cork docklands

Re: cork docklands

Postby corcaighboy » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:32 am

Report in today's Examiner re the Docklands.

Officials reveal plans for multi-billion regeneration of Cork’s south docks

By Eoin English
THOUSANDS of spacious luxury apartments aimed at families will be built in Cork’s multi-billion south docks regeneration project, city officials have revealed.

So-called ‘shoe-box’ apartments have been banned and city planners have set generous apartment floor-space guidelines for developers in a bid to attract families back to live in the city centre.

The guidelines are contained in the city’s ambitious draft south docks Local Area Plan (LAP) — a detailed development blueprint for the area which was agreed by city council on Monday.

It aims to transform the south docks into one of the most attractive urban waterfront quarters in Europe with thousands of residential apartments ranging in height from five to seven storeys, and including four soaring landmark towers — one of which will be 22 storeys high at the Marina.

The LAP wants to see the construction of 10,000 homes and apartments, has set a target population of 20,000 and a working population of 25,000 in the region by 2027.

To help achieve this, planners have set down guidelines for apartment sizes that are substantially bigger than the Government’s minimum requirements.

The apartments will range from one bedroom dwellings for two people, to four bedroom dwellings for seven people, with a range of options in between.

Pat Ledwidge, the director of the city council’s Docklands Directorate, said this move was designed to make the apartments more attractive for families.

“We felt that if we wanted to encourage families to live in the docklands, we needed to have adequate living quarters,” he said.

“The apartments will also have generous storage space which has often been a problem area for apartments in the past,” he said.

And two massive planning applications for sites in the docks are to be lodged within weeks.

Property developers Howard Holdings and landowners the Tedcastle Group are expected to seek planning permission in August for a joint project to transform 30 acres of land near Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

Their project for a site three times the size of Croke Park, includes offices, residential and retail developments and a 200-bedroom hotel.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:50 am

its a great idea in fairness to put in the family size units - all they need to do now is move the seveso sites so the children wont be merrily playing with the local chemicals
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:44 pm

http://www.corkcity.ie/docklands/planning/southdocks.shtml

link to the south docks plan, submissions to be made by 24 aug 2007, prob the one and only chance to have your say to the local council so get cracking! I'll be mooting things like, start and finish the movement of kent station, integrate the intercity buses into that station, have integrated ticketing for all transport, have ferries collecting and dropping off up and down harbour pulling into monkstown, cobh, crosshaven,have half decent looking waterfront apartments etc etc
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Re: cork docklands

Postby who_me » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:56 pm

I know nothing of the costs of these things, but a budget of 130m for 3 new bridges over the Lee (especially if they're designed to allow boating access to the dockland area) seems incredibly low to me.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby corcaighboy » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:26 am

Irish Examiner report re the Port of Cork's container facilities moving from Tivoli. Anyone know if the vacated land will be designated industrial or residential?

Final plans for €160m port facility on display
By Eoin English

THE Port of Cork will unveil the final plans today for its massive €160 million container facility planned for Ringaskiddy. Port officials said last night that they have addressed several concerns about traffic, noise and visual impact which were raised by the public during the first round of public consultations last December.

They and representatives from their consultants, RPS Consulting Engineers, will outline later today several mitigation measures they intend to take to deal with those issues.

A draft Environmental Impact Statement on the massive project at Oyster Bank — which includes the reclamation of almost 18 hectares of land — will also be on display.

The massive project is being dealt with by the State’s Strategic Infrastructure Bill designed to fast-track major infrastructural projects.

Port officials are due to meet with that body within the coming weeks to finalise their planning application, which could be lodged within two months.

A final decision could be made by the middle of next year, depending on the outcome of public hearings.

The proposed new facility will replace the port’s city-based Tivoli Docks container facility.

With a capacity for 180,000 units, it handled 155,000 container units and port traffic is still growing.

The new container terminal, together with a multi-purpose roll on-roll off (Ro-Ro) berth, will be able to handle twice the volume of Tivoli.

Work is expected to be carried out in two phases — phase one will cater for 300,000 container units. Phase two will complete the facility allowing it to cater for 600,000 units.

