Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby cgcsb » Mon May 25, 2009 10:48 pm

was there on wednesday, it was much the same
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Cathal Dunne » Wed May 27, 2009 2:24 pm

cgcsb wrote:was there on wednesday, it was much the same


I can see why, the website for the building has a webcam up at the top showing daily and hourly progress on site. Link. The liftshaft, which is the only visible part of the building from street-level, hasn't been built upon in the last few weeks. From the looks of it they are building below street level and it'll only be when this building work rises above street level that changes will become apparent.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:02 pm

Hey Gang

I came accross this website:

http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://kgi.ie/files/Projects/monte_vetro_06.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.kgi.ie/index.php%3Fp%3Dprojects%26id%3D1072&usg=__DmDwqg4d11dIFVFq__YlWxSGDeM=&h=689&w=516&sz=120&hl=en&start=15&um=1&tbnid=Ma01LC7vND4fUM:&tbnh=139&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmontevetro%2Bdublin%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

It mentions that the lift shaft is 76 metres in height! I know there will be a plant room above the top floor proper. But that still would not account for the extra height. Could they be counting below ground floors in the overall height?

C
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby rob mc » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:07 pm

thebig C wrote:Hey Gang

I came accross this website:

http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://kgi.ie/files/Projects/monte_vetro_06.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.kgi.ie/index.php%3Fp%3Dprojects%26id%3D1072&usg=__DmDwqg4d11dIFVFq__YlWxSGDeM=&h=689&w=516&sz=120&hl=en&start=15&um=1&tbnid=Ma01LC7vND4fUM:&tbnh=139&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmontevetro%2Bdublin%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

It mentions that the lift shaft is 76 metres in height! I know there will be a plant room above the top floor proper. But that still would not account for the extra height. Could they be counting below ground floors in the overall height?

C


I'm not sure,sounds a bit odd,could just be a typo cos i'm pretty sure its only 63 metres tall.

So is this officially the tallest building in Dublin or what?there is so much bloody mystery surrounding its height :D
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:30 pm

rob mc wrote:I'm not sure,sounds a bit odd,could just be a typo cos i'm pretty sure its only 63 metres tall.

So is this officially the tallest building in Dublin or what?there is so much bloody mystery surrounding its height :D


Yeah, even at 63m it would be Dublins tallest! So, its taken over 40 years to climb just 4m!!!

C
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Montevetro updates anyone?

Postby darkman » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:11 pm

The 76m high lift shafts are in place (put up in just 18 days) - it looks like this will be a big structure.


Image


Image


The building is, apparently, six weeks ahead of schedule. They have a web cam on the website but I don't think the image has changed for a few weeks. Any chance of some picture updates on a high rise that is actually going ahead?;)

Treasury Holdings still have no prospective tenants for the building but are going to finish this and then bring two more large high rise shemes to the market in 2010/2011. The can do attitude is refreshing.

Can a mod change the title of this thread to this development:confused:
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby cgcsb » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:28 pm

I was under the impression google were gonna take the whole thing. Can't remember where I read it. Their current offices are in 2 buildings across the street and are a bit squashed in apparently
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Contraband » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:53 pm

Yeah I also heard that Google were planning to take over the entire building, but agh can't remember where I heard it either!
Is the building getting any taller than the pictures shown above?
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby darkman » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:31 pm

The steel is going up according to the webcam

http://www.montevetro.ie/webcam/Webcam.aspx
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Keen » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:55 pm

i noticed that today too, should be visible above ground from the DART stop now
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby aj » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:15 am

Keen wrote:i noticed that today too, should be visible above ground from the DART stop now


the steel is very visible from the dart. its only to be a pretty impressive fram when its up!
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Peter Fitz » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:42 am

aj wrote:the steel is very visible from the dart. its only to be a pretty impressive fram when its up!


The bulk of this thing will be massive, and not in a good way. Leaving dublin port on a ferry during the week, the lift shaft alone is already the most significant structure visible when looking back towards the city.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby gunter » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:06 pm

I wonder were people this excited when Hawkin's House was being built?
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby darkman » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:45 pm

gunter wrote:I wonder were people this excited when Hawkin's House was being built?


Come on....it's hardly Hawkins House:rolleyes:
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby rob mc » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:18 pm

I'm interested to know if you can see Monte from most parts of Dublin or do you actualy have to go out of your way to see it?

Id love if it was just visible from liberty hall, then you would have liberty hall, The ulster bank buildings, hopefully soon tara street tower, and then monte vetro, all of similar height streching across Dublin. Forgive me for getting aroused right now:D:D:D
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby johnglas » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:37 pm

Aroused? Is that literally or figuratively? (Big phallic structures and all that...)
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby rob mc » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:06 pm

johnglas wrote:Aroused? Is that literally or figuratively? (Big phallic structures and all that...)


Well seeing that Ireland is a highrise virgin i'm getting pretty damn aroused right now:D

It's 4 metres taller than liberty hall man, a WHOLE 4 METRES!!!!
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:55 am

rob mc wrote:Well seeing that Ireland is a highrise virgin i'm getting pretty damn aroused right now:D

It's 4 metres taller than liberty hall man, a WHOLE 4 METRES!!!!


That such interest is even possible for a relatively small structure shows you how FUCKING NUTS Dublin City Council is. The whole of the docklands area should have been this height, for both aesthetic and economic reasons.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:07 am

rumpelstiltskin wrote:That such interest is even possible for a relatively small structure shows you how FUCKING NUTS Dublin City Council is. The whole of the docklands area should have been this height, for both aesthetic and economic reasons.


