cork docklands

Re: cork docklands

Postby Angry Rebel » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:28 pm

MrX wrote:I know several TDs and I can assure you it's not a cake walk of a job. Yes, the money isn't bad but you are literally on the phone pretty much every waking hour answering constituency queries and have to be nice to every single caller, regardless of how big/small or sensible their query actually is. The work load is mind-blowing.


I'm in the same position in my job, so are many people in sales and other such service industries.

You can cock up as a doctor, an architect, a sales person in Tesco and get fired but as an elected representative you do not have any tenure. You face the electorate every 5 years and there are absolutely no guarantees of keeping your seat.


I recognise the fickle nature of politics, but wouldn't it be great to only worry about getting the sack 1 day out of 1825!?! In every other job you can get the chop on any given day!

It would actually be highly beneficial for companies and sectors to get some of 'their people' into the political sphere too as it means that their views are represented.


So, we move to a Yank like system where there are more vested interests than voices of the people!? Right. :rolleyes:

Listen, I agree with your basic point that more talented people, or to avoid offending serving politicians, people with different skills/talents, should be encouraged into the political sphere. I just don't think some sort of guarantee which ends up costing business is the answer.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby MrX » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:09 am

Angry Rebel wrote:

So, we move to a Yank like system where there are more vested interests than voices of the people!? Right. :rolleyes:
er.


I'm not suggesting that they be company sponsored, I'm just suggesting that certain sectors are vastly over-represented in the make up of the Dail and others are grossly under-represented simply because some people have more control over their hours and have more time on their hands than others.

I mean how many engineers, architects, planners, scientists, IT people, nurses, gardai, hospital doctors etc ever make into Leinster House?

From what I can see it's teachers, who tend to be well-meaning, good at talking rather a lot and not doing all that much. Accountants and legal professionals who tend to be good at tying themselves into knots of red tape and a good smattering of self-employed business types who often seem to follow some very narrow agendas...
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Re: cork docklands

Postby browser » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:53 pm

What's the latest on the Howard Holdings application for the Arena etc? Surely a decision is due soon?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Bourgeoise » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:15 pm

MrX wrote:I'm not suggesting that they be company sponsored, I'm just suggesting that certain sectors are vastly over-represented in the make up of the Dail and others are grossly under-represented simply because some people have more control over their hours and have more time on their hands than others.

I mean how many engineers, architects, planners, scientists, IT people, nurses, gardai, hospital doctors etc ever make into Leinster House?

From what I can see it's teachers, who tend to be well-meaning, good at talking rather a lot and not doing all that much. Accountants and legal professionals who tend to be good at tying themselves into knots of red tape and a good smattering of self-employed business types who often seem to follow some very narrow agendas...


Ruari Quinn's an architect.

Made a good finance minister.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby browser » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:33 am

I see something is being done on Seveso sites in the Finance Bill (see below). While I'm no fan of this Government, and whilst you would like to see action on tax incentives and infrastructure, is the Seveso issue the most pressing and is this measure enough to keep (get?) things moving in the docklands? Would be interested in hearing views.



Tax incentive a step to kick-starting docklands


By Eoin English
A TAX incentive scheme announced in the budget has been described as a small step towards kick-starting the multi-billion regeneration of Cork’s docklands.


But opposition parties and business leaders demanded further action and commitments from the Government to get the ambitious project, which has the potential to create thousands of construction jobs, off the ground.

Cork Chamber also criticised the fact that State supports for a crucial piece of infrastructure — the Eastern Gateway Bridge designed to open up the south docks — were not included in the budget.



Cork City Council has drafted ambitious plans for the transformation of the 400-acre docklands region site into a waterfront urban quarter with thousands of apartments, offices, hotels and an events centre.

The Cork Docklands Forum, set up by the Government last year and chaired by former UCC president Professor Gerry Wrixon, has said the Exchequer should fund hundreds of millions of euro worth of infrastructure, including bridges and roads, to kickstart the development.

Its report said the potential of the project — the biggest proposal since the International Financial Services Centre in Dublin 20 years ago — is huge.