The port also has plans to build a new €70m bulks facility at the nearby ADM jetty.

The plans for the port’s move downstream were first proposed in 2002, as part of the Port of Cork’s Strategic Development Plan.

Today’s public consultation sessions will take place at the Ringaskiddy Ferry Terminal between 11am and 2pm and again between 5pm and 8pm.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:03 am

The E.S.B.Power Station is due be be shut down by 2010 and that site should also be up for re-development.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby who_me » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:32 pm

And if Tivoli is residential, will it be a designated 'high rise' area?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:29 pm

who_me wrote:And if Tivoli is residential, will it be a designated 'high rise' area?



Yes in Cork thats a maximum Height of 3-Stories !
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Re: cork docklands

Postby d_d_dallas » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:46 pm

quote from rte: The power generating stations at Great Island in Wexford, Poolbeg in Dublin and Tarbert in Kerry are to close. The steam turbine at Marina in Cork is also to close but the larger gas turbine there will remain open.

looks like that site is staying industrial for the forseeable future...
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:19 pm

d_d_dallas wrote:quote from rte: The power generating stations at Great Island in Wexford, Poolbeg in Dublin and Tarbert in Kerry are to close. The steam turbine at Marina in Cork is also to close but the larger gas turbine there will remain open.

looks like that site is staying industrial for the forseeable future...


ESB to seek board approval for three plant closures

21/06/2007 - 8:02:04 AM

ESB management is to ask for approval from its board to close three power stations by the year 2010.

Among the stations earmarked for possible closure are Tarbert, Poolbeg, North Wall, Marina in Cork and Great Island in Wexford.

The move is part of deal with the Energy Regulator to bring fresh competition into the Irish energy market.

The agreement will also allow the ESB to build a new power station at Aghada in Cork.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby who_me » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:17 pm

Spinal Tap wrote:Yes in Cork thats a maximum Height of 3-Stories !


That's cool. We have very tall stories in Cork.. ;)

I was looking at purchasing an apartment in the block on the hill behind Tivoli (they all feature great balconies overlooking what's now the docks & river), but wondered how attractive they'd be if the container area was built up and blocked the view of the river. Little did I think it might happen so soon.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:45 am

Spinal Tap wrote:
Among the stations earmarked for possible closure are Tarbert, Poolbeg, North Wall, Marina in Cork and Great Island in Wexford.
.


as per the South Docks masterplan, the ESB wont be moving out of the MArina for the forseeable future

Navigation House up for sale through DTZ, 1 acre site, expected to get 15-20 million, OCP own the site next door
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Re: cork docklands

Postby THE_Chris » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:58 am

If they tore down the Aghada power plant instead of one of the others - its a magnificent site for a hotel.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:31 am

THE_Chris wrote:If they tore down the Aghada power plant instead of one of the others - its a magnificent site for a hotel.



The Aghada plant has some nice buildings - I was down there for the first time recently.

The former IFI site would also make a great hotel & marina site.

The docklands is a massive opportunity for Cork as I have been down there a lot recently for some of the Marquee concerts.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Radioactiveman » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:55 am

A few ideas for the docklands:

http://ireland.archiseek.com/news/2007/000190.html

http://www.newislington.co.uk/tuttifrutti/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From today's Evening Echo:

<img src="http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1836/plankl1.jpg">
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Re: cork docklands

Postby jungle » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:28 am

Has anyone heard about some plan to close the Mercy Hospital and South Infirmary and to house them in a new hospital to be built in the south docklands?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:35 am

jungle wrote:Has anyone heard about some plan to close the Mercy Hospital and South Infirmary and to house them in a new hospital to be built in the south docklands?



There was something in the Irish Examiner a few weeks ago about same.

mazing seeing as how much money the HSE have spent/spending on the Mercy etc.

