The work of E. W. Pugin

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby PVC King » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:27 pm

PVC King
 

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby PVC King » Wed May 31, 2006 5:37 pm

St. Chad’s Cathedral
One of the finest neo-gothic church buildings in England, built to the design of Augustus Welby Pugin and opened in 1841. Much of the work is by Hardman & Co. The mother church of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Birmingham, it contains some splendid 19th century stained glass made by Hardmans, a 16th century Flemish pulpit, and a late medieval statue of the Virgin Mary, as well as one of the largest new manual organs in the UK, built by Walkers & Co in 1993.

http://www.birminghamheritage.org.uk/stchad.htm
PVC King
 

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Praxiteles » Wed May 31, 2006 6:42 pm

The link below shows a picture of the great Rood Screen build in St. Chad's by A.W. Pugin. Unfortunately, in the late 1960s it was dismantled and atomized. Recently, I believe, the Cross was reinstated but the other parts of the screen remain scattered in various places. Let me quote Nicholas Psevner on thi particular piece of vandalism: "Without the screen, we totally lose Pugin's intended drama of the nave space revealing the chancel as a giant reliquary, that is, for the relics of the 7 century Bishop of Mercia, St. Chad....housed in the gilt feretory above the High Altar reredos". Most of the bits and pieces of the screen are to be found in Anglican church of the Holy Trinity in Reading.

http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.victorianweb.org/art/architecture/pugin/4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.victorianweb.org/art/architecture/pugin/4.html&h=432&w=325&sz=44&tbnid=3W7rlGWsPNNshM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=92&hl=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dst%2Bchad%2527s%2Bcathedral%2B%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG


http://www.stchadscathedral.org.uk
Praxiteles
Old Master
 
Posts: 6044
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:02 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby PVC King » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:07 pm

It is ironic that the church will not permit anglicans to receive communion in their churches but does not object to important architectural fittings being transferred from important cathedrals to anglican churches
PVC King
 

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Praxiteles » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:35 pm

Just take a look at the 39 Articles published at the beginning of the Book of Common Prayer and you will see why there are doctrinal problems about that particular entreprise:

Articles 28 and 31 , I think, sould be sufficient to see that there still remains a good deal of ground to be made up before even an "agreed" doctrine of the Eucharist, for what that is worth, can be arrived at:

http://www.reform.org.uk/restore.php?page=http%3A//www.reform.org.uk/covenant/39.html
Praxiteles
Old Master
 
Posts: 6044
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:02 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby PVC King » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:46 pm

There are certainly differences between the faiths which present very deep spiritual contradictions; however in todays World both faiths have a lot more in common than most other religions and the recent increases in secularism and inter-faith partnerships have led to regular situations where members of both faiths find themselves in the others places of worship. I think that finding ways to solve these issues are a lot more important than altering a cathedral which doesn't need updating.


BTW

The story of St Chads is an interesting one and should be a salutory lesson to all those who wish to embrace the latest fads at the expense of important architectural fabric which I am sure was only created by the great sacrifices of a previous generation.
PVC King
 

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Praxiteles » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:30 am

If anyone is interested in viewing two wonderful example of neo-Gothic Rood Screens, I have just posted two examples built by A. Tepe, one in Utrecht the other in Amsterdam, which are still in place and largely intact. They can be found on postings # 830 and # 833 on the thread dealing with the reorganizationa and destruction of Irish cathedrals and churches.
Praxiteles
Old Master
 
Posts: 6044
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:02 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby sangallo » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:12 pm

Architect Francis Roberts has done a beautiful restoration job at E. W. Pugin's church of St Mary in Barrow on Furness:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/frarchitects/sets/72057594099490552/
sangallo
Member
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:26 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:25 pm

Yes, indeed. This is a far cry from the O'Neill hack-approach. The paint work looks very well but I am not convinced by that shaggy red carpet spilling around all over the place. The altar mensa would also look better where it was and should never have been moved. Where, however, are the altar rails?
Praxiteles
Old Master
 
Posts: 6044
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:02 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Oswald » Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:17 pm

Thomond Park wrote:It is ironic that the church will not permit anglicans to receive communion in their churches but does not object to important architectural fittings being transferred from important cathedrals to anglican churches


