond as far as the two tolling plazas.

I’d say this stretch will be opened up soon (Rosbrien – Dock Road)?

Any latest images of the Rosbrien Interchange (M7/M20) around?
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:51 pm

CologneMike wrote:It looks like as if the whole stretch of Motorway from the Dock Road junction to the tunnel will be lit up and I presume beyond as far as the two tolling plazas.

I’d say this stretch will be opened up soon (Rosbrien – Dock Road)?

Any latest images of the Rosbrien Interchange (M7/M20) around?


Rossbrien to the Dock Road could probably be finished relatively quickly but apparently there arent any plans to open this section before the rest of the project. I can only guess they're afraid of what would happen with all traffic having to exit at that woeful interchange!

As regards the Rosbrien Interchange, well its currently a hive of activity. The slip from M7 west to M20 south is now open, which means access is no longer available from M7 west to Childers Road. Traffic is reduced to one lane on the M20 north from the Dooradoyle onslip to Rossbrien to facilitate the gradual removal of the Rosbrien roundabout and the tieing in of the new loops and slips.

Incidentally, its only now beginning to dawn on the general public that access to the Childers Road from the M20 is going to be lost! Im guessing they don't know about the M7 situation either!:eek:
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:55 pm

Tuborg wrote:Incidentally, its only now beginning to dawn on the general public that access to the Childers Road from the M20 is going to be lost! Im guessing they don't know about the M7 situation either!:eek:


I guess the PPP arrangement behind the tunnel would have a vested interest that the (Cork/Dublin to Shannon/Galway) traffic does not exit at the Childers Road. A cost conscious driver could bypass the tolls by taking the arrow route below.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby foinse » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:33 am

CologneMike wrote:I guess the PPP arrangement behind the tunnel would have a vested interest that the (Cork/Dublin to Shannon/Galway) traffic does not exit at the Childers Road. A cost conscious driver could bypass the tolls by taking the arrow route below.


That makes no sense, they can still get off at the Dock Road, out over Shannon Bridge, and onto N18 from there completely skipping the toll. The only reason for this exit being lost is stupidity and poor planning.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby mitchell » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:40 pm

Ya I was pleasently suprised at there being no toll plaza at the dock road interchange.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:00 pm

foinse wrote:That makes no sense . . . .


Well look at it this way,

The distance from the Rossbrien Junction to the Shannon Bridge is only circa 3.25 km.

(i.e. via Childers Road – Roxboro Road – Carey’s Road – Mallow Street). Thereafter it’s toll-free.

That’s a very attractive direct alternative for someone from say Adare and working in Shannon than going via the tunnel, thus saving money.

I could imagine that the investors behind the financing of the tunnel would see this exit as a potential leakage of revenues.

. . . . , they can still get off at the Dock Road, out over Shannon Bridge, and onto N18 from there completely skipping the toll.


Sure, but this indirect route would be circa 6.5 km i.e. double the distance above.

Hmmm . . . . . imagine the tunnel is direct in front of you and you then decide to turn off by Dock road to travel into town as far as the Shannon Bridge.

I’d speculate and say that most people when they get as far as the Dock Road, would probably say ah feck it and drive straight on to the tunnel.

The only reason for this exit being lost is stupidity and poor planning.


There must be a method to (NRA) their madness for deliberately closing the exit to the Childers Road. Nobody can be that stupid? Well . . . . us! :(

Check out the various routes on their interactive map.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:17 pm

The decision not to have access is nothing to do with the NRA, but rather due to local objections way back when planning was going on. Limerick Post story.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:46 pm

The NRA didnt actually impose this situation on the city. Back in 2002/2003, the City Council of the day gave it's backing to the plan to remove the inbound access route. If I remember correctly, they were of the opinion that the local road network would be unable to cater for the volumes of traffic that would be using it!:confused: It's yet another indictment of City Councillor's that they only seemed to become aware of this problem once it was reported in the local press!:rolleyes:

Had the City Council requested that the Rosbrien Interchange facilitate all traffic movements, I have no doubt that this would have been adhered to. Although we probably would have ended up with a messy stacked roundabout solution rather than the current free flow design given the NRA's inability to link two motorways in an coherent manner!
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby foinse » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:56 am

CologneMike wrote:Well look at it this way,

The distance from the Rossbrien Junction to the Shannon Bridge is only circa 3.25 km.

