Cork Harbour

Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:52 am

THE_Chris wrote:Dammit I always miss the good stuff :( Been waiting 23 years for that shit heap to be demolised, and Im in Galway when they knock it :(


Chris!

Here is something for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOmlpNPIf8A
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:35 am

Chuck E R Law wrote:Powerful stuff, Mr. Prax! Dere a right crowd of Vainquers in de Council! Imagine tinking that it was dere job to provide water for de people. What will dey tink of next! Shoor de place is destroyed entirely. But at least we have kept our faith! Shoor you'll have a point. Wattle ye have. A pint of spleen? Givus two pints of spleen.


Imagine anybody naive enough at this stage to buy the sham populist democracy bit that Cobh Urban Council would have the altruism to think PUBLIC or the ability to act in the interest of the PEOPLE when the same body gave us a world class example of crypto-marxist distain for the will of Das Volk by not even bothering to look at let alone read 95 of 214 objections to the proposed wrecking of the interior of Cobh Cathedral. Are we dealing with someone from the party here? Certainly, the attitudes are veresimilitudenous!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby goldiefish » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:44 pm

Praxiteles wrote:Chris!

Here is something for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOmlpNPIf8A



I'm very proud of that clip. Seems the Secondary school in cobh as it as one of their most popular youtube movies at the moment.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby goldiefish » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:51 pm

kite wrote:So much for ridge protection zones.:(


Where else would one put a water tower? Its next to the old one. Its there since the mid 80s. This is the first complaint I have heard. The angle of that photo would be unusual for the average tourist as the naval base does not form part of the usual tourist route. Who took the photo? Would sir prefer if the population took their water in buckets from the river instead?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:54 pm

goldiefish wrote:Where else would one put a water tower? Its next to the old one. Its there since the mid 80s. This is the first complaint I have heard. The angle of that photo would be unusual for the average tourist as the naval base does not form part of the usual tourist route. Who took the photo? Would sir prefer if the population took their water in buckets from the river instead?



There is no shortage of high ground in Cobh. The tower could quite easily have been located on a less prominent part of the ridge and kept out of sight. That the old water tower was on the same site only underlines the degree of laziness and mental torpitude current in Cobh Town Council. Nobody is asking anyone to draw water in buckets. All we are saying is that ungly facilities such as the Cobh flying-saucer water tower should be kept out of site and certainly nowhere near a buuilding of the significance of St. Colman's Cathedral. If Haulbowline is to be developed as a tourist facility, what are the tourists going to say about ET's parking lot across the harbour?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby goldiefish » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:16 am

People thought the eifil(sp) tower was an eyesore too
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:25 am

And some still do. The same gantry does not have unreserved aesthetical encomia heaped on it. Believe you me: the Cobh Water Tower is not anywhere even in that league. It is simply ugly, produced by laziness, indifference, and ignorance, and should simply be removed.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby goldiefish » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:11 pm

There is a similar one in Castletroy, Limerick, Its floodlit and is quite pleasing on the eye.

One of the reasons a water tower remains on the site in Cobh is because it is an aid to navigation. It appears on the Nautical charts of the harbour and is often used by pilots(ships ones) as a landmark to steer to when entering the outer harbour. Combining landmarks such as this can also assist in the important task of compass swinging, but hey it doesnt look nice so lets tear it down.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:32 pm

And tell me, how did they manage in the harbour for landmarks before ET (aka the lazy Cobh UDC) landed the saucer?

You are not telling me that Cobh UDC was even lazier than I thought and merely copied a schematic plan for general use up and down the country without any reference to environment?

And, is it to the watertower that you stand to attention as you enter and leave the harbour?

Re: Castletroy: I am afraid I cannot account for the taste of the Co. Limerick!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby goldiefish » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:06 am

You know your sarcasm does nothing to further the discussion.

Have you even watched ET? His ship looked nothing like the water tower.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:17 am

Sorry, I did not intend any sarcasm - but it is a verifable fact that Cobh UDC is in a state of hallucinogenic accitie.

But, to return to the point, do you stand to attention to the watertower or not as you enter and leave the harbour?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby goldiefish » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:08 am

no.why would I?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:02 pm

Goldiefish!

Thank you. Thta is all I wanted to know. Clearly, the watertower is of no significance as far Cork harbour is concerned.

As a matter of interest, if I may ask, does anyone stand to attention anymore entering and leaving the harbour and if so, why? Perhaps our non Cobh audience would like to hear of a small bit of local custom.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:03 pm

Goldiefish!

Thank you. That is all I wanted to know. Clearly, the watertower is of no significance as far Cork harbour is concerned.

As a matter of interest, if I may ask, does anyone stand to attention anymore entering and leaving the harbour and if so, why? Perhaps our non Cobh audience would like to hear of a small bit of local custom.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby goldiefish » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:03 am

The Irish Navy always do, but that to salute the Flag on their water tower (painted yellow and black). Visiting warships also do too. Its established naval tradition, the purpose being to demonstrate that no crew were operating the ships guns.

