Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby Devin » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:16 am

jimg wrote:A couple of developers have tried to bypass the DDDA by appealing to the council
Just a correction. You don't appeal to the council. You only appeal to An Bord Pleanala.


jimg wrote:[To paul h] You'd appear less like an idiot if you stopped blaming "serial objecters" and actually learned something about the planning system before commenting
Have you not noticed by now? paul h writes the same thing in every post!


jimg wrote: on what has caused the docklands mess.
A mess? It may be considered to be boring but it's carefully planned. It's not a mess.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby paul h » Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:52 am

jimg wrote:Proposed developments in the area under the remit of the DDDA are generally not subject to planning objections. Almost everything that has been built there has been directly and completely guided by the DDDA and they bear full responsibility for the result. A couple of developers have tried to bypass the DDDA by appealing to the council for planning but in the vast majority of cases objection is impossible. You'd appear less like an idiot if you stopped blaming "serial objecters" and actually learned something about the planning system before commenting on what has caused the docklands mess.


ok DDDA are directly resonsible for what we got, but i do seem to remember the say no to drugs... or..er... i mean say no to high high rise banners everywhere, there was actual marches against the old spencer dock proposal by Roche if memory serves me. Of course they make the final descision but there are also a lot of outside factors, or am i being idiotic?

So i seem to ruffled some feathers, some of you dull kids really need to loosen up.



Have you not noticed by now? paul h writes the same thing in every post!

Yes Devin there is a general theme of common sense:p
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby Rory W » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:51 pm

paul h wrote:ok DDDA are directly resonsible for what we got, but i do seem to remember the say no to drugs... or..er... i mean say no to high high rise banners everywhere, there was actual marches against the old spencer dock proposal by Roche if memory serves me. Of course they make the final descision but there are also a lot of outside factors, or am i being idiotic?

So i seem to ruffled some feathers, some of you dull kids really need to loosen up.




Yes Devin there is a general theme of common sense:p


The old Spencer Dock proposals were rubbish, the DDDA didn't make the final call on it as it was subject to a Judicial review and the developers applied to the city council to develop. Once Dermot Desmond laid the smackdown on the developers, they then came back with a revised proposal that took into account the DDDA and the community groups in the area.

How you think making a pointless Island and building on the campshires is common sense I don't know?
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby paul h » Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:45 pm

This is a quick one as i'm writing on my cell phone. Where's common sense in constantly complaining about the boring docklands and as soon as any unusual idea is floated pardon the pun , as in this proposal, its gets ripped apart. Tell me that. I call it the old man in the bar syndrome, always complaining but as soon as there is sign of change we dont want that either.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby Rory W » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:58 pm

paul h wrote:This is a quick one as i'm writing on my cell phone. Where's common sense in constantly complaining about the boring docklands and as soon as any unusual idea is floated pardon the pun , as in this proposal, its gets ripped apart. Tell me that. I call it the old man in the bar syndrome, always complaining but as soon as there is sign of change we dont want that either.


No as per lack of complaints about the Libeskind theatre and the Calatrava bridge these are considered as good. The complaints about this pointless exercise mean that a lot of us consider it "ill thought out wank"

Seriously - if you can think how this proposal is going to do anything fantastic I'd like to hear it
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby paul h » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:32 am

You ask why, and i ask why not. Leave it at that
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby jimg » Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:03 am

If only you displayed such a positive attitude, paul h. Mostly you seem to fantasize about taking on bogey "serial objectors", shaking up the dull board and championing high buildings no matter what their merits. The reality of your contributions is less impressive than what you fondly imagine.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby paul h » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:00 pm

Mrs jimg handing out the smackdown, i like to see it , you go girl!

Anyways, yes im sure you are correct my contributions are not fantastic, terrible even, lord knows how i reached this number of posts. (jayzus i remember when Heuston gate and u2 tower were only holes in the ground:rolleyes:)
Im am merely a lay man with a interest to what goes on in Dublin
Any place you go in the world you will find nimby's and people who object to anything, but the huge difference is that in Ireland the objectors seem to get their way more often. Nothing new , this has been discussed to death before, but as far as i can see it is true

edit - ftr i did not like ncc hotel tower, well balanced or what
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby jdivision » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:28 pm

A tender for this was posted on etenders on Friday
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby theman » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:14 pm

This is a different project - it is to develop the old graving dock site. Another one that DDDA have being messing about with. Scheme is to build apartments each side of the 3 graving docks.

This is only a PIN notice - not a tender. So they must be getting something ready...unless it is an admin cock up....
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby jdivision » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:43 am

sorry, thought it was too coincidental timewise to be anything else
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby cgcsb » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:50 pm

I'm all for their idea for building a high rise cluster but I'm really stumped by the island idea. Butchuring the urban landscape, damaging the enviornment and eco systems, waisting public money, dissrupting natural currents all for the sake of havin an island in a river, that has roughly the same amount of land as the current site that it'd destroy, has no raison d'etre. Is there actually one good reason why this proposal should go ahead other than showing off and trying to imitate other cities with islands in their rivers eg Paris, London etc? anyone? anyone?
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby df1711 » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:58 pm

bit "dubai palm" syndrome in DCC?? if they are really mad enought to go ahead with something like this, could they have at least made the shape of the island a bit more interesting.-its just a rectangle with water around it! what i dont like about it is the obstruction of the river view while walking/driving along the river, when suddenly there will be office blocks seperating the road and river.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby cubix » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:40 pm

Looks like their pretty serious about this and is not just some "grand plan".Not much of an urban landscape to butcher last time I was down there.Im suprised the liffey even has an ecosystem and "oh no" the natural currents,gime a break!! They have admitted themselves north docklands is boring and repetitive, finally we might be getting something just a little bit exciting and all people can do is moan.I'm convinced the average age on this forum is at least 50.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby Peter Fitz » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:54 pm

cubix wrote:Looks like their pretty serious about this and is not just some "grand plan".Not much of an urban landscape to butcher last time I was down there.Im suprised the liffey even has an ecosystem and "oh no" the natural currents,gime a break!! They have admitted themselves north docklands is boring and repetitive, finally we might be getting something just a little bit exciting and all people can do is moan.I'm convinced the average age on this forum is at least 50.


So why exactly is there a need to break the quay wall, quay side & campshire that has stood for a couple of hundred years ? The Liffey comes in to its own at this point with a consistency & scale that when coupled with the armour of its broad campshires is almost stately. You can have your gimicky canal & high rise pocket if you like just leave the river alone, and for the record I am 27.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby reddy » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:03 pm

The only reason I'd even consider buying somewhere to live on the North side of the quays is the amazing amenity which the south facing Campshires present. Its a great place for a walk or for just sitting on the quay walls.

I'm all for exciting schemes to break the repetition in the area but this is hardly the way to do it.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby gunter » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:59 pm

Agree with that reddy. As well as being a decent south facing sedentary space for most of the year, the North Wall campshire functions very well as an elongated event space during the Docklands Festival in June. I know last year's festival got rained out a bit, but, in general, the Docklands Festival is fast becoming my favorite annual Dublin event.

The grand scale of the river, the generous cobble stoned space, an eclectic mix of musical entertainment, a couple of tall ships, bratwurst stands, a touch of sea air, it's everthing you want from a low key urban event.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby johnglas » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:09 pm

cubix: why do you think conservatism equates with being 50? Obviously you're pre-pubescent and accept every trendy thing you read and are fixated with the 'new' (as in 'nothing under the sun'). Maybe this is just a crap idea.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby Rory W » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:30 pm

cubix wrote:finally we might be getting something just a little bit exciting and all people can do is moan.


Please tell me in what way is this project exciting?
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby notjim » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:42 pm

Well I know why people find it exciting: they have this image of Manhattan with its fantastic skyline seen across water and most particularly the southern tip seen in wideangle from the Staten Island ferry: the stuff of a thousand posters. The idea they have is that this could be that and when it is, we will be them: New Yorkers, dressing in black and having meaningless sex in limos after ligging at glamourous alphabet-city exhibition opening and east village poetry slams. However, Manhattan, par excellence, is a response to context: the grid, the strong zoning, the existing stock of fine valued buildings, the topography, the bed rock, this proposal, in contrast, defies context; it is artificial, inorganic and, ultimately, lame. Ironically, Dublin will have tall buildings surrounded by water and towering over disused, picturesque, harbourworks, just like the lower westside, but it won't be, I hope, on this piecemeal fragment breaking the line of the liffey, it will be where Dublin port is now. And even if the DDDA does go ahead with this gimmickry, we will still be ourselves getting lonely drunk in decrepit pubs before having meaningless sex in front of our computer screens.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby Rusty Cogs » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:06 pm

notjim wrote:Well I know why people find it exciting: they have this image of Manhattan with its fantastic skyline seen across water and most particularly the southern tip seen in wideangle from the Staten Island ferry: the stuff of a thousand posters. The idea they have is that this could be that and when it is, we will be them: New Yorkers, dressing in black and having meaningless sex in limos after ligging at glamourous alphabet-city exhibition opening and east village poetry slams. However, Manhattan, par excellence, is a response to context: the grid, the strong zoning, the existing stock of fine valued buildings, the topography, the bed rock, this proposal, in contrast, defies context; it is artificial, inorganic and, ultimately, lame. Ironically, Dublin will have tall buildings surrounded by water and towering over disused, picturesque, harbourworks, just like the lower westside, but it won't be, I hope, on this piecemeal fragment breaking the line of the liffey, it will be where Dublin port is now. And even if the DDDA does go ahead with this gimmickry, we will still be ourselves getting lonely drunk in decrepit pubs before having meaningless sex in front of our computer screens.


Hopefully not on this site though :p
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby df1711 » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:24 pm

are they actually going to gain any land from this? its looks like any land they gain will be offset by land lost from the new canal.why dont they just build towers on the existing land and save a lot of time and money.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby cgcsb » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:28 pm

cubix wrote:Looks like their pretty serious about this and is not just some "grand plan".Not much of an urban landscape to butcher last time I was down there.Im suprised the liffey even has an ecosystem and "oh no" the natural currents,gime a break!! They have admitted themselves north docklands is boring and repetitive, finally we might be getting something just a little bit exciting and all people can do is moan.I'm convinced the average age on this forum is at least 50.


There'e no nead to get personal here. And for your information, I'm18
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby Rusty Cogs » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:35 pm

Well for any 18 - 80 year olds who are interested, there is a presentation on this development as well as the 'new' plans for the North Docklands (read, increase in height restrictions) by the DDDA in the Clarion Hotel tonight at 7.30pm (Tuesday, Mar 25th). It's aimed at the local residents but I'm sure the DDDA would be happy to accomodate all interested parties. I'll be going along to see where my tax dollars are heading over the next 10 years ;) .

The Clarion is between Jury's and Spencer Dock on the North Quay's.
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Re: Buildings on stilts in the Liffey

Postby paul h » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:26 pm

Rory W wrote:Please tell me in what way is this project exciting?



There's a new canal.
Maybe exciting is too strong a word but its certainly interesting
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