O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby PVC King » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:28 pm

Any leaks would be attributable to the building contractors and should be receoverable as inherent defects; I have seen no evidence that ODT buildings have a higher incidence of inherent defect than any other architects but suspect that the reverse is the case
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby mickletterfrack » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:49 pm

I was wondering when that old faithful would be trotted out, 'any defects, its the building contractors fault ',
your an idiot. The architects specs for Letterfrack where followed but they didnt allow enough of an overlap on the cladding and also un-treated timbers are basically unpredictable in their movement.
The defects in ODTs buildings are design fault. They offer up all this sophistry about the at one with nature element to their buildings, but they dont actually understand the properties of the materials they work with.
Theres a bit of the Emperors new clothes syndrome to it all, and that includes alot fo the work going on around us.

Heres a question for you TP,
For a couple of hundred years artists have travelled to the west to avail of the wonderful light, the colours, hues and shades it throws up as the sea sky and land combine to offer a unique inspirational experience, you only have to look at a Paul Henry to see what unique spectral properties exist out there. But also on a practical note they have had to deal with harsh elements, ie the cold and damp.
So if you were putting a drawing studio in a design college where students are sitting at a desk not moving about much would you
A) Locate it strategicaly where this inspirational light and its thermal properties are availed of, or would you like ODT
B) Put it virtually underground encased in cold dank concrete and dependant on flourescent lighting
Oh hang on I know it was the building contractors fault.

On top of the defects that we both agree exist in their buildings , although Id blame the architect, you fault the sub-bies, in my opinion I find their buildings uninspiring and passionless, but then as they say
opinion's are like assholes everybodys got one.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:32 pm

I don't respond to trolls generally but in your case I feel that you should be removed from this forum
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby mickletterfrack » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:05 pm

Well as I have said consistently in my responses, Im still waiting for someone to correct me on the assertions I have made, up to now Ive merely been vilified for being the harbinger of some harsh but honest truths
which leads me to believe that my comments have been well founded albeit crudely put....

So TP if Architecture is a religion does this mean I have crossed the cartoon line with you....
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:13 pm

Don't mistake lack of engagement with lack of correction your assertions are so wide of the mark most wouldn't contribute. Your assertion that construction defects are not attributable to the main contractor are not supported by caselaw which is where Letterfrack should be heading if there is any water ingress after such a short time.

In relation to this award it is totally justified as was there selection to represent the RIAI at the Venice Biennial
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby mickletterfrack » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:18 pm

If my claims are so wide of the mark ... then wouldnt it have been much easier to correct me rather than continue my public tongue lashing...

Foot, shot and yourself... comes to mind, your countering your own claim by saying my comments have lacked engagement, Ive had plenty responses inculding your s , none of which addressed the issues I raised
ie. the building defects and also the fact no-one has countered those claims.
And come to think of it , if you respond again then your previous claim about not replying to "trolls" (which was a rather purile comment unbecoming of a member of the RIAI) will be called into question.

Regarding the leaks, considering both the Furniture college and the Glucksman are plagued with leaks, does this mean that both these contractors are to blame or should we lay that at the doorstep of the only other common element in this (besides the H2O!) and thats ODT.
You are annoying me know because your not reading what I say, I never said there were construction defects per se, I said there were design defects, if the spec say use untreated timber and the cladding spec does not overlap enough the best builder in the world cannot prevent leakage. Anyways surely regular site inspections be the architects would have picked up on these issues before completion.

The biennale piece was embarrassing, any apprentice 1st fix carpenter would have designed and knocked that up in his sleep.

Yes I know they have won many awards, that has been stated a number of times, in fact thats the main component of the argument to contradict what I have said. Thats kind of a given considering the thread title!
Awards mean very little, evey sycophantic organisation has them .

At this stage I hope someone can demonstrate in some empirical manner where the cracks lie in my logic, cos I just dont get the ODT work.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:26 pm

Design defects are a matter of opinion
Construction defects are a matter of fact

If you don't get it you shouldn't lampoon it and your assertation that you are capable of understanding clarifiaction is far from proven given your use of words such as idiot foot shoot etc.

The biggest embaressment here are your unbacked accusations supported only by your scattergun approach to discourse
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby shadow » Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:11 pm

1. Awards are not only a consequence of quality but of political influence. One might discount early AAI awards because of the narrowness of the constituency.

2. Architects must take some responsibility for performance, at least designing so that a building might hope to perform in the real world.

3. The Biennale project suffered from a lack of technical and architectural coherence with a mixture of constructional methodologies, which either illustrates a naiveté about such things, a desire to subvert them or an essay on the total disconnect between architecture and the methods of building.

4. In an world lacking differentiation in professions, art and other realms, architects have attempted to regain a rarefied platform by the use of the new, the original act, the difference. unfortunately this usually means that in order to be different extremes of expression are rife, leading usually to 2. or 3. hoping to get 1.

