what's going up in Cobh

Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:57 pm

Istigh wrote:My understanding is the old town hall has been in use temporarily since the end of the summer last year by the youth services from top of the hill, until there plateau premises is renovated. I could ofcourse be wrong.
I agree entirely that the area has huge potential, we shall await further developments and comment accordingly.


I saw that mentioned in council meet minutes on cobh.ie but have not seen any life there... very quiet youths perhaps. Think I they, cove sailing club and many others made submissions to rent , was some mention that library would go there but in end it went up for auction.
pier next to it in limbo, don't think it Cobh TC property but port of Cork, however both the wooden piles which are condemned and the fixed wall/pier behind it (under line of green fence) need work. I believe sale is buildling and part of pier to green fence but anyone buying would have to consider some longterm expensive work to stone wall/pier, not too mind the wooden piles.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Istigh » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:39 am

samuel j wrote:I saw that mentioned in council meet minutes on cobh.ie but have not seen any life there... very quiet youths perhaps. Think I they, cove sailing club and many others made submissions to rent , was some mention that library would go there but in end it went up for auction.
pier next to it in limbo, don't think it Cobh TC property but port of Cork, however both the wooden piles which are condemned and the fixed wall/pier behind it (under line of green fence) need work. I believe sale is buildling and part of pier to green fence but anyone buying would have to consider some longterm expensive work to stone wall/pier, not too mind the wooden piles.


Yeah i had a suspicion the quay is the property of the Harbour, obviously they have no interest in it. It has been deralict aslong as i can remember and The port of cork is afterall a business, the only way to get them to do anything about it or the pier head is for them to some how believe they have something to gain from it, Clearly Cobhites feel there is alot to gain from a shorefront which is not in a shoddy run down condition as it is now in most areas. You would be pushed to find a safe overnight bert to entice tourists.
Perhaps we can suggest a developer revamping the quay and the pier head with pontoons and access and run gondola between both;)
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby THE_Chris » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:44 am

Theyd want to put 200 apartments there though, and in Cobh they'd probobly get permission :(
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:51 am

[quote="Istigh"]Yeah i had a suspicion the quay is the property of the Harbour, obviously they have no interest in it. It has been deralict aslong as i can remember and The port of cork is afterall a business, the only way to get them to do anything about it or the pier head is for them to some how believe they have something to gain from it, Clearly Cobhites feel there is alot to gain from a shorefront which is not in a shoddy run down condition as it is now in most areas. You would be pushed to find a safe overnight bert to entice tourists.
Perhaps we can suggest a developer revamping the quay and the pier head with pontoons and access and run gondola between both]
The Fishermen came up with plans a few years ago to re-do the pierhead or kennedy pier.making it more a small harbour with access from west side only. remove the middle leg and make an L s such with even more car park space in the Centra/east side. Would have made a safer berth as only getting really nasty with swell when strong SE running with long fetch all the way from Aghada. Think it died a death with Dept. of th Marine but cannot confirm this. It had a few floating pontoons on inside legs for visitors.
At moment 99% of visiting yachts come up for a look at the spendid Cobh, go as far as Whitepoint and bugger off back to Crosser or East Ferry if space but he chocka in summer (has plans to extend but reckon berths so scare it will fill overnight...reckon is too soft..know it will as big waiting list as it is).
An awful pity as know loads of boats/non nationals who would love to call in overnight...and spend money...... go to Cork for a day evne on train...changeover crew via Airport,bus and train...
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:02 am

THE_Chris wrote:Theyd want to put 200 apartments there though, and in Cobh they'd probobly get permission :(


True.... you saw the crap aparts just along the quay`backing onto harbour row....maybe okay inside by terrible from the sea.....in keeping with nothing to be frank.


problem with making the actual pier (condemned wooden section at moment) is that is does not provide any shelter to boat to tie up. Wash alone from traffic makes berthing a fender nightmare and if anything blowing from SE with ebb tide... no thank you unless a breakwater of some sort if fitted and evne the floating type costly. Can see why POC have not done anything with it as needs a lot in invest to make it really usable.

