Cork Harbour

Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:18 am

It is even more ridiculous than I had imagined. The Guards must think that their running a Mississippi show-boat over there!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Gianlorenzo » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:48 am

Cobh Town Centre is in an awful state. The buildings in the square around the Lusitania monument have now acquired boards covering the ground floor window and doors on which the local Youth Centre kids have painted large butterflies and flowers as well as advertisements for themselves.
As I have mentioned previously on another thread, Cobh town centre is a virtual wilderness. There are a number of problems here, one being Cobh people's reluctance to support any new business; the introduction of parking charges accompanied by a warden who would put the Gestapo to shame - this alone has seen most of the car owning residends abandoning the town: and the ridiculous value put on property in the town centre - ridiculous in that most of it is in desperate need or complete renovation. The local merchants have tried to reason with the Council on the parking problem, but to no avail.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby corcaighboy » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:59 am

Goldiefish - Great photo and whilst I realise that opinions on the building's architectural merit vary, I for one concur that it is not appropriate. I feel that it jars completely with the red brick of the railway station.

Gianlorenzo - You hit the nail on the head. Cobh, despite having one of Ireland's most interesting architectural and visual landscapes, has a tardy, beat-up look to the place. When one contrasts it with Kinsale and what they have done with relatively little in comparison, it is plain to see Cobh has missed the boat. Although we can blame the planners, the UDC, and other state bodies, I for one feel that the people of Cobh have to bear the blame since they have simply let their town slide into the mess it is today. Litter seems to be a perennial problem, and the place has always had a rough edge. Given that the town has so many natural physical advantages, it is doubly depressing. Youghal suffers from similar problems and in my view, the two towns have given up the ghost folloiwng their glory years when they were fully fledged garrison towns. Incidentally, the Cobh Cruiser Terminal (in front of the railway station/Queenstown Experience...and close to the river boat garda station!) disgorge hundreds of weatlhy passengers whenever a ship docks....who are promptly whisked off to either Kinsale, Blarney, or Killarney! Says it all really.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:20 am

[quote="Gianlorenzo"]Cobh Town Centre is in an awful state. The buildings in the square around the Lusitania monument have now acquired boards covering the ground floor window and doors on which the local Youth Centre kids have painted large butterflies and flowers as well as advertisements for themselves.
As I have mentioned previously on another thread, Cobh town centre is a virtual wilderness. There are a number of problems here, one being Cobh people's reluctance to support any new business]

Anohter example of stupidity of the Cobh Urban District Council!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Spinal Tap » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:53 am

Cobh has massive potential and should be as popular as Kinsale or Clonakilty with its superb setting and historical / Architectural heritage.Its a fantastic town with great transport links and massive tourist potential.The disasterous manage of tgheb waterfront Titanic bar and its closure is a shame as it is in a great location.The marina development would be a boost to the East Beach area of the town also.Cobh has been going through a period of decline with the literal collapse of the old dirty harbour based industries and the Spike Island prison closure ( another tourist development opportunity ).Unfortunatly if you don't drink alcohol there is'nt a lot to do in Cobh in the evenings but that is even changing as pubs in Cobh as elsewhere are adjusting to the newer drinking culture in Ireland.Lots of opportunities forn the council to update shopfronts and derelect sites in Cobh.Remember 25/30 years ago Kinsale was in a similar position to Cobh with zero investment and derilection and has been resting on its laurels a bit too much as its main street is'nt exactly well maintained shopfront wise.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:21 am

corcaighboy wrote:Goldiefish - Great photo and whilst I realise that opinions on the building's architectural merit vary, I for one concur that it is not appropriate. I feel that it jars completely with the red brick of the railway station.

Gianlorenzo - You hit the nail on the head. Cobh, despite having one of Ireland's most interesting architectural and visual landscapes, has a tardy, beat-up look to the place. When one contrasts it with Kinsale and what they have done with relatively little in comparison, it is plain to see Cobh has missed the boat. Although we can blame the planners, the UDC, and other state bodies, I for one feel that the people of Cobh have to bear the blame since they have simply let their town slide into the mess it is today. Litter seems to be a perennial problem, and the place has always had a rough edge. Given that the town has so many natural physical advantages, it is doubly depressing. Youghal suffers from similar problems and in my view, the two towns have given up the ghost folloiwng their glory years when they were fully fledged garrison towns. Incidentally, the Cobh Cruiser Terminal (in front of the railway station/Queenstown Experience...and close to the river boat garda station!) disgorge hundreds of weatlhy passengers whenever a ship docks....who are promptly whisked off to either Kinsale, Blarney, or Killarney! Says it all really.