It would make sense as I am sure that UCC would love to expand into those buildings / sites etc.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:55 am

24 July 2007

Howard Holdings wins city approval for event centre

By Eoin English
CORK CITY COUNCIL voted after an hour of secret talks last night to plough over €8 million of public money into Howard Holdings’ plans to build a €33 million conference centre in the docklands.
Councillors were asked to back a report from city manager Joe Gavin which recommended they support the company’s proposal, selected by a special city committee, to build the multi-purpose venue. However, they were unhappy with the amount of information they were given beforehand and they cleared City Hall’s public gallery. The media was also asked to leave.
They then quizzed Mr Gavin for an hour-and-a-half on the process which led to the selection of the Howard Holdings proposal, and on the details of the project, before resuming the public meeting just before 7.30pm.
Then, without discussion, councillors voted 19 to seven to accept the report.
It clears the way for Howard Holdings to submit a detailed planning application for the site it owns and which hosted the Live at the Marquee series over the last two years. It is understood the application could be with planners within weeks.
Subject to planning, the company hopes to have the venue open in September 2009. The three-storey glass-fronted building has been designed to cater for:
6,000-plus performances, including 1,150 seated;
seated concerts of up to 4,200;
conferences of up to 2,000;
gala balls of up to 800 diners.
However, the venue could also be configured into smaller modules to host smaller events ranging from 400 to 1,500 capacity. It will be linked directly to a 200-bedroom hotel with a 1,000-seat banqueting hall, and a 1,000-space car park.
Last night’s vote followed a public invitation from Mr Gavin last April for submissions from the private sector to provide a suitable site, design, build, fund and manage an event centre.
Four submissions were received — the Howard Holdings proposal; one from Medaza, who wanted to build the venue at the Showgrounds; Ascon, who wanted to build on a site at Black Ash; and the Hyde Partnership who wanted to build on the Atkins site at the Carrigrohane Road.
An assessment board of senior city officials examined the proposals and recommended the Howard Holdings project.
Fianna Fáil councillor Tom O’Driscoll welcomed the outcome of the vote.
“This has been long awaited. It will do a lot for Cork, making it a year-round destination.”
Fine Gael’s Joe O’Callaghan said the city has been crying out for such a venue for decades.
Socialist Mick Barry said he voted against the “hand-out to a big business concern” to highlight the fact the private sector has until now refused to provide the city with such a venue.

Sinn Féin’s Jonathon O’Brien criticised the lack of public debate on the proposal.

Looks like it just might happen for Cork in 2009.

No wonder the Socialists & Sinn Fein get rattled at the General Elections......
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Re: cork docklands

Postby theblimp » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:26 am

Not quite as wonderful as all that, I believe. I was connected to one of the other submissions and we raised BIG concerns about the manner in which the process was managed - e.g.: sent initial letter to City Management (CM) on 1st June looking for clarification on criteria under which submissions should be lodged. Many follow-up phonecalls and THREE weeks later we received a reply. This reply came on a Thursday and the submission had to be in for the following Monday (4 days, including a weekend). A request for an extension was denied. We submitted, expected to be called in for further discussion ('fleshing out') but nothing more until the media leak last week! There were only four submissions - it wouldn't have taken a lot to bring each in for a few hours to discuss each submission thoroughly.

Hand on heart I believe that the HH proposal is too small - 4,000 seats. Our own proposal was for up to 8,000 seats PLUS a second 2,000+ seated 'green-glens' type arena PLUS a massive indoor waterpark. Anyway you makes yer choices.....!

Think of it this way - major show hits Ireland a few years from now. They play 10,000 seats in Belfast, then 10,000 seats in the redeveloped Point - does it make sense for them to then move everything to Cork for 4,000 seats, or would it be better to play an additional night in Belfast/Dublin before heading across to Manchester MEN Arena for the start of the next leg?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:27 am

[quote="Spinal Tap"]However, they were unhappy with the amount of information they were given beforehand and they cleared City Hall’]

I'd certainly believe that this was NOTa choice of the 4 best proposals for the city with the best one being selected - i'd be interested to know the make up of the committee that chose it and why the public and the media were cleared from the gallery for a decision which involves spending 8 million of the public money

Maybe the other proposals werent as good but how do we know that? And why cant pairc ui chaoimh be fully redeveloped into a sports and event centre? Former councillor and now TD Ciaran Lynchs proposal for a feasibility study to do same is with teh councillors sports and recreation committee, where is that motion at?

i'm delighted at the docklands kicking off and some form of event centre for regular excellent concerts but its the way its chosen is a bit irritating
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Re: cork docklands

Postby theblimp » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:45 am

Agreed Pug - if we'd been part of what we felt was an open and transparent procedure we wouldn't have any problem with the result.

WRT Pairc Ui Chaoimh we mentioned in our submission that, at the very least, a discussion should be undretaken in relation to some mechanic bringing it inside an organisation overseeing 'activity' at that end of the docklands. We would have liked to engage the GAA in discussions about us designing/funding/building a 40,000+ all-seater as part of our overall development. Now however it looks like the city is going to give the GAA some of the showgrounds site (= public money since City is going to have to pay a LOT of money to Munster Agricultural Society as a result of the CPO) for nothing! If it's municipal money then there's an argument for a municipal stadium (ie - ALL sporting codes). Mind you this is still Cork, so I shouldn't be too surprised. ;)
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:31 am

on a separate note, Manor Park and CIe had appealed to ABP the outright refusal of their plans for Horgans Quay by CCC at end Feb 2007 - i thought it was due for ABP decision 5 months later, i.e. around now but looks as if a decision now wont happen until start October 07 - and the midleton railway now wont be done until 2009 - what a joke
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:34 am

theblimp wrote:Not quite as wonderful as all that, I believe. I was connected to one of the other submissions and we raised BIG concerns about the manner in which the process was managed - e.g.: sent initial letter to City Management (CM) on 1st June looking for clarification on criteria under which submissions should be lodged. Many follow-up phonecalls and THREE weeks later we received a reply. This reply came on a Thursday and the submission had to be in for the following Monday (4 days, including a weekend). A request for an extension was denied. We submitted, expected to be called in for further discussion ('fleshing out') but nothing more until the media leak last week! There were only four submissions - it wouldn't have taken a lot to bring each in for a few hours to discuss each submission thoroughly.

Hand on heart I believe that the HH proposal is too small - 4,000 seats. Our own proposal was for up to 8,000 seats PLUS a second 2,000+ seated 'green-glens' type arena PLUS a massive indoor waterpark. Anyway you makes yer choices.....!

Think of it this way - major show hits Ireland a few years from now. They play 10,000 seats in Belfast, then 10,000 seats in the redeveloped Point - does it make sense for them to then move everything to Cork for 4,000 seats, or would it be better to play an additional night in Belfast/Dublin before heading across to Manchester MEN Arena for the start of the next leg?



How many big shows even in London sell 10,000+ seats ?

Killarney has 4,250 seats with hotel facilities etc and manages to attract plenty of world class acts and plenty of punters from Cork and all over Munster.

6,000+ for a "Marquee" type event is plenty for a City the size of Cork.

The HH proposal is actually very realistic and feasable.

Personally Cork needs this badly as I along with others are fed-up with heading to Killarney 7 Dublin for good acts etc.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby who_me » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:02 pm

I'm actually quite happy with the HH proposal - but what on Earth is going on with the application & voting process?

Assuming everything was above board, why would the gallery need to be cleared & the media ejected?

How are we to trust (local or national) Government if they pull stunts like this?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:31 pm

who_me wrote:I'm actually quite happy with the HH proposal - but what on Earth is going on with the application & voting process?

Assuming everything was above board, why would the gallery need to be cleared & the media ejected?

How are we to trust (local or national) Government if they pull stunts like this?



Anywhere else in the World this development would be seen as essential to the future and well being of a City.

This country has way too many layers of red tape and quango's.

In the U.S. we would build these things and if its a good design and in demand by the community they were the people who determined its ultimate success.

Cork needs dynamism and developments like this must be welcome.

See any of the previous proposals for the Clarion Lapps Quay Site an dyou will be glad that Howards got involved.

They may not be perfect but they get things done.
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