dublin airport terminal

Does the architectural quality appear low?

Poll ended at Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:01 pm

Yes
17
40%
No
26
60%
 
Total votes : 43

Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby a boyle » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:52 pm

please don't misunderstand me i think things are bad . but i think that the terrible problems are being talked up because in serves the DAA interests.

There is no actual need for a fourth runway for instance. If the terminal ran efficiently the runway can be work up to thirty million , as against 20 now. To do this we would need to bulldoze the entire thing.

The idea of building in a modular fashion is so obvious that i cannot understand why it is not being done. A quick look at google earth and you can see acres of pristine space ready for a modularly built terminal in one long line.

Behind all the problems lies one single political fact. Bertie ahern is not going to sack thousands of people. plain and straight. That would be the inevitable outocme to sorting out the airport. Consider how much more effort is going in to keep essentially four tiny terminals in operation.

It won't happen anytime soon
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby PVC King » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:54 pm

Seamus O'G wrote:And by the time they put the tent in it'll probably be needed for the Ryder Cup.


Good point was it purchased or leased and if so does the lessor have an exclusive break option on same?
PVC King
 

Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby Keen » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:22 pm

darkman wrote:Dublin really dosnt need two airports. Dublin Airport and the space it inhabits is under-utilised. There is only 20 million passengers a year going through the Airport:)


sorry for not reading the whole thread here and butting in...

i was in berlin the last 3 days and had checked out the various options for flying there, Berlin has 3 airports with a combined passenger figure of 15.5 million. That is for 3 yes 3 airports...Dublin has 18.5 m annually and this is increasing. I think it's high time for a MAJOR expansion to combat the present and the future. i arrived yesterday into a quasi-prefab terminal outpost and had to walk 20 minutes to baggage reclaim...did anyone notice also that the planes are taxi-ingin further from the main building? And that buses seem to be in operation but in my last 2 flights this month i have not had the opportunity to board one? I don't know what is going on but it needs a huge boost to remain a credible place to do business...
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby Keen » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:32 pm

a boyle wrote:this is going to sound like heresy , but i don't think the airport is that busy. hear me out! In almost every airport i have ever been i have always been pretty uncomfortable.

Whenever you check in you are ALWAYS surrounded by far too many people. Whenever you are in the security queue you are ALWAYS surrounded by far too many people, and whenever you are picking up your bags you are surrounded by far too many people. I will admit there have been exceptions but in the main unless the terminal is enormous i have never liked being in an airport.

I fly from dublin at least three times a year and have always had no problem. I do need to point out that i have a very strict approach to the airport. I arrive ON TIME. not early not late , exactly 40 minutes before the flight. I always catch the end of the check in queue (or if at all possible pack a small bag and carry it on board). I then make my way direct to the gate and sit with paper in hand. NO stopping!!.

What i am trying to get at is that i think the airport problems are being hyped up and exacerbated by the dublin airport authority because it is in their interest that the airport look to be bursting at the seams! In this way they can keep adding on little extensions. WHY ? because if you took a look around the terminal any reasonable person would conclude that the best thing to do next is to simply demolish the entire thing and rebuild. They are petrified that somebody anybody will build a new terminal on the east side (where there is only grass). This is because it would be very easy to build a terminal that was so much more efficient that the current one would have to close. it is in bertie's constituency so don't expect anything to happen. the PDs would love to sort out all our transport problems but bertie will have none of it.


i sometimes fly 3 times a month and have been to 14 airports in the last year, and Dublin has been the busiest of the last 3 in have been (Manchester,East MIdlands,Berlin Schönefeld) by i would say a factor of 3

no matter what time you go there is it ibusy, huge numbers of late flights and other low cost airline are straming in with regular flights, lots of polish flights by almost unheard of operators. I had to Queue 25 minutes for a taxi one night along with 200 people as there was no other way to the city centre. Never ever would this happen in any other comparable city.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby darkman » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:47 pm

Keen wrote:sorry for not reading the whole thread here and butting in...

i was in berlin the last 3 days and had checked out the various options for flying there, Berlin has 3 airports with a combined passenger figure of 15.5 million. That is for 3 yes 3 airports...Dublin has 18.5 m annually and this is increasing. I think it's high time for a MAJOR expansion to combat the present and the future. i arrived yesterday into a quasi-prefab terminal outpost and had to walk 20 minutes to baggage reclaim...did anyone notice also that the planes are taxi-ingin further from the main building? And that buses seem to be in operation but in my last 2 flights this month i have not had the opportunity to board one? I don't know what is going on but it needs a huge boost to remain a credible place to do business...


