Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby johnglas » Sat May 09, 2009 9:06 pm

Done! Who can resist the digit of reason?
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby dave123 » Sat May 09, 2009 10:37 pm

I'm already excited about the oother propasal at the boland site cant thy put another 10 floors on it. It seems we are afraid to go over 30 floors why?

We need to grow up,, and yes that even means the buildings.:)
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Keen » Sat May 09, 2009 11:38 pm

johnglas wrote:Superfluous; it's OK to discuss HR, but the obsession with measured height is, well, phallist at the very least. (Except of course that dicks stick out and not up!)


Ah now, what's wrong with throwing in structural facts as well as opinions? TBH it is very solemn to be discussing 'will it or won't it be over 60 metres tall' especially after my recent trip to New York, but the fact of the matter is that Liberty Hall has been the tallest building in Dublin for over 40 years. 63 metres breaks the monotony of high-rise (pff) structures that have randomly gone up in Dublin (Santry Cross, Alto Vetro, Canary Dwarf) A new tallest is a new tallest.
In other cities a building like this would not make the news. Maybe if a building of 60 floors in an otherwise medium rise city would create a stir, but this is Dublin and we have to play the card we are dealt.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby johnglas » Sun May 10, 2009 12:17 am

OK, I may be missing something, but I just don't see what is so magical about 'breaking' some imaginary barrier. Never mind how tall it is, is it any good?
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Sun May 10, 2009 12:27 am

johnglas wrote:thebigC: and the C is for...?


Well....if its the C word I think you are thinking of.......my ex gf would definately agreee in terms of scale!!!:))

You meant Cunt right:))
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Sun May 10, 2009 12:29 am

dave123 wrote:I'm already excited about the oother propasal at the boland site cant thy put another 10 floors on it. It seems we are afraid to go over 30 floors why?

We need to grow up,, and yes that even means the buildings.:)


Exactly.....when they chop floors off buildings it can make them look very sqat!
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Sun May 10, 2009 12:34 am

Keen wrote:Ah now, what's wrong with throwing in structural facts as well as opinions? TBH it is very solemn to be discussing 'will it or won't it be over 60 metres tall' especially after my recent trip to New York, but the fact of the matter is that Liberty Hall has been the tallest building in Dublin for over 40 years. 63 metres breaks the monotony of high-rise (pff) structures that have randomly gone up in Dublin (Santry Cross, Alto Vetro, Canary Dwarf) A new tallest is a new tallest.
In other cities a building like this would not make the news. Maybe if a building of 60 floors in an otherwise medium rise city would create a stir, but this is Dublin and we have to play the card we are dealt.


Too right its a big deal. Particularly, when you consider the ammount of money that was sloshing around for a few years, its frankly remarkable that not even one or two buildings crept through planning that exceeded Liberty Hall in height.

I think its because there is such a stigma in Dublin around this issue that subsumes everything else once a proposal is in any sense taller then average. For example, I think if The Elysian had been proposed for Dublin...it wouldn't have got further then ABP!
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby johnglas » Sun May 10, 2009 11:25 am

Surely in the case of the Boland's Mill bldg that sets the precedent for the height in its immediate vicinity; any new development (assuming the mill is kept and not swept away in some neo-modernist (i.e. old-fashioned) frenzy) should complement it rather than swamp it. There are plenty of riverside locations for signal high-rises; this is not one of them.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Andrew Duffy » Mon May 11, 2009 1:06 pm

Boland's Mill is an extremely ugly, derelict piece of 1950s industrial equipment that would have been demolished this year if it were not for the inevitable property market collapse. New buildings should certainly be well designed and appropriate to their setting, but should not be required to complement a structure that is both condemned and undeserving.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby rob mc » Mon May 11, 2009 5:53 pm

dave123 wrote:I'm already excited about the oother propasal at the boland site cant thy put another 10 floors on it. It seems we are afraid to go over 30 floors why?

We need to grow up,, and yes that even means the buildings.:)


Haha,slow down there mate,we have to get past 16 floors first!

Lets just take it one baby step at a time :D
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby johnglas » Mon May 11, 2009 7:28 pm

I think the main B'sM bldg is a lot older than the 1950s and does deserve retention (and respect); there may well be additional elements that need not be retained and clearly these could be replaced if necessary. One just wonders whether any replacements would be respected in 10 years, never mind 60+.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Andrew Duffy » Mon May 11, 2009 9:54 pm

Boland's mill consists of two late Victorian stone workshops facing Ringsend Road and the inner dock which are protected; two semi-detached Victorian houses on Barrow Street which are also protected and are in scandalously poor condition; various smaller portected warehouse on the interior of the compound; and finally two interlinked concrete silos of 1940s, '50s or '60s vintage. The silos are of absolutely no architectural merit whatsoever, unlike some other silos in Dublin and Cork's docks with subtle Art Deco features. One is also very evidently constructed of thin shuttered concrete, which leads me to doubt that it could support internal floors even it it were possible to make it look attractive as part of a conversion. There is a great photo in the first post of this thread that shows all four large buildings, and one further down of the houses on Barrow Street: http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=2506

While the rejected proposal for the site deserved to be rejected due to being bland and repetitive, I wish a better one had made it over the line before the commercial proprty market made it unviable. Now there will be a huge derelict complex on my street for yet another decade.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby johnglas » Mon May 11, 2009 11:09 pm

Very fair points, but in an overheated market there is always a tendency to over-egg the floorspace (and go too high?) and ignore any inconvenient 'heritage' in the way. Recessions (so we are told) don't last forever and there is now a breathing-space to develop the site in a more sensitive (but still comercially-viable) way.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Andrew Duffy » Mon May 11, 2009 11:59 pm

I hope so. In the meantime, when the sky is overcast and the mood dark there is an intriguing juxtaposition between the rotting concrete of Bolands and the hulking services shaft of the building just down the road. That one could go either way - Some of the renders give it a Miesian appearance while others make it look like sixteen floors of just-above-the-minimum-required-to-get-permission blandness.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Tue May 12, 2009 11:06 am

Andrew Duffy wrote:Boland's mill consists of two late Victorian stone workshops facing Ringsend Road and the inner dock which are protected; two semi-detached Victorian houses on Barrow Street which are also protected and are in scandalously poor condition; various smaller portected warehouse on the interior of the compound; and finally two interlinked concrete silos of 1940s, '50s or '60s vintage. The silos are of absolutely no architectural merit whatsoever, unlike some other silos in Dublin and Cork's docks with subtle Art Deco features. One is also very evidently constructed of thin shuttered concrete, which leads me to doubt that it could support internal floors even it it were possible to make it look attractive as part of a conversion. There is a great photo in the first post of this thread that shows all four large buildings, and one further down of the houses on Barrow Street: http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=2506

While the rejected proposal for the site deserved to be rejected due to being bland and repetitive, I wish a better one had made it over the line before the commercial proprty market made it unviable. Now there will be a huge derelict complex on my street for yet another decade.


Looking at the rejected proposal........it looks suspiciously similar to what is now being constructed on the Monte Vetro site. Anybody notice this??

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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Tue May 12, 2009 11:14 am

Obviously, the Victorian Mill/Grain stores should be kept. Not only are they very attractive, but those types of buildings can make great quirky office areas or loft apartments.

As for the 50's 60's grain silos, I think they could be swept away. They are very overbearing and of little merit. Being built in a time of austerity they are also probably of dubious construction quality are other posters have mentioned. If they were to be retained, there is an example in Copenhagen of a former Carlsberg silo being used as the core of a cylindrical apartment building. I think its about 80m. I will try posting pics here later.

Also, I came across another example on Skyscrapercities from the Czech Republic, likewise the building couldn't support many internal floors, so a modernist residence was built on the uppermost floors of the mill building. I think somebody has already posted this somewhere on archiseek.

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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby cgcsb » Wed May 13, 2009 6:25 pm

The new controll tower in Dublin Airport is set to become the tallest structure in Ireland (that's not one of those bare steel frame antenna things (I'm having a blonde day)) it'll be over 80 meters high
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Keen » Wed May 13, 2009 8:40 pm

cgcsb wrote:The new controll tower in Dublin Airport is set to become the tallest structure in Ireland (that's not one of those bare steel frame antenna things (I'm having a blonde day)) it'll be over 80 meters high


well tallest 'habitable' structure anyway
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Pepsi » Thu May 14, 2009 4:42 pm

interesting. any images of this tower?
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby cgcsb » Fri May 15, 2009 11:47 am

I'm not sure if construction has started or not. I believe the reason for it is that the runway is being obscured from the current control tower because of T2 so the new one must be 80 metres high. That's one building that the council can't insist has a few metres lopped off it.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby fergalr » Fri May 15, 2009 5:36 pm

The airport isn't in the Dublin SE ward... so the objections would be less shrill and accompanied by fewer SC barristers in any case.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Sat May 16, 2009 12:59 pm

fergalr wrote:The airport isn't in the Dublin SE ward... so the objections would be less shrill and accompanied by fewer SC barristers in any case.


Yes....and ABP are very zealous about having no High-Rise in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown:)
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Sat May 16, 2009 1:04 pm

cgcsb wrote:I'm not sure if construction has started or not. I believe the reason for it is that the runway is being obscured from the current control tower because of T2 so the new one must be 80 metres high. That's one building that the council can't insist has a few metres lopped off it.


There are some amazing Control Towers around the world. Alot of Airports use them as Signature buildings. A great examples would be Newcastle Airport and Edinburgh Airport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Airport

And a quirky older example....Budapest:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Ferihegy_International_Airport

Maybe, ATC towers are the makings of a separate thread??
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby Cathal Dunne » Mon May 25, 2009 8:32 pm

It's been a little over two weeks since the last photos of Monte Vetro were uploaded, it must look a little more filled out at this stage.
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Re: Alto Vetro, grand canal docks, dublin

Postby thebig C » Mon May 25, 2009 9:07 pm

Cathal Dunne wrote:It's been a little over two weeks since the last photos of Monte Vetro were uploaded, it must look a little more filled out at this stage.


Yeah, I was thinking the same. I used to work near there until last Sept......I would have been able to watch this rising from my office window:)

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