Developments in Cork

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby kite » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:10 pm

Celebrated and Controversial Architect Will Alsop to Speak in Cork
“Creating buildings and spaces that continue to give pleasure in the future is one of our responsibilities [as architects].” Will Alsop

Avant garde architect Will Alsop, whose distinctive and controversial buildings provoke opposing reactions from critics, his fellow architects and the general public, is sure to trigger vigorous debate when he speaks in Cork this autumn. The British architect will explore the process of architecture as an act of change in his lecture as part of the Creating a Cultural City Lecture Series in Millennium Hall, Cork on Tuesday 17 October 2006 at 7pm.

Presented by the Cork City Council Arts Office, the Creating a Cultural City Lecture Series seeks to encourage an investigation into the role of culture in cities and the creative capacity of urban spaces. Established in 2004, the series has already hosted an impressive array of speakers to date including Charles Landry, Constantin Chiriac, Franco Bianchini and Professor Sir Peter Hall and continued earlier this year with independent arts producer and co-founder of the London International Festival of Theatre (Lift), Lucy Neal. It is hoped that the lectures series will engage cultural practitioners; the wider cultural community; urban planners; business, civic and political leaders and the general public in debating the role and potential of creativity in our cities.

Will Alsop is one of the most prominent UK architects. His practice is an international operation guided by the principle that architecture is both a vehicle and symbol of social change and renewal. The philosophy extends from the design of individual buildings to embrace broader principles of urbanism and city development. Alsop follows a parallel path as an artist, feeling that it is a discipline inseparable from architecture. He was a tutor of sculpture at Central St. Martins College of Art & Design, London, for several years, has held many other academic posts, and actively promotes the artistic contribution to the built environment.

The lecture by Will Alsop is the first of two lectures in October presented by the Cork City Council Arts Office with support from the Arts Council of Ireland. Details of the second lecture will be announced in the coming weeks. Admission to the lectures is free.

Further information is available from The Arts Office, Cork City Council on 021 492 4298 or via email at arts@corkcity.ie.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby rebel_city » Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:41 pm

On a seperate note - a few posts back I mentioned the use of boardwalks on the quays in Cork - like in Dublin - would be good. Yesterday in Dublin I was walking up town from work and I took the boardwalk route (usually go a different way), it was an experience to say the least! I had to walk past a few groups of people who were eh... a bit intimidating! I was thinking this is majorly dodge! Then on the news this morning, and also on eveningecho.ie, there was a report that the Gardai are cracking down on anti-social behaviour and drug dealing on the Dublin boardwalks! Supposedly over the past few months they have gone down hill big time! Meant to be used to regenerate the city centre and for tourists but that hasn't gone to plan! Just thought I'd bring it up! :o
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby kite » Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:17 pm

rebel_city wrote:On a seperate note - a few posts back I mentioned the use of boardwalks on the quays in Cork - like in Dublin - would be good. Yesterday in Dublin I was walking up town from work and I took the boardwalk route (usually go a different way), it was an experience to say the least! I had to walk past a few groups of people who were eh... a bit intimidating! I was thinking this is majorly dodge! Then on the news this morning, and also on eveningecho.ie, there was a report that the Gardai are cracking down on anti-social behaviour and drug dealing on the Dublin boardwalks! Supposedly over the past few months they have gone down hill big time! Meant to be used to regenerate the city centre and for tourists but that hasn't gone to plan! Just thought I'd bring it up! :o


:o Had the "pleasure" of walking the boardwalk in Dublin last June in the company of a 6'6" member of the Gardai. It was not an experience i would care to repeat with or without his company.
Until the bleeding hearts brigade are sorted and these "ladies and gents are fed to the fish in the liffey, or locked up Irish cities will never have the luxury of being truly European.
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Re: Patrick Street

Postby daniel_7 » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:54 pm

kite wrote::o I agree with your comment "a defeat for proper planning"
Just how dull and boring do our city fathers want Patrick St. to be?


thats a disgrace! they seem to be really worried about the lack of short break tourism in the city alright ! They go and turn one of the most central prime units on the main shooping street in the city into a bank? Theres no justification for that, especially when there is numerous new developments lying vacent for this type of use and a need for good retail space in the city centre and they go and do that, cant get over that decision!But back to before the change of use, everyones always saying that theres not enough big premises for the big names in the city centre and this was a good example of a prime unit and was lying vacent for months and still not taking over, can anyone explain this? Everyone has there own opinion but I just cant come to an answer , theres plenty of perfect units around that are just simply not been taking over and i dont see this happening in other cities like dub, lim or galway!? take lapps quay,lavits quay, camden quay,gearges quay,hickeys on maylor st and evan mahon point? :confused:
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Re: Beamish and Crawford

Postby PVC King » Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:14 pm

Radioactiveman wrote:UPDATE
Obviously due to my vigorous campaigning on the matter :) , Beamish and Crawford have sprung into action. The railings are now being painted, the unsightly metal bars are being removed and the poured concrete is being clad to give it 'ye olde stone wall' look.
I'll put up an updated picture when I can get it, but I'm not sure such a finish is appropriate here. Wouldn't good quality brickwork or render have been more in keeping with this almost industrial location?