I feel sheet pile/infill to make more parking would be best use, combined with the actual marina proposal which does have an outer heavy pontoon/floating breakwater arrangement.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Istigh » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:17 am

samuel j wrote:The Fishermen came up with plans a few years ago to re-do the pierhead or kennedy pier.making it more a small harbour with access from west side only. remove the middle leg and make an L s such with even more car park space in the Centra/east side. Would have made a safer berth as only getting really nasty with swell when strong SE running with long fetch all the way from Aghada. Think it died a death with Dept. of th Marine but cannot confirm this. It had a few floating pontoons on inside legs for visitors.
At moment 99% of visiting yachts come up for a look at the spendid Cobh, go as far as Whitepoint and bugger off back to Crosser or East Ferry if space but he chocka in summer (has plans to extend but reckon berths so scare it will fill overnight...reckon is too soft..know it will as big waiting list as it is).
An awful pity as know loads of boats/non nationals who would love to call in overnight...and spend money...... go to Cork for a day evne on train...changeover crew via Airport,bus and train...



I remember that plan, i dont think it came from the fishermen, my understanding at the time was that its part of the whole sewage pumping station plan. The L shape you mention i believe was to encompass a larger parking area as you mention at the centra end, and i believe under this parking area is where the pumping station is meant to be positioned for the sewage link up to the treatment plant in Little Island. So i dont think the plan is gone as such, perhaps to be submitted for planning prior to start up of the project.
I seem to remember reading something last year about funding for the passage, monkstown, crosshaven and cobh link to the treatment plant being granted.
Have always liked the idea of the pontoons in the summer as outside the clipper, myself felt infront of the promenade would be good, then come up the steps (if you could slow down the DOD ferrys)
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Istigh » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:20 am

samuel j wrote:True.... you saw the crap aparts just along the quay`backing onto harbour row....maybe okay inside by terrible from the sea.....in keeping with nothing to be frank.


problem with making the actual pier (condemned wooden section at moment) is that is does not provide any shelter to boat to tie up. Wash alone from traffic makes berthing a fender nightmare and if anything blowing from SE with ebb tide... no thank you unless a breakwater of some sort if fitted and evne the floating type costly. Can see why POC have not done anything with it as needs a lot in invest to make it really usable.

I feel sheet pile/infill to make more parking would be best use, combined with the actual marina proposal which does have an outer heavy pontoon/floating breakwater arrangement.


There are some quite nice plans for that area, encompassing parking and a park going out as far as you mention to the edge of the quay and then tapering all the way down to the hump back bridge at the entrace to the old baths. Perhaps you should stick your head into yee olde town hall and have a glimpse at them.
No doubt there is many a plan in there gathering dust.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:39 am

Istigh wrote:I remember that plan, i dont think it came from the fishermen, my understanding at the time was that its part of the whole sewage pumping station plan. The L shape you mention i believe was to encompass a larger parking area as you mention at the centra end, and i believe under this parking area is where the pumping station is meant to be positioned for the sewage link up to the treatment plant in Little Island. So i dont think the plan is gone as such, perhaps to be submitted for planning prior to start up of the project.
I seem to remember reading something last year about funding for the passage, monkstown, crosshaven and cobh link to the treatment plant being granted.
Have always liked the idea of the pontoons in the summer as outside the clipper, myself felt infront of the promenade would be good, then come up the steps (if you could slow down the DOD ferrys)


It was indeed all part of the greater sweage plan as did see plan again 4-5 yrs ago making pumping stations etc
undergound in a revised pier/bigger centra cark park. Maybe larger L plan was part of this but can recall fishermen were in favour of it or were part of some consultation on it.
At same time can recall plans for sub treatment plant in old gasworks/congo berth by castleview but this not on as pebble beach apartments/housing in progress there with showhouses opening soon.
so not sure what ultimate plan was/is to get up to the Carrigrennan/little island plant.

