well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby jpsartre » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:36 pm

Arthur's Quay shopping centre is the worst city centre building in Europe


What about the apartment block on Sarsfield St.- the one with the balconies. I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I look at it. Its just so horrid.

Is shanekeane James Howard Kunstler? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ZeXnmDZMQ
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby shanekeane » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:55 pm

I don't deny that other buildings in Limerick are completely ugly too, but Arthur's Quay is the worst because of its central position which, in my view, completely cheapened the feel of the whole city centre. If we're talking about the aesthetic qualities of buildings without reference to their context, then everything built in the 20th in the city centre is so awful, that it seems like a waste of time comparing their awfulness. In any case, since my original point was about the mismanagement by the city council, I think the wealth of examples merely supports that point.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Dreamstate » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:28 am

shanekeane wrote:I don't deny that other buildings in Limerick are completely ugly too, but Arthur's Quay is the worst because of its central position which, in my view, completely cheapened the feel of the whole city centre. If we're talking about the aesthetic qualities of buildings without reference to their context, then everything built in the 20th in the city centre is so awful, that it seems like a waste of time comparing their awfulness. In any case, since my original point was about the mismanagement by the city council, I think the wealth of examples merely supports that point.


I think its more the 21st Century and late half of 20th Century buildings that you mean really?
Arthurs Quay Shopping Centre was applauded by the populus when it was built .Arthurs Quay Park won numerous awards and now the council want to build on it ( thanks to Mr.Tiernan).......The worst 3 recent buildings in Limerick in my opinion are ( no particular order ) Cornmarket development (i.e.- Smyths , the Car Park , whole block etc..) Riverpoint and The Clarion ....but there are many others that i could name.....................................:o


Also , just because Estate agents tell the papers to tell us that buildings are good doesn't mean they are......'Pen and paper refuse nothing' i guess as the quote says

Whats the story with the boat club at Sarsfield Bridge? I hear its due for 'DE-LISTING' even though its in the recently published National Inventory of Architectural Heritage booklet

Can anyone shed some light???
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby shanekeane » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:55 pm

Well I definitely agree that the 21st century architecture is undistinguished, not least the stumpy high rise buildings. The whole riverside is, in fact, an abject failure. But personally I feel that everything that went on in the city centre in the 20th century made a beautiful city ugly: Arthur's Quay, Penneys, Roches, Liddy Street, Dunnes Stores, AIB bank, Bank of Ireland, Brown Thomas, the lower end of William Street, Cruises Street. Each and every one of these was a disaster. And, for me, Arthur's Quay was the worst. Now, all that remains of the warren of the narrow medieval pattern georgian streets around Denmark Street and Ellen Street is a portion of the original Ellen Street which still contains antique shops and the like. And they are now suggesting that it is necessary to pull down this charming street in order to build another Arthur's Quay? Will they ever learn? Why are the city council, ignorant moronic bumpkins all of them, allowed to make decisions on things like this? They have proven themselves incapable of it in the past. I would suggest that there would not be a flight from the city centre to suburban shopping centres if we had a beautiful historic core which is a pleasure to stroll around, instead of a dirty, intimidating 20th century wasteland. So I don't think the county council are entirely to blame for the city's problems.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby jpsartre » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:18 pm

The worst 3 recent buildings in Limerick in my opinion are ( no particular order ) Cornmarket development (i.e.- Smyths , the Car Park , whole block etc..) Riverpoint and The Clarion


The Cornmarket is among the worst developments not just because it is an over-massed multistory carpark in the very heart of the old city but also because some very fine (neglected) buildings were razed to the ground in order to make way for the development. The Clarion on the other hand does not exist at the expense some other worthy part of Limerick's built heritage. I know the apartment blocks adjacent to it were built on sites cleared of 18th C granaries but not the Clarion to the best of my knowledge. Its also a very elegant building as far as high rises go imo. I believe it will stand the test of time unlike Riverpoint which has no charm at all and will date very quickly. I see no harm in high rises on the riverfront per se just not anywhere near whats left of the historical district.

As for the boat club I recall reading in one of the local rags that Councillor Leddin and the developers were hopeful of a favorable response on their delisting app. given the slowdown in the economy etc. I don't believe they've had the go ahead yet. Fordmount (developers?) got their own guy in to pronounce on it's architectural merits, and whether it ought to be listed. Surprisingly he said he did'nt think so, citing the Belfast roof as the only thing remotely interesting about either building. His reasoning being that all the changes made to the interiors of the buildings offset any heritage value they may otherwise have had. Horlicks of course. See this short piece recently broadcast on BBC London News http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7796040.stm

Lower William street contender
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby justnotbothered » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:17 am

jpsartre wrote:T

As for the boat club I recall reading in one of the local rags that Councillor Leddin and the developers were hopeful of a favorable response on their delisting app. given the slowdown in the economy etc. I don't believe they've had the go ahead yet. Fordmount (developers?) got their own guy in to pronounce on it's architectural merits, and whether it ought to be listed. Surprisingly he said he did'nt think so, citing the Belfast roof as the only thing remotely interesting about either building. His reasoning being that all the changes made to the interiors of the buildings offset any heritage value they may otherwise have had. Horlicks of course.