Well done it is good to see that your persistance has paid off and it was well directed those buildings are as good an example of their type in the Country.

BTW

It is surprising to see a bank take such a high cost pitch
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Re: Patrick Street

Postby kite » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:26 pm

daniel_7 wrote:thats a disgrace! they seem to be really worried about the lack of short break tourism in the city alright ! They go and turn one of the most central prime units on the main shooping street in the city into a bank? Theres no justification for that, especially when there is numerous new developments lying vacent for this type of use and a need for good retail space in the city centre and they go and do that, cant get over that decision!But back to before the change of use, everyones always saying that theres not enough big premises for the big names in the city centre and this was a good example of a prime unit and was lying vacent for months and still not taking over, can anyone explain this? Everyone has there own opinion but I just cant come to an answer , theres plenty of perfect units around that are just simply not been taking over and i dont see this happening in other cities like dub, lim or galway!? take lapps quay,lavits quay, camden quay,gearges quay,hickeys on maylor st and evan mahon point? :confused:


:confused: Just what is happening with Hickeys on Maylor St?
City Manager, Joe Gavin explaining the 23% increase in vacant space in the city centre mentioned that the considerable floor space in Hickeys was giving a skewed view of vacancies in the city yet nothing has been reported on this site in recent times.
Am I correct in recalling that Brideview Developments had an interest in the site?
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby THE_Chris » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:50 pm

Build shops, not more flats dammit.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby Radioactiveman » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:31 pm

daniel_7 wrote:thats a disgrace! they seem to be really worried about the lack of short break tourism in the city alright ! They go and turn one of the most central prime units on the main shooping street in the city into a bank? .......this was a good example of a prime unit and was lying vacent for months and still not taking over, can anyone explain this? Everyone has there own opinion but I just cant come to an answer , theres plenty of perfect units around that are just simply not been taking over and i dont see this happening in other cities like dub, lim or galway!? take lapps quay,lavits quay, camden quay,gearges quay,hickeys on maylor st and evan mahon point? :confused:


First of all, I don't agree with CCC that an extension to an already existing bank on St.Patrick Street is a proper planning decision. It is against the thrust of the City's development plan and reduces the City's ability to compete with out of town development.
The reason why this spot was vacant for so long was simple due to the time needed to put this application together and get it sorted. The vast majority of vacant spaces on St.Patrick Street are also vacant because they are components of much larger retail developments in the pipeline. For example, the units to the west of Burger King are parts of the fledgling Capitol Cinema Development and the units near Academy Street are in waiting for a positive decision by planners on OCP plans for the block.
Indeed, in my view, things are going to get worse in St. Patrick's Street - Grand Parade before they get better. You've got:
1. Dunnes Stores redevelopment (one entire city block, planning granted, work to begin before the end of the year)
2. Academy Street Development (Almost two more city blocks]Well done it is good to see that your persistance has paid off and it was well directed those buildings are as good an example of their type in the Country.

BTW

It is surprising to see a bank take such a high cost pitch[/QUOTE]
I may have over emphasised my role in this :)
-----------------------------------

I passed South Mall/Parnell place late last week. Work is underway at the Corbett Brother's site at 17, 18 Parnell place and Beasly St. With listed facades to the Parnell place side, the demolition work looked a bit brutal for my liking...part of one of the facades is now missing!
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby A-ha » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:54 pm

I was thinking the other day about the sale of Roches to Debenhams. I was wondering does anybody know will the supermarkets in Roches that are currently run by SuperValu be affected? Will they carry on as usual or are we to expect them to be taken over by another supermarket. I remember alot of talk a few years ago when Roches wanted to leave the food retailing sector. M&S took over some, SuperValu took over others, but word was that both Sainsburys and Superquinn were in the bid for them. What will happen to the existing stores and when can we expect Roches to close down in Cork?
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby malec » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:24 pm

I can't remember who asked for images of 21 lavitt's quay but here they are, nothing too spectacular.