However, developers have baulked at paying the cost of basic infrastructure to the area. And much of the docklands is unusable because it has been occupied for decades by oil tanks and other high-risk operations — so-called Seveso sites.

Finance Minister Brian Lenihan announced plans yesterday to introduce a new tax incentive scheme to facilitate the relocation of Seveso sites.

There are three such sites in Cork’s Docklands owned by Topaz Energy, the National Oil Reserve Agency and Gouldings Fertilisers.

“This scheme will be subject to clearance by the European Commission from a state aid’s perspective,” said Mr Lenihan.

The Docklands Forum said offering grants to these companies to move operations would not breach EU state aid rules.

Cork Chamber chief executive Conor Healy welcomed the Seveso move but said a whole range of further measures are needed.

“We would hope to see additional support in the Finance Bill,” he said.

Fine Gael’s innovation spokesperson Deirdre Clune described Mr Lenihan’s announcement “as the one bright spot in an otherwise bleak and bad budget for everyone in the country”.

“One obstacle holding up the docklands project has been removed and that is good news,” she said.

Fine Gael senator Jerry Buttimer said he is disappointed that there was no clear commitment to funding the overall docklands project.

“This was promised before previous budgets and has not been delivered,” he said.

“The Seveso tax incentive is a small step and is subject to approval from Brussels.”
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:15 am

remains to be seen whats in the Finance Bill i suppose but the Seveso should have been done ages ago (Health & safety will be delighted, they wont have to keep sending pointless letters every time there is an application within a seveso zone) and if there is nothing for the rest of the docklands in the bill, well, thats just an out and out disgrace. Its bad enough we got landed with the airport debt and they still havent appointed a chairman to the airport authority. Remember, local elections next year. Dont hide from the councillor at the door, ask him what are they doing about the docklands. (Answer: Nothing, as they have no power).

Cork City Council last night voted in favour of rezoning a sports ground at Farranlea Rd in Wilton for a 100 bed facility for the HSE. Councillor Dave McCarthy questioned the move when he said Our Ladys Hospital is lying idle. Councillors have said its not setting a precedent though. (Presume they are hinting at O' Callaghans plans to get Cork Con rezoned).
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Re: cork docklands

Postby kite » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:18 am

Pug wrote:remains to be seen whats in the Finance Bill i suppose but the Seveso should have been done ages ago (Health & safety will be delighted, they wont have to keep sending pointless letters every time there is an application within a seveso zone) and if there is nothing for the rest of the docklands in the bill, well, thats just an out and out disgrace. Its bad enough we got landed with the airport debt and they still havent appointed a chairman to the airport authority. Remember, local elections next year. Dont hide from the councillor at the door, ask him what are they doing about the docklands. (Answer: Nothing, as they have no power).

Cork City Council last night voted in favour of rezoning a sports ground at Farranlea Rd in Wilton for a 100 bed facility for the HSE. Councillor Dave McCarthy questioned the move when he said Our Ladys Hospital is lying idle. Councillors have said its not setting a precedent though. (Presume they are hinting at O' Callaghans plans to get Cork Con rezoned).


McGonigle, Shannon, Shields, Corr et al will do as they are TOLD at the end of the day.
And from today's Cork Independent.

KEEPING MUM
What a coy city councillor is Fine Gael’s Laura McGonigle!
Take a dekko at her website to see why. She tells us the Corpo lads and lassies met reps from Owen O’Callaghan Properties to discuss his plans for the Temple Hill Cork Con site, The 93 houses, the 354 apartments, the offices, the shops. Etc, etc.
What’s more, the co-opted councilor would “be most interested to hear your views on the O’Callaghan proposal”. More to the point, we’d be most interested to hear her views particularly in light of the fact that the Council and City Manager have already said no more rezoning of green acres. Not even over their dead bodies. Is she for that, or not?
Has she got a solid opinion on the thorny subject or has O’Callaghan already got carte blanche for his very controversial project?
Or is she merely trying to gild the Lilly? She claims to represent punters in the Ballinlough/Silverdale area who are already up in arms at the traffic chaos in a section of the city that can no longer cope with poor planning,
They certainly would like to know where she really stands on O’Callaghan’s plan.
She says we can be assured she’ll be voting against the development in its current form. But what does she mean by “in its current form”?
Oh, and she’d also welcome your views on the Osprey Properties plan to construct 128 houses and 127 apartments at ChurchLane just down the road,
No doubt also in its “current form”.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:24 am