As for its significance, did you miss the bit where I explained about it being a vital aid to navigation?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:21 am

Actually, I did not miss the reference to the watertower's being "vital" to navigation. I decided to let it sit when it struck me that it cannot be too visible, and hence too "vital", when the thick fog comes down over the harbour and the mournful lowing of the boon starts up - and this happens more than once during the winter in Cobh. And then, you have the days of slashing rain and you are unlikely to see much of the watertower on those days either as it is usually difficult enough to make out your own hand. So, in fine summer weather, or clear winter weather, the watertower will be visible and could act as a welcome navigation aid. But, the last time I was out in the harbour, i seem to remember that the channells were fairly well marked off by a series of buoys which must surely relativise the watertower's strategic navagational significance. On the other hand, if safe steerage in and out of the Virgilian statio bene fida et carinis is dependent on an ugly lump of concrete, should anyone run the gauntlet of Cork harbour which cannot be very bene fida or carinis?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby goldiefish » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:45 am

Land lubbers...they know nothing.
I'll not bother explaining it again as your entrenched opinions come with selective reading skills.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby corcaighboy » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:48 am

Speaking of navigational aids in the harbour, I think people would find this one of interest. It is the Spit Bank lighthouse. Apparently, during the Queen's visit to Cobh (called Queenstown in her honor), navigation was made extremely difficult given the fog. Following a successful landing, she granted the captain his wish for a navigational aid on the spit bank! Furthermore, it was designed by a blind man and built in 1853.
It is maintained by the Port of Cork and not by Irish Lights.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:15 am

A case of the blind leading the blind? Nice photograph of the Cathedral while the restoration work was going on in the spire.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:30 am

goldiefish wrote:Land lubbers...they know nothing.
I'll not bother explaining it again as your entrenched opinions come with selective reading skills.


Land lubbers.... fully agree with you.
For anyone interested... any landmark is of use to navigation and even with marked buoys on a channel, GPS, Chartplotters, it is still your best visual check using transits on where you are within a channel. Wind, tide all cause drift of any vessels, aiming for something or using a compass heading is not sufficent. you have to cross check for wind/tide drift and any feature, helps this.

Its not just weekend yotties, boaties that do this but Harbour Pilots everyday bringnig vessels in/out.

As I say GPS/chartplotters make it so much easier... but they can fail and nothing like a visual check

Many features are used, the Cathedral of course, the Aghada ESb towers, Water towers in Cobh
and above Crosshaven....

Now if you want to see a real eyesore....just look from Cobh and you see the skyline above pfizers totally buggered with the development going on there... did anyone ever look at the levels at all when giving planning....... well at least Cobh Town Council cannot be blamed for that one..
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:38 pm

While on things maritime, has any heard/seen rumoured application for an 80 berth marina at Rafeen Creek near Monkstown. Or indeed heard anything on latest with Ascons Marina plan for Cobh... believe it still stuck in High Court but not sure if true
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby jungle » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:00 pm

samuel j wrote:While on things maritime, has any heard/seen rumoured application for an 80 berth marina at Rafeen Creek near Monkstown.


I understood that area was part of PoC's plan for expansion of the harbour's container facilities.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:40 pm

jungle wrote:I understood that area was part of PoC's plan for expansion of the harbour's container facilities.

Upriver or to the right of the POC plans, as far as I understand. I would think where many boats are now on swinging moorings. Just heard a rumour that an planning app has or is going in.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:51 pm

samuel j wrote:Land lubbers.... fully agree with you.
For anyone interested... any landmark is of use to navigation and even with marked buoys on a channel, GPS, Chartplotters, it is still your best visual check using transits on where you are within a channel. Wind, tide all cause drift of any vessels, aiming for something or using a compass heading is not sufficent. you have to cross check for wind/tide drift and any feature, helps this.

Its not just weekend yotties, boaties that do this but Harbour Pilots everyday bringnig vessels in/out.

As I say GPS/chartplotters make it so much easier... but they can fail and nothing like a visual check

Many features are used, the Cathedral of course, the Aghada ESb towers, Water towers in Cobh
and above Crosshaven....

Now if you want to see a real eyesore....just look from Cobh and you see the skyline above pfizers totally buggered with the development going on there... did anyone ever look at the levels at all when giving planning....... well at least Cobh Town Council cannot be blamed for that one..


That is exactly my point...these have to be SEEN to be of any use to navigation. You cannot SEE them in the FOG or indeed in heavy RAIN. So, when not SEEABLE/VISIBLE they canot be VITAL to navigation ...and since that is a fairly substantial part of the year as far as Cobh is concerned, one could well wonder if they are really of any use at all. As af as I can make out, that should be the same, roughly speaking, for both land lubber and sea hound alike. After all, if the fog in Cobh did not oblige Queen Victoria by staying away for the few hours she ever spent there when she landed (and Cork was raging in typhus at the same time so much so that she had to open UCC from a safe distance), what hope have we to expect that itwill look more kindlier on us. As far as I can see, the light house is a much more practical item for navigation in the fog or in the dark of winter. Vivat regina!

I am surprised that the mess you describe above pfizers is not the fault of Cobh Urban District Council....their accitie must now be a principal export from the town !
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:33 pm

I take your point that if fog or heavy rain then one cannot see landmarks for using transits etc. but in dense fog or zero vis. commercial traffic movements will be halted until such time as the Pilot and Port Operations
are both happy with vis. Does mean vessels remaining at anchor off Spike or outside Roches Point.
Constant checks are made of vis of all areas, approaches, lower harbour, lough mahon ...
I guarantee you any professional seafarer will much rather and trust his own eyes for visual checks. Most if not all now have Radar/GPS, pleasure craft too, but in the times of low vis as you describe, you would be surprised how very often towers etc. can still be made out....and when one does, joy that one can confirm/backup electronic nav aids.

But in zero vis. you are right but fortunately harbour pilots etc. agree with you, so ships stay put....

Cobh ....you're an awful man.... for the yast 5 years we have started exportin a lot of young professionals each morning to Cork City...the odd architect even..... the Importation back each evening does have its drawbacks though.... all these new housing estates.... admittedly though in the county planning juristication.
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