There is no irony if one allows that churches are used as places of worship rather than architectural museums. Worship should be conducted in accordance with the current liturgy of the religious denomination rather than a liturgy which may have obtained at the time the church was designed. Is the preservation of architectural fittings more important than freedom of worship?
Oswald
Member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:41 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Gianlorenzo » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:46 pm

sangallo wrote:Architect Francis Roberts has done a beautiful restoration job at E. W. Pugin's church of St Mary in Barrow on Furness:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/frarchitects/sets/72057594099490552/


E.W. Pugin and Ashlin's lovely church in Monkstown Co. Cork is currently undergoing restoration. It is a community project with many of the experts giving their time and expertise free. Thankfully to date there is no mention of any re-ordering, but there is one worrying aspect in that Alex White is involved. He was involved in the disastrous Cork Cathedral project and was also involved as a committee member in the Cobh debacle.
Gianlorenzo
Member
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:36 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby sangallo » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:42 am

Gianlorenzo wrote:E.W. Pugin and Ashlin's lovely church in Monkstown Co. Cork is currently undergoing restoration. It is a community project with many of the experts giving their time and expertise free. Thankfully to date there is no mention of any re-ordering, but there is one worrying aspect in that Alex White is involved. He was involved in the disastrous Cork Cathedral project and was also involved as a committee member in the Cobh debacle.


Paul Clerkin put up some drawings of Monkstown Church at #4 on this thread and there is a picture at #15.
Gianlorenzo, do you have any pictures of the interior?
sangallo
Member
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:26 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:50 pm

Gianlorenzo wrote:E.W. Pugin and Ashlin's lovely church in Monkstown Co. Cork is currently undergoing restoration. It is a community project with many of the experts giving their time and expertise free. Thankfully to date there is no mention of any re-ordering, but there is one worrying aspect in that Alex White is involved. He was involved in the disastrous Cork Cathedral project and was also involved as a committee member in the Cobh debacle.



http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/cork/monkstown/index.html
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5418
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Gianlorenzo » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:25 pm

Praxiteles wrote:Yes, indeed. This is a far cry from the O'Neill hack-approach. The paint work looks very well but I am not convinced by that shaggy red carpet spilling around all over the place. The altar mensa would also look better where it was and should never have been moved. Where, however, are the altar rails?


The rails are there. If you go through the pictures and in the one of the nave facing west to the rose window you can see them in the foreground. There is no gate however, but maybe that will be put back as it doesn't look quite finished yet.
Gianlorenzo
Member
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:36 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Praxiteles » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:54 pm

No! We are talking about Monkstown. Can you get someone to rust over and take a few shots - especially of the inside. Does anyone know what is goning on there'. Was there a planning application?
Praxiteles
Old Master
 
Posts: 6044
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:02 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Sirius » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:07 am

Praxiteles wrote:No! We are talking about Monkstown. Can you get someone to rust over and take a few shots - especially of the inside. Does anyone know what is goning on there'. Was there a planning application?


Permission was granted by Cork County Council two years ago to restore and reorder the church. If you wish to check it out, the file reference is 04/1991. There was no fuss and no appeal to An Bord Pleanala. Monkstown people are gentle folk who respect their clergy. They also hold Alexander White in high regard and are not impressed by Praxiteles pathetic attempt to smear someone who is a great architect and a perfect gentleman.
Sirius
Member
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:15 am
Location: Cork

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Praxiteles » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:43 am

Sirius:

Post °111 was not posted by Praxiteles. Indeed, no mention of Alex White appears in anything posted by Praxiteles on this thread.

Cool the steam!
Praxiteles
Old Master
 
Posts: 6044
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:02 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Sirius » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:17 am

Praxiteles wrote:Sirius:

Post °111 was not posted by Praxiteles. Indeed, no mention of Alex White appears in anything posted by Praxiteles on this thread.

Cool the steam!


Please accept my apologies, Praxiteles, as I now realise that it was Gianlorenzo who posted the statement that "there is one worrying aspect in that Alex White is involved". Can I take it that Praxiteles does not support Gianlorenzo’s smear tactics?
Sirius
Member
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:15 am
Location: Cork

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Gianlorenzo » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:38 am

Sirius wrote:Permission was granted by Cork County Council two years ago to restore and reorder the church. If you wish to check it out, the file reference is 04/1991. There was no fuss and no appeal to An Bord Pleanala. Monkstown people are gentle folk who respect their clergy. They also hold Alexander White in high regard and are not impressed by Praxiteles pathetic attempt to smear someone who is a great architect and a perfect gentleman.