I think we all want Dublin to become a hub Airport. It cant do that unless it gains critical mass i.e new terminals, new facilities, the extra runway etc. If you were to build a second airport, our main airport would lose out IMO. 20 million is not alot of passengers for one airport for those who think it is. The current terminal is inadequate, not the Airport itself.......
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby PVC King » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:50 pm

The failure to deliver a second runway is a major obstacle as is US protectionism with the amount of european routes served cross ticketing via Dublin would be really successful if flights to major US cities such as Dallas, Miami, Seattle and New Orleans were available. Most of the new EU states have limited if any direct flights to the US and those that do only appear to serve places like JFK LAX and Chicago

The biggest obstacle of all is the lack of vision and problem solving skills from both Aer Rianta and their successors

But you are right it does start at the terminal
PVC King
 

Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby kite » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:41 pm

Frank Taylor wrote:Successful airports spend most of their lives under construction. You'd imagine that a requirement when building an airport would be to design it in an extensible fashion. Dublin Airport looks like a bunch of misfit buildings dropped at random from a height .


:confused: Flying into Nice, Cote d’ Azur at anytime of year is like landing in the lobby of a five star hotel yet the airport is always under redevelopment (although you would never realize it, 8-12 million passengers pa), the ONLY hassle one would encounter is if you need to go to the car rental bays (a two min walk) where you may get approached by guy’s in Armani suits looking to borrow 20-50 euros until tomorrow!!
No tents, no hassle, no dirt, no rip offs (at least not from the Airport Authority),…what is going wrong in Dublin, or Cork and Shannon for that matter??
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby a boyle » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:03 am

what is going wrong is very simple , no economics. It is only relatively recently that the idea of running airlines for profit has come about with the starting of ryanair (well in europe at least)

What is now beginning to happen, thanks to the pds prodding, is that airports are run for profit. This is what i was trying to allude to in my previous posts . Dublin airport is petrified of any competition as it would be ruined. They are also petrified of having to build on the nice green space to the east (much cheaper) because the new terminal will make the old one look so bad it will have to close.

All my previous posts were trying to say was that considering the fact that terminal is full to the gills , it is working remarkably well. And all talk of crisis only leads to stop gap measures which only plays into the hands of the DAA. As it is section A and it's distant addon should be demolished as they are just crap.

The solution is simple two new large terminals designed to keep the planes parralel to the runways. one terminal on the north of the eastertn side , facing the current terminal, and a second terminal on the western side.

But this is why it is not happening : aerlingus employs 3000 , and has to pay pensions for 8000. ryanair employs <3000 and flys many many more people. Aer rianta (it is still aer rianta as the airports are not yet seperated!) employs thousands. And those thousands all live in one constituency. If they get fired that T.D. gets fired , and that T.D. happens to be the taoseach. So in conclusion this whole thread is a waste of time till the next election.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby corcaighboy » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:25 am

Airports are a natural monopoly and that is why the break-up of Aer Rianta into three seperate and distinct entities made sense. For Dublin it would allow them to concertrate on building a premier airport and national gateway for the country. For Cork and Shannon, it would allow them to take charge of their own destiny. Competition between the three airports would also be a good thing, keeping each airport on its toes.
Nevertheless, we have now ended up with an airports authority that is 'semi split', with one management (!) and three different boards! Only in Ireland.
Futhermore, here in Cork we have a new terminal (finished but not open...and no date for an opening yet!) that has one only airbridge...so the main gripe that passengers had was getting wet when walking to the distant aircraft stands is not really addressed at all. I am sure most passengers would prefer a more modest looking terminal if they could simply ensure that passengers are not soaked to the skin when boarding a place. Meanwhile Dublin remains the most chaotic and dirtiest airport in Western Europe. I just fail to understand how Ireland puts up with this nonsense. Revolutions were started over less
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby Keen » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:27 am

corcaighboy wrote:Airports are a natural monopoly and that is why the break-up of Aer Rianta into three seperate and distinct entities made sense. For Dublin it would allow them to concertrate on building a premier airport and national gateway for the country. For Cork and Shannon, it would allow them to take charge of their own destiny. Competition between the three airports would also be a good thing, keeping each airport on its toes.
Nevertheless, we have now ended up with an airports authority that is 'semi split', with one management (!) and three different boards! Only in Ireland.
Futhermore, here in Cork we have a new terminal (finished but not open...and no date for an opening yet!) that has one only airbridge...so the main gripe that passengers had was getting wet when walking to the distant aircraft stands is not really addressed at all. I am sure most passengers would prefer a more modest looking terminal if they could simply ensure that passengers are not soaked to the skin when boarding a place. Meanwhile Dublin remains the most chaotic and dirtiest airport in Western Europe. I just fail to understand how Ireland puts up with this nonsense. Revolutions were started over less


i agree corcaighboy,

"I just fail to understand how Ireland puts up with this nonsense. Revolutions were started over less"

between the intercity, metro, port tunnel works and the airport i think a revolution is long overdue. I mean, if this was US, time is money and we are pissing money downa drain unless we get our act together. How can we fail to see that as a society? Why are proposals not being more publicised? Your average Joe is not going to put perssure on the govt. unless he has something to fight for.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby PVC King » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:07 am

I wouldn't agree on a revolution just yet but give it another 5 years of 'The worst government in the history of the state' (CJ Haughey January 2006) you may find mass emmigration back on the agenda when the footloose sector find that Moldova has a better infrastructure.

Was in the Airport this morning and used gates A64-71 for the first time yes Dublin Airport has finally decended into Portacabin City with an advised 7 minutes walk from the assembled portacabins to the edge of the existing pier A.

Are we living in a third world country?

The fruit and veg are a little expensive for this level of service
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby KerryBog2 » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:20 am

Thomond Park wrote:Was in the Airport this morning and used gates A64-71 for the first time yes Dublin Airport has finally decended into Portacabin City with an advised 7 minutes walk from


Agreed. Went thro' 69 to Luton last week. Felt as though I was walking there. No warnings at check in about the lenght of time to get there, you are a fitter person than I if you walk it in 7 minutes! An echo box, nothing to deaden the frantic footfalls of people rushing for their flights. Most developed countries have trolleys at airports, we have them in hospitals.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby Deadonarrival » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:18 pm

Flew into the cattle shed that is Dublin Airpport this morning from Porto - the contrast in experience couldn't be more different (and we're the ones enjoying a 10 year boom?)

Porto - a simple 30 minute metro ride costing 1.40 to a sleek, contemporary terminal (see how pretty it looks http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4539)

Dublin - portacabin sheds stretching for what seems like miles into the mayhem of baggage reclaim as several planeloads of people crowded 4 deep waiting for their luggage...then onto a stinky bus (5euros!) which had to be diverted because of traffic caused by the wexford/kilkenny match

if we have any national pride - or pity for harrased travellers - the current terminal should be razed and replaced immediatly
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby kite » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:44 pm

Deadonarrival wrote:Flew into the cattle shed that is Dublin Airpport this morning from Porto - the contrast in experience couldn't be more different (and we're the ones enjoying a 10 year boom?)

Porto - a simple 30 minute metro ride costing 1.40 to a sleek, contemporary terminal (see how pretty it looks http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4539)

Dublin - portacabin sheds stretching for what seems like miles into the mayhem of baggage reclaim as several planeloads of people crowded 4 deep waiting for their luggage...then onto a stinky bus (5euros!) which had to be diverted because of traffic caused by the wexford/kilkenny match

if we have any national pride - or pity for harrased travellers - the current terminal should be razed and replaced immediatly


:o Could not agree more…traveling regularly between both Dublin and Cork “INTERNATIONAL” airports to Nice, France (not the main or second airport in France by any means) would make you wonder what dub and ork would be like if we were not the richest, fastest growing economy in Europe??
See Nice and cringe….
http://www.nice.aeroport.fr/include/default.asp?l=2
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby PVC King » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:13 am

Warning on metro airport location

July 10, 2006 07:47
The success of Dublin's metro will be compromised if the station at Dublin Airport is not located underneath the terminal facilities, Dublin Chamber has warned the Government.

The Rail Procurement Agency is currently finalising plans for the routing of Metro North and the favoured option has a station 700m away from the airport terminal at the Great Southern hotel.

Chamber CEO Gina Quin said that the metro will alleviate congestion around the city, but if the station is located almost one kilometre from the terminal, as is proposed, customers will not make the switch from their cars.


She said unless the more costly underground option is developed, the massive economic and social benefits the project promises to deliver to the country over the coming decades will be put at risk.


I have never been a great fan of the RPA in particular the way that Luas was delivered but in the case of the above surely it is essential that the second terminal be clarified prior to a decision being made.

Should a new terminal be located on either the present location of Cargo Terminal 1 or SRS Techniks then the RPA have this spot on. However if it is to be located on the footprint of portacabin city then this would constitute the worst transport decision since .........................
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby The Denouncer » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:59 am

Originally posted by Deadonarrival
Flew into the cattle shed that is Dublin Airpport this morning from Porto - the contrast in experience couldn't be more different (and we're the ones enjoying a 10 year boom?)