Image Image Image Image Image


And also, now that they've starting knocking down these houses, does anyone know what will be built here? I remember seeing a hideous redbrick and blocky proposal for this site, hope that's not the final version

Image
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby phatman » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:57 pm

Radioactiveman wrote:I passed South Mall/Parnell place late last week. Work is underway at the Corbett Brother's site at 17, 18 Parnell place and Beasly St. With listed facades to the Parnell place side, the demolition work looked a bit brutal for my liking...part of one of the facades is now missing!


Real pity about the facade, I preseumed it was protected, so it was a surprise to see it come down. Apologies about the quality, took it on my phone...
Image
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby Praxiteles » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:02 am

[quote="kite"]:( Apologies for going off topic but the loss of Roches Stores started me thinking what was lost to Cork over the years, and what replaced same.
My top five would be]

You forgot one of the great emporia and craft centres of Cork: William Egan and Sons, Jewellers and Gldsmiths, Patrick's Street. The custom made display cases all disappeared when it closed. Recently, I thought I noticed three if not four of them in the foyer of Christie's Hotel in Blarney. A rag shop now occupies the site.

I will add to this:

James Mangan, Watchmaker, 3 Patrick's St.. All that remained of this business up to lately was the large pillar clock that stood outside of the shop. I am not sure if it survived the last attack on the street scape by the Corporation.

F. Guy's Photographic studies, book printers and stationers, used to be at 70 Patrick's St.. Surely everyone in the city and county at one time had their photos taken by this company.

Perry's ironmongers at 89 Patrick's Street.

Cox's piano emporium at 112 Patrick's St.

Cash and Co. still extant but trading under Brown Thomas.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby Praxiteles » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:28 am

By some miracle of grace, I think it did. Surprisingly it did not strike me the last day I was in town but I will check later in the week

Image
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby d_d_dallas » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:35 am

Facades of 17, 18 Parnell Place are on the RPS

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/planning/developmentplan/pdf/Volume2.pdf

Presume this is a botched demolition job and they will have to reinstate. From what I saw of the Beasly St portion on a sunny bankholiday monday recently, they weren't being too careful at that end either.

Shame to carefully retain those facades for so long for this to happen.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby phil » Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:41 am

d_d_dallas wrote:Facades of 17, 18 Parnell Place are on the RPS

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/planning/developmentplan/pdf/Volume2.pdf

Presume this is a botched demolition job and they will have to reinstate. From what I saw of the Beasly St portion on a sunny bankholiday monday recently, they weren't being too careful at that end either.

Shame to carefully retain those facades for so long for this to happen.


If the full buildings were properly protected instead of being allowed to fall apart this would not have happened. Facade protection, in my mind, is the illusion of conservation. What is going to end up there now? Re-builds of preserved facades?
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Lavitts Quay

Postby Radioactiveman » Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:21 am

malec wrote:And also, now that they've starting knocking down these houses, does anyone know what will be built here? I remember seeing a hideous redbrick and blocky proposal for this site, hope that's not the final version

Image


OCP are about to go to planning for a three storey retail development here with a retail unit at basement level. Design is by Wilson Architects. Number 16 (the central brown building) is to be retained.
Great view of the Crawford extension in this image.


phatman wrote:Real pity about the facade, I preseumed it was protected, so it was a surprise to see it come down. Apologies about the quality, took it on my phone...
Image

The tool responsible for this should be beaten to within an inch of his life!! How long have these lasted, only for this to happen?
I'd suggest you contact Navigation House with your com[plaints but, frankly, you'd be just pissing against the wind!
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby jdivision » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:17 pm

Radioactiveman wrote:6. Citi Carpark site (permission granted, waiting for pigs to fly before we get liftoff here, it seems)
!

Is this the one off Grand Parade, if so development is likely to be delayed because as far as I know it's owned by the Kenny Group which is currently selling its entire portfolio.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby THE_Chris » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:30 pm

A-ha wrote:I was thinking the other day about the sale of Roches to Debenhams. I was wondering does anybody know will the supermarkets in Roches that are currently run by SuperValu be affected? Will they carry on as usual or are we to expect them to be taken over by another supermarket. I remember alot of talk a few years ago when Roches wanted to leave the food retailing sector. M&S took over some, SuperValu took over others, but word was that both Sainsburys and Superquinn were in the bid for them. What will happen to the existing stores and when can we expect Roches to close down in Cork?



A lot of people are worried about the Toilet scenario now. Face it, everyone that is in Cork goes for a piss in Roches. Noone uses the Tesco ones on Paul Street cos you have to pay. The public ones next to the Lee are too scary to go in.

So whats going to happen when the Roches ones get closed? Theres gonna be a lot of people wetting themselves.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby d_d_dallas » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:01 pm

go for a posh piss next door in BT's
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Re: College Road

Postby kite » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:03 pm

Radioactiveman wrote:There has been a serious breach of planning regulations at a development on College Road.
"Cliffords" shop (well known to generations of students) as well as no.'s 1 and 2 Westbourne, College Road have (over the weekend, surprise, surprise) been reduced to rubble to make way for a new development on the site. Planning permission for such demolition has not been granted.
PP was recently conditionally granted (04/28769) for the demolition of a portion of the existing shop and the dwellings and to construct 4 no. terraced townhouses along Highfield Avenue. With regard to the properties 1 and 2 Westbourne it was intended to convert these into 4 no. apartments.
Permission had previously been refused by CCC and ABP for the development of 8 no. student apartments on 4 floors at 1-3 Westbourne, College Road.
The applications were made by a Ms. Ann Clifford.

The Planning Department at CCC can be contacted as follows, if you feel this merits a complaint:
Telephone: + 353 21 4924321 / 4924324 / 4924325 / 4924720 / 4924722 / 4924723

Fax: + 353 21 4924706

e-mail: planning@corkcity.ie


:mad: Good to see the enforcement section of CCC are living up to their usual "high standards":o
The foundations are poured and blocks are on site.
Has retention been allowed by CCC?, or has it been applied for?
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Re: Patrick Street

Postby jdivision » Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:42 pm

daniel_7 wrote: Theres no justification for that, especially when there is numerous new developments lying vacent for this type of use and a need for good retail space in the city centre and they go and do that, cant get over that decision!But back to before the change of use, everyones always saying that theres not enough big premises for the big names in the city centre and this was a good example of a prime unit and was lying vacent for months and still not taking over, can anyone explain this? :

Basically large scale retailers won't locate in places like Lavitts Quay because the footfall is insufficient. They want to be on Patrick Street. Unfortunately regarding the unit you're discussing it's too small for their requirements - you've got to remember by the time Mahon Point was completed its units were already too small for most retailers - over the last two to three years most of them have nearly doubled their minimum size requirements. The units in the extension will be significantly larger. Fashion retailers are all stocking larger ranges now and a lot are doing higher margin goods like homewares etc. A lot of them are therefore waiting for Academy Street - as already stated by me deals for the two major units are basically signed and ready to go subject to planning.
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Re: Patrick Street

Postby kite » Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:57 pm

jdivision wrote:Basically large scale retailers won't locate in places like Lavitts Quay because the footfall is insufficient. They want to be on Patrick Street. Unfortunately regarding the unit you're discussing it's too small for their requirements - you've got to remember by the time Mahon Point was completed its units were already too small for most retailers - over the last two to three years most of them have nearly doubled their minimum size requirements. The units in the extension will be significantly larger. Fashion retailers are all stocking larger ranges now and a lot are doing higher margin goods like homewares etc. A lot of them are therefore waiting for Academy Street - as already stated by me deals for the two major units are basically signed and ready to go subject to planning.


:D Does bigger always mean better for the consumer, or the city? I would not think so.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby kite » Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:51 pm

[quote="Radioactiveman"]
5. Grand Parade Hotel (Frinailla have been slow to act here, possibly delayed even further by negotiations regarding the Library)
Any further info or views on any of these projects would be more than welcome.

:mad: Frinailla are not only delayed on their Grand Parade development, a little bird told me that a serious wobblier was thrown at a pre planning meeting when Frinailla were told that apartment development would NOT be welcome on the second phase of their Dennehys Cross site ( the Dennehys showrooms on model farm road), senior planner Ronnie McDowell was in attendence, (only one off housing accepted so it seems?)
Looks like pressure from CSD and their NIMBY Councilor buddies is having an effect. :(
Stand alone housing will make this site a very expensive buy for Frinailla.
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Re: Patrick Street

Postby daniel_7 » Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:37 pm

jdivision wrote:Basically large scale retailers won't locate in places like Lavitts Quay because the footfall is insufficient. They want to be on Patrick Street. Unfortunately regarding the unit you're discussing it's too small for their requirements - you've got to remember by the time Mahon Point was completed its units were already too small for most retailers - over the last two to three years most of them have nearly doubled their minimum size requirements. The units in the extension will be significantly larger. Fashion retailers are all stocking larger ranges now and a lot are doing higher margin goods like homewares etc. A lot of them are therefore waiting for Academy Street - as already stated by me deals for the two major units are basically signed and ready to go subject to planning.


I understand what your saying but there is still no excuse for units to be lying vacant in lets say mp, surly they should try and get someone to take them over and the unit on pat st was fairly big if you were ever in there, thats why i was saying that it was finally a unit that was big enough for these retailers but yet its being turned into a bank. If planning was granted, what are the plans for the citi car park site and whats the story with the grand parade hotel ? Also, anyone knoe when a decision is due on the libary and sullivans quay?
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