I congratulate you on being elected to speak for the whole of Monkstown. What I said about Alex White is based on his involvement with the disaster which is the North Cathedral - re-ordered and what was proposed for Cobh Cathedral. I have met Alex White and found him a perfect gentleman. What I said was not a personal 'smear', but a comment on his involvement in ecclesiastical architecture and liturgy. It was he after all who proposed the adoption by the Cloyne HCAC of the discredited document "Liturgical Requirements for St. Colman's Cathedral. Context and Text" written by the pseudo liturgist Fr. Danny Murphy.

Can we then presume from what you say that the Sanctuary in Monkstown Church will be torn apart and altar rails removed etc. If so St. Colman's in Cobh will become even more unique in that it will be conserved in its original form. There are not many Pugin/Ashlin churches left, unfortunately. Future generations in Ireland will have no idea what a true Gothic church should look like.

You mention planning permission - what did it grant persmission for?

PS You should not malign poor Praxiteles, I happen to know the lady personally and she is a dear.
Gianlorenzo
Member
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:36 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:03 pm

Just as a matter of curiosity re Alex White: could Sirius supply us with some exmples of the work of this architect? The only examples for which I could find references were holiday homes in West Cork (possibly at Inchidoney) and a fish and chip shop in Cork.
Praxiteles
Old Master
 
Posts: 6044
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:02 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Gianlorenzo » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:06 am

Does anyone know exactly what is planned for Monkstown parish church. Sirius mentioned permission to re-order the church, but failed to answer my question as to what exactly was permitted.
Gianlorenzo
Member
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:36 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby LOAFIN ANDY » Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:00 pm

Here's another E.W. Pugin building. 'The Towers' or as now 'Meanwood Towers' in Meanwood, Leeds, West Yorks. I'd be interested to hear if any one has any more information on the site, especially if anjyone has any plans or drawings.

Regards

L.A.

[ATTACH]2439[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]2440[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]2441[/ATTACH]
Attachments

[The extension txt has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

towersold.jpg
towersold.jpg (173 KiB) Viewed 4044 times
Meanwood%20Towers%20LS6.jpg
Meanwood%20Towers%20LS6.jpg (54.93 KiB) Viewed 4016 times
LOAFIN ANDY
Member
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:30 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Gianlorenzo » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:37 pm

Meanwood Towers is situated off Parkland Gardens near Stonegate Road, Leeds. This house was built in 1867 by Edward W. Pugin for Thomas Stuart Kennedy, in gothic style. In May 1869 an organ house was completed to house a Schultze organ commissioned for Kennedy's wife. The organ house was centrally heated and could seat up to 800 people. The organ was built in 1869 by J.F. Schulze & Sons of Paulinzelle, Germany. A special wood-framed organ house, large enough for some 800 people, was built to accommodate it. In 1877 the organ was loaned to St Peter's Church Harrogate, and in 1879 it was installed by Brindley & Foster in the north transept of St Bartholomew's Church, with two additional Pedal stops (1 and 3) supplied by Schulze. The case of American walnut was made at this time.
http://www.armley-schulze.freeserve.co.uk/OrgHist.htm
The original tall ornamental chimneys of Meanwood Towers were shortened in 1969 as they were unsafe. The house has now been converted into flats.

“The Sixties, after all, had no taste for Victorian architecture.
Some, like Meanwood Towers in Leeds, have been subdivided into flats. "It has suffered a number of assaults on its fabric… and its gardens are built over with modern houses," writes Sheeran. "Yet it is still a striking sight, and one comes across it like a great, beached wreck."
George Sheeran recalls that story in the new edition of Brass Castles: West Yorkshire New Rich and Their Houses 1800-1914
Attachments
Meanwood Towers 4.jpg
Meanwood Towers 4.jpg (46.78 KiB) Viewed 3731 times
Meanwood Towers 5.jpg
Meanwood Towers 5.jpg (35.46 KiB) Viewed 3719 times
Gianlorenzo
Member
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:36 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby Gianlorenzo » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:43 pm

The famous Organ
Attachments
Organ St. Bartholemew's Armley 2.jpg
Organ St. Bartholemew's Armley 2.jpg (98.14 KiB) Viewed 3900 times
Gianlorenzo
Member
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:36 pm

Re: The work of E. W. Pugin

Postby LOAFIN ANDY » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:49 pm

yeah, I quite like it, shame about the flats. Going to try and get some photos of some of the internal detailing as mentioned in the attatched Listed Building description.
Attachments

[The extension txt has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

LOAFIN ANDY
Member
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:30 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland