Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby what? » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:17 pm

I’m a local and I am all for it.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby MurrayMints » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:46 pm

As am I and I love it.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Peter Fitz » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:10 am

no issue with the sculpture, just not in the river.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby what? » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:44 am

If it wasn’t in the river I wouldn’t like it. It’s what makes it interesting, it relates to the scale of the river, the only open space big enough in the city to take something of this scale.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby ctesiphon » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:14 pm

what? wrote:If it wasn’t in the river I wouldn’t like it. It’s what makes it interesting, it relates to the scale of the river, the only open space big enough in the city to take something of this scale.


Would you consider that it's too big to be sited on land at, oh, let's say, the corner of Sir John Rogerson's Quay and Britain Quay? (Or, for that matter, the Phoenix Park?)

I too think it's a good piece in the wrong location- I'd have no problem if the figure stood at the Rogerson's/Britain corner, facing out to sea. Why not have it facing directly towards Liverpool, with a corresponding twin alongside the three graces, facing towards Dublin? Or does that seem too much like actual maritime/docklands history (which, let's face it, has never been the DDDA's strong suit)?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby what? » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:50 pm

I could imagine it in the phoenix park, but imagining it on land it somehow becomes bland.

I don’t understand the issue with it being in the water. Is the Liffey somehow sacred? Is it Ireland’s Ganges? I don’t see people immersing themselves in it.

Why not use this massive open space that runs thought the very centre of our city as a public space instead of ignoring it?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby GrahamH » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:12 pm

For me, that is the problem. I don't think it does address the Liffey at all. It doesn't make sense to have a random piece of art placed along a linear strip of river flanking a batch of Legoland houses. The fact that it is to be positioned close to the quay wall further emphasises this problem - essentially it lacks both context and relevance to the site.

I think what exemplifies this issue is the decision-making process of where to put it. Why was this site chosen? Why not 500m closer to the city? Or 500m further away? The fact that there is such a wide berth in the possible locations for the placement of a significant piece of art renders the chosen location meaningless. All the DDDA seemed to want was a 'bit of water somewhere close to the wall', which alas lends the wider project a gimmicky, for-the-sake-of-it quality.

This is a signature piece of public art that requires, if not a significant location, then certainly a distinctive or off-beat one, that gives it a presence and sense of purpose. Not just randomly placed in the river like a rubber duck being drawn towards the side of the bath.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby alonso » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:37 pm

top of the hill of howth...
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby alonso » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:44 pm

and we can call him Ben Header, in keeping with mangling Irish names into English
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby MurrayMints » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:11 pm

GrahamH wrote:For me, that is the problem. I don't think it does address the Liffey at all. It doesn't make sense to have a random piece of art placed along a linear strip of river flanking a batch of Legoland houses. The fact that it is to be positioned close to the quay wall further emphasises this problem - essentially it lacks both context and relevance to the site.

I think what exemplifies this issue is the decision-making process of where to put it. Why was this site chosen? Why not 500m closer to the city? Or 500m further away? The fact that there is such a wide berth in the possible locations for the placement of a significant piece of art renders the chosen location meaningless. All the DDDA seemed to want was a 'bit of water somewhere close to the wall', which alas lends the wider project a gimmicky, for-the-sake-of-it quality.

This is a signature piece of public art that requires, if not a significant location, then certainly a distinctive or off-beat one, that gives it a presence and sense of purpose. Not just randomly placed in the river like a rubber duck being drawn towards the side of the bath.



They are placing a piece of art work in a river that runs through a capital city, thats a fairly distintive and off-beat location to me.

Also its position in the river doesn't seem so to be random at all.
It is close to a bridge so it will not be in the way of any other bridges that could be built across the river in the future.
It is along the southern bank of the river where the river widens so it doesn't cause clutter and
it is close enough to the core of the city to be seen but far enough away so as not to impose.

Great piece of work and great location!
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby gunter » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:28 pm

MurrayMints wrote:
It is close to a bridge so it will not be in the way of any other bridges that could be built across the river in the future.
It is along the southern bank of the river where the river widens so it doesn't cause clutter and
it is close enough to the core of the city to be seen but far enough away so as not to impose.

Great piece of work and great location!


. . . . and it seems to address the long vista down Westland Row / Lombard Street:)

I'd start back pedalling now Graham, if I was you!
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby ctesiphon » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:05 pm

MurrayMints wrote:It is close to a bridge so it will not be in the way of any other bridges that could be built across the river in the future.
It is along the southern bank of the river where the river widens so it doesn't cause clutter and
it is close enough to the core of the city to be seen but far enough away so as not to impose.