You just have to keep repeating to yourself "We're in a period of transition, we're in a period of transition.."..however playing catch-up becomes more and more infuriating when the rest of the developed world also moves forward leaving us forever in its wake. Going through Dublin Airport is an embarrassing experience, and this morning is was on the train from Donabate to Grand Canal Dock and some Spanish students got on at Donabate - you get the feeling that nobody from any western country is too impressed by what they see.
Chris Lowry in the Herald was particularly scathing after his trip to Germany just how advanced things are over there compared to here - after a trip to Chicago I was amazed at the cleanliness of the place, not a piece of litter to be seen anywhere! However it was always a mess in Ireland and things aren't going to change overnight, no matter how rich the nation is.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby Frank Taylor » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:06 pm

KerryBog2 wrote:Agreed. Went thro' 69 to Luton last week. Felt as though I was walking there. No warnings at check in about the lenght of time to get there, you are a fitter person than I if you walk it in 7 minutes! An echo box, nothing to deaden the frantic footfalls of people rushing for their flights. Most developed countries have trolleys at airports, we have them in hospitals.
KB2
I timed it the other evening. 4 minutes walk to the edge of pier A, 3.5 minutes walk to get past passport control (no queue at night). 2.5 minutes walk to the arrivals hall (no baggage). 9 minutes in total. It is very unpleasant. There are insufficient seats at the end of the new pier so lots of people are standing. No air conditioning. It's another reason to fly aer lingus who can often match ryanair on price these days, particularly if you travel at short notice.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby a boyle » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:38 pm

the plain and simple fact is that the whole current terminal need to be demolished. It has been extended and extended too many times.

If you look at the airport in google map , it really shows up how wastefull the entire airport is. The is ooodles of fresh minted grass waiting to be built upon on the eastern side of the airport. What is simply needed is a long straight building running parallel to the main runway, not this hodge podge.

Indeed the airport development plan seeks to change the whole organisation into an east west system. We should be putting a long term car park to the east of the M1 and another to the north east of of the finglas m50 junction. then run a spur from the belfast train line. east west.

So whole thing would go something like this: finglas m50 junction -> long term carpark West --> short term carpark West ---> east terminal --> underpass ---> new west terminala (reorientated to be parralel with the runway) ---> short tem carpark East ---> M1 over pass (taxi rank)---> long term carpark East ---> belfast train line.

Then remove all car acces from the airport ---> that's how you get things moving.

It is worth noting that the development plans points out that the reason for the second runway is that the terminal is too inneficient to make full use of the current runway. This is why i think we should avoid letting the Daa talk about the airport as a crisis, because it just lets them add little bits to the terminal, and reinforces the lodsided development, instead of sorting it out once and for all!
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Pier D

Postby Peter Fitz » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:27 pm

Anyone any idea of what Pier D will look like ? can't find any site plans to see just how close it will be to the original terminal, just bits & pieces about this curved walkway running on the same line as the original building itself ?? There's a fairly shit render on DAA's website but found this on PMG.ie ...

Image

It seems SOM are responsible for most of the 'masterplan' (including terminal 2) not quite sure if they are involved with Pier D ...

Any info / thoughts / comments ! ?
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby adhoc » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:12 pm

This is a slightly outdated render of Pier D - the airbridges featured will not be built at this stage , although permission has been granted for them.

You can also make out the two pylons of the cable-stayed, curved walkway which will run through the old executive carpark to the front of the Old Central Terminal Building connecting to Terminal One somewhere in the long corridor (with travelators) between the Garda Immigration booths and the duty-free shop for Pier A.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby a boyle » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:15 pm

this extension is crazy ,it is a twenty minute walk to the end , and the main problem remain the main building is too small
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby PVC King » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:37 pm

The term 'eye of a needle' certainly seems to sum up access consideration
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby rebel_city » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:24 pm

They should sort out the shed that is Pier A also! It's quite a walk!! And is bad impression to 1st time visitors to Ireland via Dublin!
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby ihateawake » Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:24 pm

adhoc wrote:This is a slightly outdated render of Pier D - the airbridges featured will not be built at this stage , although permission has been granted for them.


Do you mean that air bridges similar to those shown will not be built or that there will not be air bridges at all. if so, is that a cost cutting measure? A lack of air bridges seems unprofessional and unimpressive to me, something I was hoping we would get this time round with new developments.

more renderings of walkway...
http://www.capitasymonds.co.uk/whatwedo/ourprojects/projectsearch/project.asp?projectid=696
Image
Image
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby archipig » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:16 pm

Terminal 2 is being designed by Parr Architects.

http://www.parrarchitects.com/
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