There are two councillor Leddin's on Limerick City Council

Cllr. Joe Leddin (Labour) is a member of Limerick Boat Club and is in favour of the development.

Cllr. Kathleen Leddin (Independent) is against the development.

I'm afraid the wind is blowing with Joe Leddin at the minute, Fine Gael and Labour are going to vote in favour of the development, which will, imo, destroy the city centre. We'll spend the next 20 years trying to get rid of it.

It's not so much the loss of Boat Club buildings, but the damage the development will do to the entire waterfront. Still, if Limerick City Council have shown anything in the last century or so, it's that they are determined to make Limerick as ugly as possible. Harvey's Quay, the Sarsfield Hotel, Dunnes Stores, Todds, AIB, BOI, Arthur's Quay, Mungret St, Cornmarket, the list is long and depressing.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:54 pm

I’ve been perplexed by that building on William Street for a long time, its quite a specimen in fairness!

A look at some aerial images of the building shows that it is in fact just a 2 storey structure with the remainder of the “façade” consisting of some pre cast concrete panels!

The attached image below from the mid 1960s shows the original building in the ownership of Todd’s. Photographs from the early 1970s also show the building still intact. I’ve no idea what happened after this, but given the fate suffered by so many buildings in Limerick during this period, nothing should come as a surprise!

Unfortunately all you have to do is take a look at the opera centre debacle and you’ll realise that we haven’t learned as much as we should have from the dark days of the 60s and 70s!:(
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Fairy » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:57 pm

shanekeane wrote:Well I definitely agree that the 21st century architecture is undistinguished, not least the stumpy high rise buildings. The whole riverside is, in fact, an abject failure. But personally I feel that everything that went on in the city centre in the 20th century made a beautiful city ugly: Arthur's Quay, Penneys, Roches, Liddy Street, Dunnes Stores, AIB bank, Bank of Ireland, Brown Thomas, the lower end of William Street, Cruises Street. Each and every one of these was a disaster. And, for me, Arthur's Quay was the worst. Now, all that remains of the warren of the narrow medieval pattern georgian streets around Denmark Street and Ellen Street is a portion of the original Ellen Street which still contains antique shops and the like. And they are now suggesting that it is necessary to pull down this charming street in order to build another Arthur's Quay? Will they ever learn? Why are the city council, ignorant moronic bumpkins all of them, allowed to make decisions on things like this? They have proven themselves incapable of it in the past. I would suggest that there would not be a flight from the city centre to suburban shopping centres if we had a beautiful historic core which is a pleasure to stroll around, instead of a dirty, intimidating 20th century wasteland. So I don't think the county council are entirely to blame for the city's problems.

Your not suggesting that the whole of Denmark St and Ellen is going to have to go!!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby shanekeane » Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:10 am

I'm sorry to break this to you, but the old Denmark street is already gone. There are about five georgian buildings on it, as the rest had to be removed for the infinitely more aesthetically pleasing car parks etc.

As I understand it, the modified plan for the Opera Centre will involve destroying one entire side of the street and replacing it, presumably, with department store windows. This will ruin the street's portential, as it will have nothing but a wall running up one entire side, instead of the various individual shops that are there. Just as Arthur's Quay deadened half of Patrick Street, the Opera Centre will deaden the other half, and now it will deaden Ellen Street too. It's just a completely atrocious plan.
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Limerick Leader article, update on status of Opera Centre

Postby bonzer1again » Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:16 pm

This is the Limerick Leaders front page article regarding the Opera centre....maybe we'll find out if it gets the go ahead by the end of February.....time will tell.

Developer says Limerick's Opera Centre will go ahead


Opera Centre: decision due in February

By Anne Sheridan
NO CONTRACTS have been signed with any retailer to occupy the €350million Opera Centre, but the developers are optimistic the 40 units will be filled if planning permission is granted by An Bord Pleanala in February.
A spokesperson for Regeneration Developments, the developers of the retail centre, said it is taking longer than they expected to let units given the current economic climate.

"All the retailers are taking more time, given that their business may be down between 30 and 40 per cent. Negotiations are taking longer to conclude but this is prime retail space in the city," said a spokesperson.

The city centre is crying out for a major shopping mall to counteract the business being lost to the shopping centres on the outskirts of the city.

The developers are in negotiations with two major retailers to occupy the two anchor stores, one of which is expected to be sought by Marks & Spencer. However, as the British chain are contracted to the Crescent Shopping Centre and are keen to open two stores in Limerick, the type of unit they may open in the Opera Centre will be dependent on whether that application is also granted planning by An Bord Pleanala.

Marks & Spencer had intended to open a 10,000 square metre store in the Crescent Shopping Centre, but the plans were turned down by Limerick County Council.

The national planning authority are due to come to a decision on the expansion of the Crescent Shopping Centre in January and on the revised plans for the Opera Centre in February. However, sources close to the development say they expect a delay of at least five weeks.