I have no doubt the building works perfectly for the Garda and having been in (thankfulyl just getting passport updated) it is functional, even a pleasant experience. The building in itself is interesting in shape but soemthing than may look well in say the Little Island Business parks in the foreshore there, no offence to Little Island but its intertesting shape might blend in nicely with the many box developments there.
My gripe is that with the Railway Station, Heritage Centre red brick and the numerous Victorian houses behind it, above it etc. , is is totally out of place.

Cobh itself, have lived here all my life and moved my business down here form Cork City after 10 years in traffic each morning. I have to agree that all blame cannot go to the planners and indeed the people of Cobh have to share much of the blame. Post its Garrison town days and post Liner days as the exit point for much of Ireland, its economy did suffer and by say 80s it most certainly was not a wealthy town and buildings were left go
into disrepair and at times title of property has been a nightmare where many older buildings beneficial owners had passed through non resident inheritances etc. Not all but it didn't help and to this day, many a building one finds can still have unclear title etc.

However now in 2006, the population has increased dramatically with numerous new housing developments on the Island and at last there are signs of a greater wealth or spending power if I can call it that and I genuinely feel that new blood so to speak may in time bring the town back to some better level of repair and prosperity.

It is encumbent on our town elders /planners faciltate this and as their name suggest PLAN and not bleed any
would be small business with ridculous planning conditions that would not appear to apply to others.... A Level playing field when it come to planning.

Parking..... Don't start me.... Where we are not one more space has become available due to the Traffic Warden as there was and still are many free. Instead we disruption to our business as we have to move our cars, like musical chairs when he is spotted...madness and as I say hasn't done anything to create more spaces j,ust annoyance and hassle to clients seeing us and uping the council coffers on parking fines..when our spies miss him coming along the road.

Visiting cruise vessels and passys whisked away, you are right but much of that has to do with the marketing and business acumen of tour operators based outside of the town and we cannot knock them for that.
As we see more vessels coming in on repeat visits, this does seem to be changing, not hugely but more and more are spending their days in the town. Of course its the off-duty crews that give most benefit to the town
as once the punters are bused away, the crews get their time off and stay around.

Its open to debate as to whether US warships should be coming here, but when they do 80% of the crews
stay in Cobh.... many take train to Cork but by eve most back in da pubs of Cobh... spending and the most well behaved gangs we ever see.

anyway just to give you some local thoughts...
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:23 pm

Just right on time for the fun. An artilce from today's irish Independent.

I hope young Mr. Hally took a few of the lay-abouts from Cobh Urban District Council off in his chain-gang destinned fr Spike Island:

Trail unlocks history chest of Spike Island convicts

EOIN Hally and Shane Casey, above, get dressed up as members of a convict chain gang at Cobh Harbour to promote the upcoming conference: Spike Island - Hidden History an Opportunity in Tourism. The conference takes place in the Commodore Hotel in Cobh, Co Cork, on October 13.

Guest speakers include Rich Weideman (Ranger at Alcatraz). For further information contact Michael Martin on 087 276 7218.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:18 pm

Can remember the day the Current Prison closed and the hullabaloo on TV Radio. What amazed me at the time was I could see a Test Rig off Spike taking core samples or such like at the same time.... Looked to me as if plans for Super Prison with Bridge from mainland were on the cards all the time...and the closing etc. and moving of personnel was all for some other skullduggery.
As I say news was full of doom and gloom at the time about Spike Closing and exactly same time
surveying appeared to be going on, within the rough area of where a bridge could be put...
Was out on Spike as a kid and can recall us having a great time sneaking around old turrets, tunnels, magazines so plan would have merit but wonder if the OPW or Dept. of Justice have decided this one ages ago...
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby corcaighboy » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:37 pm

samuel j - I always found it odd that they wanted to shut Spike. I realise they had issues with industrial relations & staffing and perhaps that was the reason. Nevertheless, given that the state already owns the land and that the site would have no issues with NIMBY and other planning objections that would almost certainly arise with a greenfield site, it never really made sense to shut it down fully. I imagine that it will be renovated and made into some sort of high security prison. No sharks to dissuade potential escapees, but plenty of good old harbour muck to slow them down ;)

Here are some photos I took back in August of Spike.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:56 pm

Most of the Sharks in Cork live Ashore.....

Tourism Interests in/around cobh are trying their best to get it converted to some form an 'Alcatraz' and have kids doing school projects on it etc., fundraising but just fear it is a waste of the precious time and resources as decision as to its usage were set in stone or mudbanks ages ago.. Great Photos.....
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby corcaighboy » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:23 pm

Oddly enough, I believe it would be more of a tourist attaction if it were still a prison. Much more interest if they actually have dodgy characters there than not. Realistically, I don't think it could be used for a viable tourism related function, especially given its limited access. Either way, expect no announcement either way until after the election.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:06 am

And here is the life story of one of those "characters" associated with Oilean Pic -Spike Island:

http://www.catholic-forum.com/SAINTS/stc7z001.htm
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:20 am

Lovely pictures of Spike.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:26 pm

Has anyone had an opportunity to see the new labour exchange building which has just been completed in Cobh?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:53 pm

Praxiteles wrote:Has anyone had an opportunity to see the new labour exchange building which has just been completed in Cobh?