...whereas I, unlike you and gunter, would see these as constraints that have had to be accommodated- why compromise when it comes to an optimal location?

Notwithstanding this counter-argument, do you think these matters were to the fore of the great minds in the DDDA when they chose the winner? When they wrote the brief? I certainly don't think so. The orientation, the location, the angle of the head, the position of the arms have all changed since it was first unveiled- surely a textbook example of a flexible concept? ;)

what? wrote:Why not use this massive open space that runs thought the very centre of our city as a public space instead of ignoring it?


Whilst I see your point, I don't see how the insertion of a piece of sculpture turns an open space into a public space. I didn't agree with that argument when it was decided to relocate the Abbey to George's Dock, and the same applies here. Not to mention that it currently is public space- just not space the public can use (a distinction that's similar to that between 'doing nothing' and 'passive recreation' ;)). Can't we take pleasure from emptiness and openness for its own sake any more? Please tell me that hasn't been relegated to the preserve of the one-off-house-owning kings of the hills!
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby G mc » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:46 pm

I am the person with the backing off the majority off the locals on City Quay who put in the objection to the monster off a thing going up in the Liffey.Dublin docklands have done a lot of good things for the area but this will undo them.As for public consultations they were just payin lip service to the powers that be and did not take into account our views or fears.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby G mc » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:31 pm

G mc wrote:I am the person with the backing of the majority off the locals on City Quay who put in the objection to the monster off a thing going up in the Liffey.Dublin docklands have done a lot of good things for the area but this will undo them.As for public consultations they were just payin lip service to the powers that be and did not take into account our views or fears.
...
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby jdivision » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:52 am

G mc wrote: fears.


What on earth were the fears? I could understand not liking it (I don't either) but "fears". It's not a transformer, it's not going to fall on houses, so what fears?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby shanekeane » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:20 am

This is exactly what I'm thinking of when I say that locals should be ignored.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Peter Fitz » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:00 am

MurrayMints wrote:It is close to a bridge so it will not be in the way of any other bridges that could be built across the river in the future.


Its proximity to the bridge and ncc is part of the problem, whatever people think of the NCC & the James Joyce bridge, there is or will be a pleasing balance between the two.

The location is random, odd & an obvious afterthought - competing with what is likely to become the crux of the docklands - the sculpture deserves better.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby lostexpectation » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:09 am

perhaps he meant concerns
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby notjim » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:41 am

jdivision wrote:What on earth were the fears? I could understand not liking it (I don't either) but "fears". It's not a transformer, it's not going to fall on houses, so what fears?


That isn't fair jdivision; it is admirable that people fear a degradation of their visual environment in the same way that they would fear something that affected their health or homes. It is wrong to demand that peoples fears are restricted to their personal property or personal health: public property and the public realm belong to us all and we can all fear that which we feel threatens them.

I have mixed feelings about the sculpture, I admire Gormley but I feel it this sculpting does unnecessary violence to the river vista. I am also irked that we aren't being shown the other entries.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby poukai » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:32 pm

notjim wrote:I have mixed feelings about the sculpture, I admire Gormley but I feel it this sculpting does unnecessary violence to the river vista. I am also irked that we aren't being shown the other entries.


I rather agree with this bit, don't really know what to think myself, not overly convinced that the sculpture is a great idea, it could be, but then I really think I won't know until I see it, and by then it will be too late if I don't (not that that will make much difference anyway :D). It is an interesting concept, quite a daring one, and could well prove to be genius just as easily as it could be a failiure. Or both.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby what? » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:34 pm

Jesus! Is that fence comfortable to sit on?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby poukai » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:38 pm

:D Not really. Good job I got my iron plated underwear padded...

But it sure beats being nailed to a cross any day.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby G mc » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:32 pm

jdivision wrote:What on earth were the fears? I could understand not liking it (I don't either) but "fears". It's not a transformer, it's not going to fall on houses, so what fears?

THE FEARS are that the local lads that swim in the liffey will try to climb it and there will be an injury or god forbid a drowning.Before anybody says they wont climb it look at the structure and you will see that they have a perfect ladder to do it.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby notjim » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:37 pm

G mc: can I withdraw my support above for your use of the word fear?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby G mc » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:58 pm

notjim wrote:G mc: can I withdraw my support above for your use of the word fear?

That is one fear that we have and if people bother to read the planning objection they will see what we se will happen if this monster goes ahead
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