You are spot on as regards the economic reasons. As Walter Chrysler said "Skyscrapers are a way of making the land pay"...its that simple. However, I think there was huge arrogance which crept into pampered planning authorities during the boom years. They seemed to think that we Irish could do things our own way and were exempt from the normal and natural laws of economics. Put simply if land costs 50 million per acre only allowing 6 stories is going to limit the returns and push up rents, land values and demand!

C
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby reddy » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:35 am

thebig C wrote:You are spot on as regards the economic reasons. As Walter Chrysler said "Skyscrapers are a way of making the land pay"...its that simple. However, I think there was huge arrogance which crept into pampered planning authorities during the boom years. They seemed to think that we Irish could do things our own way and were exempt from the normal and natural laws of economics. Put simply if land costs 50 million per acre only allowing 6 stories is going to limit the returns and push up rents, land values and demand!

C


That's not at all true. The evolution of the skyscraper lies in a distinct lack of space, ie being forced upwards due to the constrictions on Manhattan island or the loop in Chicago.

Demand here never outstripped supply. Land only cost 50 million per acre due to a flawed planning system which allowed a small number of individuals to horde land and drive up costs by rezoning on a wholesale rather than case by case basis. Rampant speculation was the only thing which underpinned Irish land prices, not demand.

Your logic suggests that just because Sean Dunne paid a ridiculous sum of money for land which any sane business person would have known was an incredible risk, he should be allowed plonk a 30 story skyscraper regardless of the effects. (incidentally I thought the skyscraper was beautiful - the rest of the scheme was trash and would have significantly harmed the city centre).

There is definitely a case to be made for some tall buildings which provide the large floor space demanded by the worlds largest companies. We need to provide the infrastructure necessary to attract these companies to Ireland.

Their location is crucial. The docklands in Dublin were intended to be a residential quarter and as they stand they are beginning to achieve a density which matches best practice models across Europe. Go any taller and you begin to alienate families, exacerbating and justifying the exodus to placeless suburbs.

We could definitely build a couple of beautiful tall buildings in the locations that have been identified - The U2 tower site, Heuston etc but they are not the be all and end all of a city's ambition or a natural and inevitable result of 'the market'.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby johnglas » Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:47 pm

Amen to all that, reddy, but we've had this particular debate before...
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby darkman » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:17 pm

Image

http://www.kgi.ie/index.php?p=projects&id=1072

It's fairly prominent but definately not overbearing, yet. Have to wait till the steel core is erected to get a true sense of it's bulk. I agree it's bulkiness could be a slight issue.

Image

Image
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:57 pm

reddy wrote:That's not at all true. The evolution of the skyscraper lies in a distinct lack of space, ie being forced upwards due to the constrictions on Manhattan island or the loop in Chicago.

Demand here never outstripped supply. Land only cost 50 million per acre due to a flawed planning system which allowed a small number of individuals to horde land and drive up costs by rezoning on a wholesale rather than case by case basis. Rampant speculation was the only thing which underpinned Irish land prices, not demand.

Your logic suggests that just because Sean Dunne paid a ridiculous sum of money for land which any sane business person would have known was an incredible risk, he should be allowed plonk a 30 story skyscraper regardless of the effects. (incidentally I thought the skyscraper was beautiful - the rest of the scheme was trash and would have significantly harmed the city centre).

There is definitely a case to be made for some tall buildings which provide the large floor space demanded by the worlds largest companies. We need to provide the infrastructure necessary to attract these companies to Ireland.

Their location is crucial. The docklands in Dublin were intended to be a residential quarter and as they stand they are beginning to achieve a density which matches best practice models across Europe. Go any taller and you begin to alienate families, exacerbating and justifying the exodus to placeless suburbs.

We could definitely build a couple of beautiful tall buildings in the locations that have been identified - The U2 tower site, Heuston etc but they are not the be all and end all of a city's ambition or a natural and inevitable result of 'the market'.


Reddy....granted the confines of Manhatten and the Loop played a part, however, alot of cities worldwide have issues of space, not all have skyscrapers. Building heights would still not have soared if it wasn't for the Economics of demand. You are in danger of kind of endorsing the "build out not up" arguement........but don't get me started:)

Pretty much agree with you on the Jurys hotel site though!:D

C
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby reddy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:37 am

thebig C wrote:Reddy....granted the confines of Manhatten and the Loop played a part, however, alot of cities worldwide have issues of space, not all have skyscrapers. Building heights would still not have soared if it wasn't for the Economics of demand. You are in danger of kind of endorsing the "build out not up" arguement........but don't get me started:)

Pretty much agree with you on the Jurys hotel site though!:D

C


Its the law of SUPPLY and demand - Its an intimate and inverse relationship between the two and only when low supply and high demand coincide are buildings forced upwards. But like I said - Rampant speculation was the only thing which underpinned Irish land prices, not demand so you can probably scratch 'natural' economics in this argument.

I'm not at all endorsing the build out argument - I'm completely against it. What I'm saying is that if we don't achieve densities which are tolerable to family living we will continue to drive people back out of the city to find their little patch of suburban lawn.

However I think like Johnglas said we've had this debate before and it could run on and on.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Cathal Dunne » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:27 pm

I've been checking into the live coverage of the building of Montevetro and the steel frame is becoming extensive at this stage. We should get some idea of how bulky it's going to be when this covers the central lift-shafts.

It certainly is piercing the canopy of existing buildings around the the docklands area.
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