the residents out by the silver key, who objected to the Eircom site being developed, made a good point in that a decision can wait until plans are revealed for O' Callaghan Properties development on the Cork Con grounds. Seems logical to me. One of the objectors mentioned that O' Callaghans already had a plan prepared for the Cork Con site which again makes sense but the question remains will the city authorities row back on their plans to rezone a sportsground for residential. Who knows until the plan is seen. Dont expect Fianna Fail to object though.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Steady » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:41 pm

remains to be seen whats in the Finance Bill i suppose but the Seveso should have been done ages ago (Health & safety will be delighted, they wont have to keep sending pointless letters every time there is an application within a seveso zone) and if there is nothing for the rest of the docklands in the bill, well, thats just an out and out disgrace. Its bad enough we got landed with the airport debt and they still havent appointed a chairman to the airport authority. Remember, local elections next year. Dont hide from the councillor at the door, ask him what are they doing about the docklands. (Answer: Nothing, as they have no power).


I am in favour of well-planned development of the Docklands. With suitable infrastructure etc etc. It could be a nice place to live.

But how much money should the taxpayers of Ireland (or Germany) have to chip in to make it "viable"? After all (and I don't have a problem with this), developers want to develop down there to make a profit.

Not to "improve the city".
Or to "enhance the public realm"
Or to "create a new gateway to the city".

It is for money the developers do their thing, and fair play to them. But why should the taxpayers of Europe pay for the removal of the Seveso sites so that the developers can do their thing? Maybe it's all academic now anyway, with the credit crunch.

The airport is a bit different, becasue it is a strategic piece of economic infrastructure which all of the citizens of Munster (or farther afield) can use, and may need.

But the Docklands is all about the money to be made by Developers, and more power to their elbows if they can squeeze a few hundred million out of "Europe". Obviously if the Docklands goes ahead, it will benefit many of us who work in the industry, which is what we want too, financially.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:26 am

well we need developers to actually build the things because as you can see, if we waited on the government, it would never get built. They are taking the risk so are entitled to profits. The most frustrating part is that If govt had managed the airport project properly, they would have had the money for the bridge which would kickstart the whole docklands. I do some project management work and if I thought there was like minded people out there, I would work some hours for free to get Docklands going as its so slow in moving.

I agree with you to the extent that we have to balance what the taxpayers contribute to what they will get back but I think most people would agree a new bridge would hugely improve the infrastructure of cork and keep traffic moving, given that the rest of the transport in cork is rubbish
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Re: cork docklands

Postby who_me » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:47 pm

It's a tough balance Pug, it sounds too much to me like the current US environment: capitalising profit & socialising loss.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:13 am

but if the planning process was in any way proper, theres no reason why developers cant be made to build the District Centres and Neighbourhood centres and infrastructure before or at the same time as they do their residential, office development etc. The planning process though doesnt appear to be used in such a manner.

The alternative though is to rely on the system and local/central government to do it which means it will never happen. Look at CIE putting 2 different planning applications through for Horgans Quay despite being told from the outset that they would need a Masterplan for Kent station. They still persisted, got refused, appealed to Bord Pleanala and got refused, all the time knowing they were wasting time and unknown amounts of tax payers money, whereeas if they had done the plan, they could have been kicking off the docklands as we speak.

I live in carrigaline and a transport study for the town was completed recently. Between that and the traffic studies completed by Port of Cork, they acknowledged the traffic and transport network for Carrigaline was poor and over capacity. At the same time councillors have apparently voted to rezone more land for houses! when i challenged them on it, they said they were afraid the developer would not build the recreation / amenitys he promised. Talk about the tail wagging the dog. Had it not ocurred to them to form a contract so the builder has to develop the recreation / amenity first and then be allowed build his houses? All this of course while the councillors then acknowledged there was no money to implement the transport study. Unbelieveable!