(i.e. via Childers Road – Roxboro Road – Carey’s Road – Mallow Street). Thereafter it’s toll-free.

That’s a very attractive direct alternative for someone from say Adare and working in Shannon than going via the tunnel, thus saving money.

I could imagine that the investors behind the financing of the tunnel would see this exit as a potential leakage of revenues.



Sure, but this indirect route would be circa 6.5 km i.e. double the distance above.

Hmmm . . . . . imagine the tunnel is direct in front of you and you then decide to turn off by Dock road to travel into town as far as the Shannon Bridge.

I’d speculate and say that most people when they get as far as the Dock Road, would probably say ah feck it and drive straight on to the tunnel.



There must be a method to (NRA) their madness for deliberately closing the exit to the Childers Road. Nobody can be that stupid? Well . . . . us! :(

Check out the various routes on their interactive map.



Sure they could go down Childers Road, Roxboro Road, Carey's Road, and Mallow Street, sure it is a shorter distance, however with morning traffic it would take longer than the Dock road which will handle less traffic because of the tunnel. How many schools and businesses are on the route you've suggested? all the roads you've names are crazy busy during the morning rush hour.

There are a number of routes on that map that go nowhere near the tunnel, the reason a lot of the routes do, is they're trying to keep people who have no business in the city centre out of the city centre. and as pointed out by other posters, it was the lack of foresight by the council at the time has lead to this exit being lost.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:44 am

Tuborg wrote:The NRA didnt actually impose this situation on the city. Back in 2002/2003, the City Council of the day gave it's backing to the plan to remove the inbound access route. If I remember correctly, they were of the opinion that the local road network would be unable to cater for the volumes of traffic that would be using it!:confused:


Any old newspaper link around to what the Council / NRA agreed to back then? It would be fascinating to read as to who said what then?

It's yet another indictment of City Councillor's that they only seemed to become aware of this problem once it was reported in the local press! :rolleyes:


Reading the article below underlines that!

Had the City Council requested that the Rosbrien Interchange facilitate all traffic movements, I have no doubt that this would have been adhered to. Although we probably would have ended up with a messy stacked roundabout solution rather than the current free flow design given the NRA's inability to link two motorways in an coherent manner!


Even a simple clover leaf interchange junction (below) for Rossbrien would easily deal with the level of traffic volumes on it.

Concern at plan to cut M20 access (Limerick Leader)

By Petula Martyn

SERIOUS concerns have been expressed after it was confirmed that Limerick city is set to lose an inbound access route from the Southern Ring Road when the project is completed next year.

The plan is that motorists will no longer get into the city via the Carew Park link road beside the Maldron Hotel.

That road will only be for outward traffic to the motorway. Closing the inbound lane of the Carew Park Link Road beside the Maldron Hotel is an "emergency issue" according to Cllr Ger Fahy, who said the loss of the access route "could do untold damage to the future of the city".

The matter was discussed at a Transport SPC meeting at City Hall this week, where fears were expressed that the move will have a detrimental affect on traffic management in the city.

"There is an acceptance that we do need to have access from the Rosbrien Interchange directly into the city," Cllr Fahy told the Limerick Leader.

"The original design was that access would be closed but now people realise that if it is closed it would create havoc, and the NRA can't change their plans at this stage."

The National Roads Authority consulted Limerick City Council when designing the Southern Ring Road which includes the Shannon Tunnel, and it was agreed that the Carew Park Link Road should accommodate outbound traffic only leading onto the Rossbrien Interchange.

It currently has an inbound and outbound lane. Originally residents in Carew Park were opposed to an inbound access route because they did not want an increase in traffic volume. However, Carew Park is now part of the Regeneration project which promotes the inclusion of disadvantaged estates into the road network.

Physical exclusion and social exclusion are interlinked according to the Fitzgerald Report, and staff at the Regeneration Agency have held meetings with the NRA to reverse the decision to close the inbound lane which leads to Roxboro and Ballinacurra.

Representatives from the Maldron Hotel - formerly the Quality Hotel - who will be directly affected by the closure of the inbound lane, have also expressed their concerns to the NRA.

Cllr Kieran O'Hanlon told the SPC meeting this week that the NRA cannot "dictate the traffic flow in Limerick city". However, Pat Dromey, who is Director of Transport and Infrastructure at City Hall, explained that the NRA has a contractual agreement as part of the public private partnership project. "The bus has left the station long ago," Mr Dromey said of the road layout, which forms part of the major infrastructural project now in its final phase. "

The director said that this did not mean that something cannot be done to address the loss of an access route when the overall project is finished.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:51 pm

CologneMike wrote:Even a simple clover leaf interchange junction (below) for Rossbrien would easily deal with the level of traffic volumes on it.


The cloverleaf interchange has kind of gone out of fashion at this stage mainly due to the weaving problems it creates. The modern replacement for a cloverleaf is a "parclo" (partially unrolled cloverleaf) where two of the tight loops are removed.

Image

The Rosbrien interchange is essentially a restricted parclo as it is missing two traffic movements. A full parclo would have been an ideal solution for here but I seriously doubt that NRA would have had the bottle to build it!

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:57 pm

The Limerick Tunnel Autumn newsletter is now available.

It mentions that the slip from the M20 northbound to M7 east will be opened next month.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:36 pm

Your full parclo solution for the Rossbrien Interchange would have been ideal. You are right about the cheaper cloverleaf interchanges. If one gets two very heavy traffic flows trying to interleaf between two tight loops, it does cause tailbacks.

What now for the Rossbrien Interchange as it would take an expensive piece of re-engineering to accommodate exits for traffic coming from Cork and Dublin.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:23 pm

Yeah it really was an appalling decision to restrict this interchange, yet another example of the shortsightedness that plagues this country!:rolleyes:

The NRA and the local councils now realise just how much of a cock-up this is going to be. Of course, to compound the issue, the two adjacent interchanges ( N24 Ballysimon & N69 Dock Road) are woefully underpowered and under spec, even for current traffic levels which will likely result in chronic congestion!

Dock Road interchange

Apparently the contingency plan for city centre access is to add slip roads to the Kilmallock road overbridge, which certainly isnt ideal. Re-establishing a city centre connection at Rosbrien is probably possible but would certainly be tricky, not to mind expensive! The Galway to Cork slip road would obviously need to be realigned and the city link either sunk below it in an underpass or diverted over it. Then again an overbridge might not be feasible from an engineering point of view.

Either way, it's extremely unlikely that we'll see any modifications to the agreed design!
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:03 pm

NRA ACCUSES LIMERICK COUNCILLOR OF GRANDSTANDING (live95fm)

The National Roads Authority is accusing a local councillor of political grandstanding over the issue of the Carew Park Interchange on the Southern Ring Road.

Sean O'Neill of the NRA press office says there was an open public process in which Limerick city council requested the interchange be outbound only when completed, and the NRA has delivered.

Mr O'Neill says the cost of redesigning the project now would be prohibitive.

He says the NRA are open to looking at alternative solutions but the current design will not change, and he says Cllr Jim Long, who is opposed to the plans, is being unfair:

Cllr Jim Long says he's not surprised by the comments but says he's not grandstanding.

He says the NRA is contradicting itself :confused:
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:56 pm

CologneMike wrote:NRA ACCUSES LIMERICK COUNCILLOR OF GRANDSTANDING (live95fm)

The National Roads Authority is accusing a local councillor of political grandstanding over the issue of the Carew Park Interchange on the Southern Ring Road.

Sean O'Neill of the NRA press office says there was an open public process in which Limerick city council requested the interchange be outbound only when completed, and the NRA has delivered.

Mr O'Neill says the cost of redesigning the project now would be prohibitive.

