O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:02 pm

O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects have been presented with the RIAI Gold Medal by the President Mary McAleese. At an event at the RIAI in Merrion Square, Ranelagh Multidenominational School was announced as the winner of the medal for the period 1998-2000.
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http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2005/000227.html
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:24 pm

Woo-hoo!
Congratulations to O'D+T.
They got my vote in the poll here (he said smugly). Other buildings were close in my mind, but I think this one will age really well- will possibly get better over time.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby what? » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:50 pm

Its about time they were getting noticed as the cream of irish architecture. Rather than just regurgitating polite modernism, they allow poetry and a sense of mythology to exist in their buildings, giving them a depth and resonace that other architects can only look at in puzzlement. ODT are to my mind far and away the most interesting office in Ireland at the moment. Well Done, and well deserved.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby Sue » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:30 pm

Sorry to be a damp squib, and I really know nothing about architecture except that I know what I like, but I find this building really ugly and I'm flabbergasted that it's won such a prestigious award. I passed it only a couple of weeks ago and was surprised to see the weathering damage to the timber in the building etc. Am I alone in being underwhelmed?
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby PVC King » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:43 pm

Yes,

It is a fantastic building in the way it relates to its surroundings and its usability.

To put things in context it replaced 3 wooden prefabs and a corragted iron church that would have been more at home in Mombassa than Ranelagh.

Well Done O'Donnell & Toumey the award is well deserved as evidenced by this award and how impossible it is to get a child into the building following a near closure shortly before due to lack of interest.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby what? » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:46 pm

sue, your'e entitled to your opinion that the building is ugly. but there is more to architecture than the current (modern) obsesssion with facile beauty and immaculate appearance. this trend towards the abstract and infinate is bordering on irrelevant to the nature of building architecture and the human condition which are both in a state of perpetual decay and renewal. What ODT do in many of their buildings is allow this deacy to be an intentional part of their buildings so that they can exist in time and not in some unachieveable, abstracted realm.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby AndrewP » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:26 pm

I've only seen pictures, but I don't get it either. And what exactly is facile beauty? Do you mean if something is shiny and new-looking, it has less integrity than something that's made to look like it's being weathered away as soon as it's built?
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby what? » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:40 pm

yes, buildings that are made to exist in some abstract world which deny both the beauty and complexities of life lack the integrity and awareness that a building like this possess. they are focused on being a fixed image of perfection. These images end up betraying their inadequacies by the very fact that they can never achieve what they set out to be, immaculate, infinite and immaterial. Time makes these buildings look sad and disillusioned, whereas the ranelagh school has the potential be enriched as it ages.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby roskav » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:21 pm

HORAY! What ..... a passionate intelligent opinion expressed succinctly!
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby GrahamH » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:59 am

Very nicely put what?.
It will mellow very well over time, indeed this is the greatest appeal of it for me even now - it's a lovely 'soft', subtle building that sits in its environment exceptionally well.

It is also eye-catching on another level too, as when you see that sandy brick for the first time in the coner of your eye, you immediately dismiss it as just another structure that's been clad in 'quality' brick to compensate for a complete lack of design or innovation.
Realising it is much more than this simply adds to the appeal of what is a thoroughly attractive building.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby wren » Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:39 am

I'm a definite fan of O'D+T and think they absolutely deserve their medal. I really like the Glucksman Gallery (though I've only seen photos of it). I have a minor problem with their use of untreated timber though; Ireland does not have the climate for it. Both the Ranelagh School and Letterfrack show blackening of the timber where it is not in the path of the sun. I like the idea of the untrated wood forming its own protective silver skin against the elements, but I think anyone who has been to Letterfrack recently will agree that damp blackening mildewed wood is probably not what they had in mind for a building weathering gracefully.

Is the oak in the Glucksman gallery treated?
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby shadow » Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:34 am

Somebody once told me that the selection of any winner in any competition is a reflection on the assessors who make the selection. This result is a surprise, not necessarily by what was included but by what was left out. As for the school this is a building designed by and for adults. The details, scale and organisation are less about the direct experience of the young and more about the rarefied air of the adult.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby mickletterfrack » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:47 am

ODT are a joke, as James Krenov says people get away with bad craft by calling it art.
I went to visit the new gallery in Cork a few months after it opened, hadnt seen it before but heard lots about it. Glucksman more like yucks man didnt like it all, all that rubbish they went on about in the press releases, award winning, 'respecting the site, inserting into the woodland' totally crap if you ask me, I struggled to find a redeeming feature.
It doesnt work as an art space, or lend itself to viewing or interpreting anything. It already feels like it needs a facelift. The only plus side for me was that seeing this cluttered junkheap helps me to understand better what terms like, form, function, design, detail, craft style are about, cos its certainly not present here. Id love to have seen some of the other submissions. It was a lovely location, I spent many summer evenings lazing by the river here listening to the water and the tennis balls, we used go 'bushing' by the tennis courts on the river there..
Are they really the leading architects of this generation? Whilst browing in the bookshop the register girl and an attendant were talking, he was saying that ' its only a open a couple of months and already its leaking all over the shop' (he was from Cork after all) . Did they learn nothing in letterfrack, capillary action. treated timber, bare concrete. I cant get this building and everyone else does. Dont good architects take an interest in the minutiae of their buildings, ODT look like they gave a bad mockup to the builder and moved on, everything in it was distasteful and badly laid out. For instance you have to look askew at items in the sealed room, wheelchairs need to get the lift from the cafe (which feels like a bunker and not a woodland cafe) to the loo (whos style is out of step with the rest) , the stair rail look likes a leaving cert metalwork project, the doors they found in a skip, I ran out of the place. Oh i also heard someone turned down a job in the Glucksman because there are no offices for people to work there, have a look next time you visit theres no space for anyone located in the building to work in, one person ended up having to work out of their car.
They also screwed up the Letterfrack furniture college, completely inappropriate, non-functional design for its location and purpose. And that piece of crap they sent to the biennale in Vienna was embarrassing.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby what? » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:01 pm

i havnt seen their piece for the Vienna Bienalle. or heard of it for that matter.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby maggie » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:27 pm

I'm interested to know which Architects mickletterfrack likes? And which buildings?
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby Peter Fitz » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:49 pm

bit of an agenda there perhaps 'mickletterfrack' ?
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby shadow » Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:46 am

Ok so we have gone from being critical about everything to being critical about nothing. Raising up various candidates on pedestals is not a progressive way forward, especially when you see the quality of work that appears daily in Europe and in the new accession countries. For the most part most of the work here is by and large pedestrian intellectually and suffers seriously from an inability to bring the complete composition to a meaningful relevant conclusion. The Ranelagh School, while being one of the better works by ODT it certainly has major questions over its relationship to it s subject. So too does the Glucksman. Just because it is different does not grant it absolution to be merely wilful. Regardless of stylistic preferences we should be working toward a critical position that can discuss these matters without relying on accusations of snobbery or axe grinding. The work has to present itself without the cloak of favouritism or influence and be seen in its true state as is. A case in point is Henngean.Peng's Kildare Offices that will likely receive awards but is a seriously flawed work conceptually and materially. Yet we will get threads extolling the adventurousness, the "dynamic" facade, the "social" ramps and the crisp brutal detailing. There will be little time for the mundane-ness of the curtain wall, the uncomfortable ramps or the unresolved joints and corners.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby Peter Fitz » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:11 pm

i've no problem with criticism shadow, however mickletterfrack's comments dismiss entirely two of OD+T's most celebrated works & indeed their entire practice as a 'joke' ... seems a little unbalanced.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby PVC King » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:19 pm

I totally agree;

and would further request a detailed critique of the Ranelagh School from Shadow
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby mickletterfrack » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:30 am

Maggie...I like some French architecture and also the new Cork County Council offices but all in all I dont like any Irish architects or major recent public work that I can think of. I think it has something to do with Irish architects being very unoriginal in their thought and design,they follow fashion and achitectural flavours,whether its Calatrava or Pei or Libenskind. Whatever is heralded in the architectural world is basically re-formulated by Irish architects and presented to an ignorant public as something original. Maybe its because being a relatively closed shop in Ireland ie.UCD student architects are totally corrupted , the same school of thought is hammered into the same crop of architects produced every year. Some kind of incestuous corruption of their thought process occurs, you only have to look at how many of them get shacked up. This theory is some ways is proven by the sterotypical and similar reactions of PeterFitzpatrick and ThomandPark to my earlier comments, neither have choses to address any particular issue I raised about ODT instead took a kind of uniform professional offence to it all.
Is the term 'Celebrated Works' supposed to mean something PeterF... FrankWright has alot of celbrated works too most if not all of which are falling down,the only thing keeping them up is rich patronage.
I took the ceiling off my 100 year old cottage today, the timbers are immacualte, the lime mortar and slate show no signs of any water damage, yet ODT cant design a roof or facade that doesnt leak...end of story... oh hang on my mistake the purpose is not to design functional living working spaces its to be celebrated!
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby Peter Fitz » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:04 pm

no offence taken mick, & not sure how my 'offence' could be stereotypical.
I think if your going to completely dismiss glucksman & the furniture college of having any merit whatsoever, (i'm thinking in the wider context of the general rubbish thats built), then it requires more justification than your rant, 'glucksman more like yucksman' etc...

'celebrated' refers to Glucksman winning RIAI best public building in 05 & being nominated for the stirling prize ... similar acknowledgement for letterfrack & the pavillion ... which doesn't by any stretch mean that both are above criticism, just deserving of a better overall critique, than the simple dismissal of all their work as rubbish.

What international influence was followed at letterfrack, their interpretation there is specific to that site & its history, so who are they ripping off ?
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby mickletterfrack » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:41 pm

PeterF. ... everything I said went way over your head... back to 1st year for you.... God is in the details and all that.... suffice to say you havent addressed any point I made , you merely took exception to the manner in which I made it... and thats whats sterotypical, among other things..

I didnt make a simple dismissal of their work I pointed out some glaring defects in it, (I merely mentioned a handful, believe me there are dozens more). Outside of any merit derived from breaking new design ground buildings also have a practical purpose to perform especially for the people who use and look at them. If a building fails as a functional entity then I find it hard to justify it no matter how revelutionary the design is.

Dont talk about interpretation of the site ether, I know for a fact that ODT waned to demolish the existing Quaker building that was there. How interpretive is that. None of their award winning buildings sit well in their environment. Most structures of that size will have inherent qualitys and appeals simply because of their sheer size, the skill and talent lies in architecting the appropriate solution, something ODT fail to do, they simply drop
a brick from outerspace on a site.

I believe ODT take their influence from simple craftsmen, they look at the very basics of what joiners, masons, tradespeople do, basic forms of what these people will construct day to day, they spruce it up with some verbage and then present it as some fantastical interpretation. You just have to look at the buildings to see this.

Big deal they got an RIAI award, that doesnt prove anything and says more about their peers than about ODT, as the greeks said you can judge a society by its heroes , maybe the same can be applied to RIAI. Next thing you know you will want us to 'celebrate' an architect who designs flyovers for motorways with a seat on Aosdana... oh shit they just did that.

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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby PVC King » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:33 pm

Mick,

The Ranelagh School was built directly opposite the Georgian front door of Deirdre Kelly one of Dublins leading heritage commentators who in her very qualified opinion decided that it would sit well in the context of a Georgian Terrace and nearby Square.

What have ODT done to you you appear to have a hell of a chip on your shoulder in their direction.
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Re: O'Donnell + Tuomey Architects win RIAI Gold

Postby mickletterfrack » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:18 pm

Thomand Park...
ODT have wasted alot of taxpayers money and also destroyed a number of beautiful sites...
but to answer your question they aint ever done anything to me...

Your response falls into the same bracket as previous respondents... stereotypical...

Im still waiting for someone to respond to any of the actual issues I raised regarding ODT buildings,
their design, detail , and the fact they leak...
so far all Ive heard is that Ive been ranting and have a chip... blah blah blah... very sensitive types out there all together.
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