Its a case of the lesser of 2 evils, have nothing built by the local bureaucracy or try and put some semblance of control on whats built by developers. Current system fits between the 2 i think.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Mike Purdy » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:08 pm

Got this notice via eTenders on Friday, (Re: Pre-Qual for Public Realm Design):

"Cork Docklands is a propopsed high density mixed use urban regeneration project consisting of approximately 162 Ha and will ultimately provide for a population of 22,000 and 27,000 jobs which will be the key development project for the future of Cork City and its environs which has a current population of approx. 250,000. The project is for an international quality design of a masterplan and detailed design of 2.5 km of quayside amenity, streetcapes, multiple pocket parks and plazas, and which will meet with the objectives of the approved Local Area Plans and Public Realm Strategies."

"NOTE: To register your interest in this notice and obtain any additional information please visit the eTenders Web Site at http://www.etenders.gov.ie/Search/Searc ... x?ID=72902."


Nothing in 2009 budget - but at least they're thinking bout it!!
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:51 am

true, possibly they could have got this going some time ago but hey, they're doing something.vaguely.kind of.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby bosco » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:32 am

De paper made mention of forthcoming works being undertaken by the council to upgrade a stretch of the Marina. Narrowing the carriageway and adding parking spaces, raising the level of the road surface by 1 meter to facilitate future developments in the docklands. It's small, but it's a step in the right direction.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby SoundsDreamy » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:26 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7753171.stm

Belfast takes another step towards becoming Ireland's second city.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby mickeydocs » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:14 pm

Any updates on Atlantic quarter?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:17 am

no, i was looking at the planning on city council website recently and they were due to send in Further Info but havent. The lack of govt commitment on the docklands bridge is very poor. Also makes you wonder, with CIE in trouble, what will they do with the years- late-in-being-developed Horgans Quay? might be a positive in that CIE have to sell off the site and as per usual, private sector can do it properly.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby rockcastle » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:10 pm

mickeydocs wrote:Any updates on Atlantic quarter?


My understanding is they have until the end of Jan to put in the FI
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Re: cork docklands

Postby green_jesus » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:46 am

I came across this link...

http://www.haconnect.ie/portfolio/category/digital-marketing/

Will the Atlantic Quarter ever get built? :confused:

And is there any news on the R&H hall development?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:45 am

still waiting on the further info re atlantic quarter, they have as the previous poster said, 2 weeks to submit the further info

R&H Hall were asked for a lot of Further info and changes for their plans so i think they have until the end of Feb to submit that but they could always I assume re submit a plan after that date anyway

While waiting on the governments dithering about the money for infrastructure, Cork City Council to their credit have ploughed ahead with the Oral hearing as to the future road structure in the docklands so that report should be out in mid feb
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Re: cork docklands

Postby green_jesus » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:07 pm

Thank for the update. So it's after February before we know if any more progress has been made.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby SoundsDreamy » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:54 pm

Not a very realiable source but there was a mention on the echo about HH site and how they intented to proceed with hotel and Arch (conference centre) this probably makes sense in current climate. I'm sure a concert venue would be vibable and a hotel to could feed off that.

Any word on the GAA investing in their Grounds Pairc ui chaoimh or are they to busy in-fighting?:confused:

How long more before MAS move out of the showgrounds. I thought city successfully CPO'd the showgrounds.

Irrespective of the docklands going ahead the showgrounds could be cleaned up...:mad:
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Re: cork docklands

Postby lawyer » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:14 pm

Notice of CPO for Showgrounds on the Irish Examiner today,
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Re: cork docklands

Postby SoundsDreamy » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:24 pm

What kind of notice as I thought the CPO had been passed.
Has MAS even begun looking for another site? I'm sure Howard Holding would gladly part with old Cork City grounds in Bishopstown.
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