He says the NRA are open to looking at alternative solutions but the current design will not change, and he says Cllr Jim Long, who is opposed to the plans, is being unfair:

Cllr Jim Long says he's not surprised by the comments but says he's not grandstanding.

He says the NRA is contradicting itself :confused:


Looks like Cllr. Jim Long is up to his old tricks again. I actually don't think I can ever recall him making a worthwhile contribution to any debate he's gotten involved in. I guess the major flaw with democracy is that it allows people like him to get elected!:o

His comments regarding the set-up at Rosbrien display an embarrassing lack of understanding of the issue. He basically hasnt a clue about what he's talking about.

The reality of the situation is that back in 2002/2003, Limerick City Council made the decision to extinguish the Childer's Road link to discourage traffic from entering the city centre. They now realise that this was a horrible mistake and instead of accepting responsibility, they are trying to blame it all on the NRA. How pathetic!:rolleyes:
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:39 pm

Road surface and concrete median barrier now in place westbound on the Rosbrien overbridge. Road marking is also underway.

Photo by tech2

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Griff » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:38 am

I think the decision to stop access from the N20 / N7 road into the city via the Childers rd link would have been a correct one if there had been an alternative access method provided - the Childers road link is messy as it only beings you up to a tee-junction with traffic lights on Childers road- mind you this road may be a bit quieter once the tunnel is open ?.. Looking at the exisiting scheme I would think that it would be easy/cheap enough to provide access straight through from the Cork road - just a case of how to handle the junction where this road would meet the traffic exiting from the east bound lane. For traffic coming from Dublin wanting access to the city perhaps an exit on the Kilmallock road flyover as stated above might work -which would bring you out at the Roxboro SC rounadabout - not too bad!.. Alternatively an off ramp onto the Rosbrien road ( after the flyover) - although this would bring a lot of traffic though Greenfields..
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:13 pm

The Rosbrien to Childer's Road link was definitely the most straightforward route for M20 traffic wishing to access the city centre. The opportunity existed to provide a fully free-flowing, full access junction at Rossbrien that would also have offered the best means of access to the city for Dublin traffic. This would also have taken a lot of pressure off the woefully inadequate Ballysimon and Dock Road interchanges, yet the powers that be inexplicably decided against it!

Adding inbound slips to the Kilmallock overbridge is a messy solution really. It would more than likely result in issues with merging/diverging traffic given that you would have 3 junctions relatively close together! Although its something that we're probably just going to have to put up with now!:rolleyes:

The Greenfields Road overbridge is a non-runner because the west bound on-slip (M20 to N/M7) merges only 200 metres or so before the bridge.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:06 pm

Firefighters and gardai trained to deal with Limerick tunnel disasters (Limerick Leader)

By Mike Dwane

OVER 100 firefighters and 60 gardai are being trained to respond to incidents in the Limerick Tunnel as construction on the €660m second phase of the Southern Ring Road project continues.
A spokesperson for the Direct Route consortium confirmed this Thursday that the tunnel was scheduled to open on time in September 2010, with the toll for ordinary motorists expected to be around €2 when it opens.

Local businesspeople and Austrian professionals resident in Ireland were this Thursday given a guided tour of the tunnel in advance of an Irish-Austrian business networking event at the Clarion Hotel, an initiative of Austrian construction giant Strabag, the tunnelling experts for Direct Route.

Five 100m sections of tunnel – named Liz, Grace, Brigid, Chantal and Sarah – are all in place and it has been possible to walk under the Shannon since November 2008. Each section is the length of a football pitch, as high as a two-storey house and wide enough to accommodate four lanes of traffic. Engineers are currently engaged in installing the high-tech mechanical, electrical and safety systems in the tunnel.

And Direct Route manager Tom King said the emergency services, too, are preparing for the grand opening.

"The emergency services tunnel training has started with the fire services from Limerick county, Limerick city and Clare. A select group of fire officers from the three fire services recently attended specialised tunnel firefighting training in Switzerland," said Mr King.

"The fire services will train up to 120 firefighters and the Gardai plan to train up to 60 officers for response to incidents in the tunnel," he added.

Engineers attached to the project have explained that, in the event of fire, smoke or polluted air, the tunnel comes with a high-spec reversible ventilation system.

Roger Harse, of Capital Symonds, who were involved in the tunnel design, told a conference in Limerick last year that every 50 metres along the tunnel there will emergency doors. Fire points with hydrants and power sockets for Limerick Fire Service are to be installed. And a number of emergency points for the public are to be equipped with telephones, alarm buttons and fire extinguishers.

In the case of an oil spillage inside the tunnel, there will be fire-protected drainage sumps which could accommodate a spillage from a full tanker. A foam system is also being built into the tunnel in the event of a fire.

And in addition to two full power supplies entering from either side of the tunnel, there are to be additional back-up generators. The tunnel will also be equipped with an "intelligent detection system".

"It will pick up on movements of animals, not a mouse, but anything as big as a dog, or pedestrians or anything else that shouldn't be in there, it will pick up on accidents and smoke and is fitted with CCTV," Mr Harse said. And the system will "capture images 30 seconds before the alarm is activated so we can find out why it happened".

Meanwhile, the Irish-Austrian business networking event that arose from Strabag's involvement in the project has proved a huge success.

As well as Limerick, the firm has been involved in tunnel building projects in Niagara, New Zealand and Montenegro. It has also won contracts in the past for the Copenhagen Metro and airports in Sofia and even Basra, Iraq.

Strabag and Direct Route teamed up with Limerick Chamber and the Austrian Trade Commission to organise the networking event.

"Overwhelming interest" in the guided tour of the tunnel meant is had to be split into two sessions, after which over 100 businesspeople got together in the Clarion to make connections over a selection of Austrian wines.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:12 pm

Tuborg wrote:Road surface and concrete median barrier now in place westbound on the Rosbrien overbridge. Road marking is also underway.


I can’t say that I’m too impressed to see the Rossbrien Motorway Overbridge peaking like that as it crosses over the M20 thus creating in my opinion an unnecessary dip that would hide the view of traffic in front of oneself. :(

I can’t make out where exactly does the Galway-Bound-Traffic coming from the City will merge with the M7.

  • On the peak?
  • 200m after the peak?
  • Or will it merge first with the Cork traffic first and then with the M7?
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:23 pm

Firefighters and gardai trained to deal with Limerick tunnel disasters (Limerick Leader)

Tuborg, you beat me again to this one! :p

Image North Tunnel Bore
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:18 pm

LIMERICK DESIGNER SAYS ROAD SIGNAGE NEEDS OVERHAUL (live95fm)

A Limerick designer says a complete overhaul of Ireland's road signage could reduce deaths on our country's roads.

Garrett Reil - a graduate of Limerick College of Art and Design - has been selected by the Institute of Designers in Ireland for their 'Best of Young Irish Design' exhibition following his publication on the current road sign system.

The study highlighted that 77 per cent of Irish language speakers and 58 per cent of English speakers preferred an alternative design for greater clarity.

Garrett believes simple changes to road signs could help avoid potentially dangerous driver behaviour:


I wonder what does Garrett Reil think of this sign (nearby to Limerick College of Art and Design)?

Visitors entering the city would nearly have to pull up first at this sign to read it :rolleyes: before deciding to get into the proper lane?

Maybe too much detailed information displayed on the right-hand-side of it?

  • City Centre, M20, N69 (Left Lane)
  • N18, Airport, LIT College, Thomond Park, Castle (Right Lane)
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Griff » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:53 am

Limerick city council seem to be more vocal in recent weeks about the need to encourage future development in the city centre - 2 proposals that spring to mind are the cinema on the ennis road and now the parkway redevelopment - both of which were refused because they are 'out of town'. I think the Parkway should be allowed to at the very least improve its image and any building work there should be tied into a major overhaul of the roundabout . For many people who want to go town for whatever reason - that roundabout is a major mental as well as physical block. How it can be improved is a difficult question - there were plans I believe in a previous proposal for the Parkway to create a tee-junction with traffic lights...not sure if this was the solution.
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