5. The ranelagh school suffers from many of the same difficulties in 3. Disconnected elements, the brick blockhouses on the corner, the steel framed stoa to the rear, the playground (roof) facing the wrong way, the timber extensions to the rear and the stone/concrete fire escape (after-thought it seems) to the front.

6. 1. is possible especially if you desire to be considered part of a particular milieu and thus Ranelagh owes a lot to Bonell & Gill and other Spanish, proto rationalist modernist work. However these are quotations rather than a piece of writing in its own right.

7. Ranelagh pushes the modernist objectification of function (via Stirling & others) into the realm of post classical thinking, with its two bays, large formal room at the middle which places it well within the post modern body of work, while not admitting it. Certainly better than the woeful Children's Court and IFC but still short on the coherent thread.

8. Where is disappoints however is in the lack of embrace in the user, the child and while the children offer much praise, it is relative, since what can they compare it against and certainly it is better than a tin shed which it replaced.

9. Being critical is not useful. It is better to illuminate so that people can make their own mind up. Generally I am not a fan, the work tends towards the shallow projection of image over content and the disappointment continues. A good graphic in a magazine does not architecture make.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:22 pm

Good answer
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby modular man » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:12 pm

shadow wrote:Generally I am not a fan, the work tends towards the shallow projection of image over content and the disappointment continues. A good graphic in a magazine does not architecture make.


I would have to say that in my opinion ODT are one of the few practices in Ireland if not in Europe who have, for the most part rejected trying to sell an image. I have always found that their work is far better in the flesh then it looks in magazines and demands a certain respect upon inspection. Even visiting an exhibition of theirs a few years ago it seemed that their concern was with the exploration of space through models and sketches rather then flashy 3d imagery. (The drawings tended to be extremely simple and showed no more then was necessary.)
I would argue that if any of their buildings project an image of shapemaking there is generally a very considered reason and it has not been an arbitrary response to get into some magazine.
Having said that, I do not think that they are above criticism.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby mickletterfrack » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:20 pm

ThomandPark I think Tubby the little dog who died when the Tacoma Narrows Bridge fell into Puget sound might take exception to your comment below. Or maybe you think that was down to the builders and not the bridges inherent design faults that caused its collapse.
shadow wrote:Design defects are a matter of opinion
Construction defects are a matter of fact
.

TP your far too sensitve, a few months in the trenches working with the brickies and chippies would soon roughen your edges, or have you assumed the role of some kind of language police ensuring the debate doesnt cross the bounds of social and politicaly correct speak, you only have to look around you to see where that has gotten us all.

Thanks Shadow now I understand better why I dont get the ODT buildings.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby PVC King » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:37 pm

I have done my few months on sites and yes they are a hardy bunch; however I was lucky enough to work with true professionals who didn't cut corners and didn't sub jobs off hence the architects plans worked.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby BostonorBerlin » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:22 pm

I see the glucksmann gallery storeroom got flooded destroying alot of the art in storage.
Handy that to have a subterranean storeroom in a building next to a river. :D, and the canteen got a battering too.
Thanksfully the ARt that is that building has survived, must have been the millions spent on it that saved its edifice, maybe more should have spent on the structure .

I know its the builders fault, those bloody shuttering carpenters always messing up the deign flaws, structural indequacies of Irelands great raft of iconic CT buildings.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:19 pm

The Glucksman Recovery Fund
http://www.glucksman.org/support.html
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:31 pm

Agreed with Bostonorberlin on the basement storage next to a river, not really a great idea
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby missarchi » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:01 pm

architecture goes underground art is risky underground...
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby shadow » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:48 pm

"The Glucksman Recovery Fund" Is this a joke? Is it not insured? If not one wonders about the logic of building in a flood plain if insurance was not possible and worse if insurance was not available to build a basement, or is it because there is a basement that insurance was not possible. Questions questions..........
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby BostonorBerlin » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:17 am

The Glucksman Recovery Fund
http://www.glucksman.org/support.html


Heres a list of what will be the top donors I supect
RIAI Best Public Building in Ireland 2005
RIBA 2005 award winner European category
2005 Project of the Year, UK Buildings Services Awards
Sustainable Energy Ireland award
Best Modern Building in an Irish City 2005
UK Civic Trust Award 2005
Shortlisted, 2005 Stirling Prize
One of the 1001 Buildings you must see before you die (or before the river floods again)

I used to think "Architecture - How Genius disfigured a practical art. "
now Im just thinking "Architeture - How Stupidity disfigured a practical art"
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby bitasean » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:56 am

I'm jumping back to the Ranelagh School here but I pass it twice a day on my cycle into work and sometimes when I'm coming from the canal (and you see it as you turn the corner) I wish it was extended to form a terrace twice or three times its current length. I just find the proportions f**king lovely! And its the only building that I know that I wish there was more of, which I reckon is as good a compliment as you can give an inanimate object. So while some of the comments regarding bad detailing may hold water (pun intended) the overall positive effect is has on the city far outweighs any negatives.
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