Haven't been on for a while to forum.
Will try to get photo over weekend of new social welfare office....have passed it by car...dear god...another Cobh TC and OPW gem.....
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New Social Welfare Office Cobh

Postby samuel j » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:19 am

Just some quick shots I got when passing over ther weekend showing new section towards Harbour Row/harbour hill and front of old customs buildinhs which beautifully restores, shame the TV had to be added to the back/
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:25 pm

Has anybody lost a television set in Cobh?

Clearly, Cobh Urban District Council is quite intent on closing down the town as far a making it a tourist attraction is concerned. What with the guards in a Missihippin show boat and the unemployed asked to sign on in a discarded television case!!

Perhaps the time has come to close down the shambles that is Cobh Urban District Council before they close down the town.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:11 pm

Will try to get more shots as to the right of it and far right of it looking back up Harbour Hill are 1830s buildings
when you see in the flesh so to speak, it even looks mroe ridiculous and out fo place...
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby A-ha » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:01 am

I haven't been following this thread a whole lot, but when I saw that photo.... I have never seen a more disgusting building in my life. No joke..... it's right manky!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Pug » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:01 am

A-ha wrote:I haven't been following this thread a whole lot, but when I saw that photo.... I have never seen a more disgusting building in my life. No joke..... it's right manky!


maybe it was designed to discourage people from going in to it to sign on
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby THE_Chris » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:46 pm

Are they having a fucking laugh? Who designs this crap? My god, make a building fit in, at least.
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Monkstown Marina planning app in

Postby samuel j » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:18 pm

See that :

Monkstown Bay Marina Co. Ltd
Correspondence Address: C/O DJ Fitzgibbon & Co. Ltd
No.2, Empress Place
Summerhill North
Cork
Development Description: Construction of 82 no. berth marina with access deck at road level supported by piles

Will be interesting to see if they get on any better than Ascon-Cobh Marina developments. Court hearing for this apparently on planning procedure is on Oct 26th.......
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:21 pm

THE_Chris wrote:Are they having a fucking laugh? Who designs this crap? My god, make a building fit in, at least.

And the hoops they make most mortals jump through when planning..... not a level playing field by any stretch of the imagination....
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby THE_Chris » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:02 pm

Yeah imagine if Joe Public wanted to build that exact building in that exact place. Like hell he'd get permission for it.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:34 am

This morning's IT:

Refusal of development objection overturned




The High Court has overturned An Bord Pleanála's refusal to accept that a local group of objectors had lodged a valid appeal against a proposed development of 150 apartments, a marina and car park in Cobh, Co Cork.

Mr Justice John MacMenamim said the board's objection to accepting the appeal as valid was "essentially technical".

The board had said the appeal dated January 19th, 2005, and lodged on behalf of the Holy Ground and Environs Action Group, was invalid because it had not been accompanied, as required by the Planning and Development Act 2000, by "an appropriate acknowledgment".


The board argued the only appropriate acknowledgment was a letter to the group from Cobh Town Council dated November 30th, 2004, the first of three letters to the group from the council.

The appeal was in fact accompanied by the third letter from the council to the group, dated January 11th 2005, in which the council, which had granted permission for the proposed development on December 16th 2004, acknowledged receipt of the group's communications relating to the application for planning permission.

Cobh Town Council's second letter was sent on December 17th, 2004.

The planning board's refusal of January 26th, 2005, to accept that the group had lodged a valid appeal, was challenged in judicial review proceedings by Margaret Murphy, described as a member of the action group.

In his reserved judgment granting Ms Murphy's challenge, Mr Justice MacMenamin noted a "curious procedure" by Cobh Town Council in using "minuscule font size or typeface" only for the purpose of dating its letters. This unusual date procedure had not been explained, he said.

The dating procedure of the letters from the council to the group was "unwittingly" a "trap to the unwary", especially in view of the general similarity of the letters in layout and in substance, although there were some distinctions.

The letter of January 11th, 2005, sent by the group to the board was given within time and included the relevant information necessary for the board to proceed.

There was no prejudice to the board, he held.

Earlier, Mr Justice MacMenamin said the proposed development at Connolly Street, Cobh, was in the area well known as "the Holy Ground".

It was an extensive development, consisting of a marina, 150 apartments in blocks of two and three storeys, a six-storey apartment building, commercial units and a car park.

He said the members of the action group objected to the development on grounds of its impact on the local environment, a risk of landslides, ecological aspects and alleged destruction of views of Cobh Harbour from a number of different vantage points.

Ms Murphy lived with her parents in close proximity to the location of the intended development.

© The Irish Times
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