Biggest snag for any pontoon and you can see this at much improved and welcome berth by the Quays pub is traffic, commercial and pleasure and the good old weather itself. The commercial we have to accept and this will not change (Ringaskiddy may well be the new port of cork but traffic perhaps even more will still pass Cobh).
But when it comes down to it, its the long distance a sea can building from the East/Aghada etc. right up to Cobh with any winds from East or South East. In the UK many areas with similar fetch for sea building use
floating pontoons, each 14 or 20 tonne each. IN fine weather inside and outside on the fingers can be used with many day visitors on outside but overnighters safety on inside out of boat wash and the local elements

Cobh Marina have got this right with a decent outer breakwater.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:16 am

Does anyone know what is the final plan (if there is one) on Cobh Sewage treatment. As mentioned by Istigh and myself there were many plans/rumours being put about a few years a go but this was before the carrigrennan/little plant opened. any know if we are somehow going to link up there and if yes when and how... what route.... underwater pipeline say from marino point to carrigrennan ,,?

anyone know anything...
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:35 pm

So the urban sprawl is by no means finished.....
From Dept. of Envirn website

"Minister Roche clears way for Cork County Council to invite tenders for sewerage scheme to service new housing in Cobh


Mr Dick Roche, TD, Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, announced today (4th December 2006), that he had approved Cork County Council's Contract Documents for the North Cobh Sewers Scheme. The scheme is being funded under the Serviced Land Initiative measure of his Department's Water Services Investment Programme 2005-2007. The estimated cost is €4.9 million.


The objective of the Serviced Land Initiative is to provide serviced residential land to improve the local housing supply. "The North Cobh scheme will provide new foul and storm sewerage systems to serve zoned development lands in the Ringmeen, Rushbrook and Ballynoe areas to the north of Cobh," the Minister said. "This will open up 227 acres for housing development and service almost 2,800 new houses in the long term". He said that the scheme will make a very significant contribution to the stock of sites available for new residential development in Cobh for many years to come.


"My approval of the Contract Documents allows Cork County Council to invite tenders for the approved works and advance the scheme to construction at the earliest possible date," the Minister concluded.


ENDS
"
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby THE_Chris » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:27 pm

2,800 MORE homes in estates????

Fuck that, Im leaving Cobh.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:40 pm

THE_Chris wrote:2,800 MORE homes in estates????

Fuck that, Im leaving Cobh.


can recall seeing in some study (think in relation to Cork-Cobh train) that it was expected Cobh population
would rise by 23% by 2020.....
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Eirl » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:27 pm

I came here to seek information on the statement by Mr. Roche . However I am rather taken aback at the language ,seemingly accepted ,in the forum. Perhaps it is an isolated incident ,will be deleted and the discussion continue in a more adult manner.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Praxiteles » Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:45 pm

Eirl wrote:I came here to seek information on the statement by Mr. Roche . However I am rather taken aback at the language ,seemingly accepted ,in the forum. Perhaps it is an isolated incident ,will be deleted and the discussion continue in a more adult manner.


Eirl!

You are not by any chance a nun? Have you not noticed the level of "acceptable" language on RTE?

The Chris is a valued contributor and entitled to let the hair down now and again.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:58 pm

Eirl wrote:I came here to seek information on the statement by Mr. Roche . However I am rather taken aback at the language ,seemingly accepted ,in the forum. Perhaps it is an isolated incident ,will be deleted and the discussion continue in a more adult manner.


More than acceptable to me as an honest reaction to news that Mr. Roche sees it fit that another 2800 homes
will be built in Cobh.
Many posts in past have highlighted the various sprawls we have on the island so far, some good, some bad
but with them little sight of the associated infrastructure requirements to cope with extra population.
One hopes this will get better but must say I too was shocked to general plans for another 2800 houses...

This should a forum for open and frank, discussion and reaction to whats going on around us and I do hope you might help this discussion with posts of your own on snippets you glean from your daily life.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:28 pm

Reading the prelim 2006 census: http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/2006PreliminaryReport.pdf

It would appear Cobh has in 2006 :
Cobh Urban pop of : 6,517 down 3.7% on the 2002 census
Cobh Rural pop of : 6,370 up 38.10 % on the 2002 census

OVERALL 12,887 up 34.40% on 2002

With another possible 2800 houses to come.... Can recall a railway report by Faber Maunsell from Oct 2004 mentioning Cobhs population would increase by 23% to 2020.....

Time for a re-think ......as i hope the Rail/roads/services will be able to cope...
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby THE_Chris » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:59 am

Eirl wrote:I came here to seek information on the statement by Mr. Roche . However I am rather taken aback at the language ,seemingly accepted ,in the forum. Perhaps it is an isolated incident ,will be deleted and the discussion continue in a more adult manner.

Welcome to the Internet :)
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:32 am

Readers might recall the cockup on the Marina development whereby it ended up in court when APBs refusal to accept that the objector group had lodged a valid appeal, was challenged in judicial review proceedings by Margaret Murphy, described as a member of the action group.

In his reserved judgment granting Ms Murphy's challenge, Mr Justice MacMenamin noted a "curious procedure" by Cobh Town Council in using "minuscule font size or typeface" only for the purpose of dating its letters. This unusual date procedure had not been explained, he said.

The dating procedure of the letters from the council to the group was "unwittingly" a "trap to the unwary", especially in view of the general similarity of the letters in layout and in substance, although there were some distinctions.

The letter of January 11th, 2005, sent by the group to the board was given within time and included the relevant information necessary for the board to proceed

And now from the Cobh Town Council website council meeting minutes
from 19/12/06 from the town manager
"She advised that between the date that the Draft Budget had been forwarded to the members and the date of the meeting, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government had announced the Local government Fund Allocations for 2007. The increase for Cobh Town Council was higher than anticipated at 7.82% which would result in additional income of €47,000. She stated that she was proposing that this extra income be used to pay for the legal costs incurred by the Council in relation to the recent High Court case concerning the Marina."

What a cockup and waste of money and still no marina.....the boat is sailing by us......

full minutes at : http://www.cobh.ie/preview.php?fileName=minutes&id=48

And council meeting on 11/12/06 first time Mr.Caciotti attended, wonder what he made of all of that....or what has he got himself into - the minutes : http://www.cobh.ie/preview.php?fileName=minutes&id=49
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Praxiteles » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:54 am

samuel j wrote:And now from the Cobh Town Council website council meeting minutes
from 19/12/06 from the town manager
"She advised that between the date that the Draft Budget had been forwarded to the members and the date of the meeting, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government had announced the Local government Fund Allocations for 2007. The increase for Cobh Town Council was higher than anticipated at 7.82% which would result in additional income of €]. She stated that [B]she was proposing that this extra income be used to pay for the legal costs incurred by the Council in relation to the recent High Court case concerning the Marina."]



Word has it that the Cobh Urban District Council paid out a similar sum for the legal representation at the Midelton Oral Hearing to save their bacon from the cock up they made in relation to the planning application for the "rerdering" of the Cathedral.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby THE_Chris » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:12 am

And this is why the islands roads are in bits.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Praxiteles » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:29 am

THE_Chris wrote:And this is why the islands roads are in bits.


Got that one spot on!!
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:57 am

Another little snippet from the CTC minutes
"She advised the members that as a result of the various measures in the Budget she was proposing that the increase in the Rateable Valuation Multiplier would be 4%. She stated that the proposed Rate of 67.11 was substantially lower than the rate of 71.30 adopted by Cork County Council"

And what do businesses get in return.. parking fines... they might as well close down the town to businesses as I cannot for the life of me see any incentive to have one there.. meanwhile the extra 47k they got from local govn goes to pay for legal costs for their cock ups...
We hear again and again the town is dying..with people shopping etc. outside more and more.... so what do they do up the rates and make it even harder for businesses there.....

Have they ever heard of don't bite off the hand that feeds you.....
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Praxiteles » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:55 am

But that is exactly the problem: the dog is not feeding Madam Chairman and the over-holidayed time servers in the council administration. They do not have to face re-election to office by the inhabitants of Cobh and so can continue to up the rates as much as they like.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:08 pm

Ridge Developements have just announced details of their Marinegate development at the top of East Hill
Following from their website http://www.ridge.ie

They also mention a forthcoming development of 167 Residential units and creche at Ballyleary,Cobh

Meanwhile details on the Old Gas Works site/Congo berth development to be called pebble beach should be available soon on selling agent site : http://www.cdacork.com/index.cfm?action=pages.listnewdevelopments
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:40 pm

Praxiteles wrote:But that is exactly the problem: the dog is not feeding Madam Chairman and the over-holidayed time servers in the council administration. They do not have to face re-election to office by the inhabitants of Cobh and so can continue to up the rates as much as they like.


Very true, in fact have heard that two councillors Noirin Doyle and John Mulvihill are very annoyed about the legal fees that swallow up badly needed funding for 2007.
Both openly very dissapointed....so hope they give the admin a good talking to.... and not let the admin get away with penalising the towns people and businesses for the cockup by rate increases and over zealous car parking fine etc.
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