Pat Kearney of Rooney Auctioneers said a number of local businesses have also applied to be part of the Opera Centre, the largest retail centre in the Mid-West, when it is expected to open in 2011.
...
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Fairy » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:41 pm

Fairy wrote:Sorry, can't remember what paper I read it on, but I did read it. It was certainly a local paper stated between 12th and 14th Dec. It was a by-line by some Councillor (maybe Gilligan) sorry if I'm incorrect. It was certainly not headline media, but thrown in as a 'matter of fact' when reporting on the Regeneration Project. Still searching for the exact source. Will get back to you.


So I was not seeing things! there it is again, pg. 14 Limerick Leader, 3rd Jan. "Jim Barrett, a former arhitect with Limerick City and Dublin City councils, said he was assured the the 40,000 sq mtr retail Unit will still be viable when construction BEGINS IN 2011!!!!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby gunter » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:13 pm

jpsartre wrote:Of the other site on Nicholas street I only know what you've already made ref. to viz. the discovery of a mediaeval fireplace held up the project. (the cafe thing is interesting. In 1785 a 'cafe' named the Merchant's Coffee House was opened next door to the Exchange on Nicholas street according to Georgian Limerick Vol II. Just a thought.)

. . . . I believe the future of this city lies in preserving the little we've got left. The old neglected laneways and bow-ways in Limerick . . . . .


I hope ye don't mind an outsider getting involved, but since I spent the New Year in Limerick, I'm going to be like a kid with a new toy for the next few weeks.

Image Image

That scrolled fireplace is a beauty, but it seems to be just the tip of the iceberg as far as surviving historic fabric on Nicholas Street / Mary Street is concerned. The development of the gallery/coffee shop and offices at 36 - 39 Nicholas Street appears to have been given permission on 14 Dec, but I can't get any hard information from the Planning Office website, or the architects (Healy & Partners) website.

I don't know what other people think, but to me there looks to be huge potential in the surviving fabric of Nicholas St. / Mary St. that just needs someone in the City Council to take it by the throat and guide the much needed regeneration towards the kind of contemporary re-expression of the scale and importance of this original medieval Main Street that could bring this great street back from the brink of misery.

Almost every surviving building on the street exhibits some vestige or other of a previous, and much higher status, manifestation. There are finely cut stone dressings behind half the ground floor shopfronts/roller shutters and evidence of early 18th century red brickwork re-facings to numerous (apparently truncated) upper floors. On one of the derelict sites on Mary Street, you can see the broken remains of a barrel vaulted basement peeping through the rubble.

Image
Nicholas Street from the direction of the castle.

There's a big hoarding on a nearby derelict site heralding your entry into Limerick's 'Medieval Quarter' ! I suppose that's the first step.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:39 pm

CologneMike wrote:
This new sub-forum for Limerick looks good as an alternative to our mega thread. Up till now this mega thread has served us well to have all the on going developments over the last three years in a central thread, otherwise a handful of smaller Limerick themed threads would have either gotten lost or would have been duplicated under the 4.000 national threads.

Personally, I would have preferred a larger “regional sub-forum” for our part of the woods like for example “Shannonside” to cover Clare, North Tipperary, Limerick and North Kerry as there is a lot of interaction between builders, developers, architects or areas in transport, health, work, tourism, retailing etc, etc based here within this region.

I think most people from Loop Head to Lough Derg have an interest in issues like for example

  • Proposed Ballylongford LNG Gas Terminal (Kerry)
  • Shannon Airport (Clare)
  • Nenagh-Limerick-Ennis Commuter Trains (Tipperary - Limerick - Clare)
  • Limerick city’s proposed contentious boundary extension (Co. Clare / Co. Limerick)
  • Recent flash floods in Newcastle-West (Limerick)


Secondly, would it not now be logical to split up some of this thread into designated threads or just start new ones?

  • Limerick ~ Georgian Buildings
  • Limerick ~ Docklands
  • Shannon Estuary
  • Regeneration ~ Northside ~ Southside
  • Kings Island
  • (N7, N18, N20 / N21, N24, N69) Road Transport
  • Opera Shopping Centre
  • Remodelling City Centre

Any suggestions?


Tuborg wrote:
I would definitely be in favour of splitting this thread up a bit, 86 pages and over 2,100 posts is a fairly hefty amount of material to try and sift through and in fairness it's getting pretty difficult to search for specific topics now aswell!

I think certain topics are probably deserving of their own dedicated threads! Id go for something along the lines of what CologneMike said;

  • City centre developments
  • The Opera centre
  • Docklands redevelopment
  • Limerick transport
  • Georgian core
  • Medieval quarter
  • The regeneration projects


Back in September Paul Clerkin introduced sub-forums for the Ireland forum under which certain topics for Limerick, like for example “The Opera Centre”, “Transport” etc, etc, could be better followed in their own dedicated threads, as they do tend to get lost within our mega thread.

What do you think?
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:47 pm

Belltable Arts Centre, O Connell Street


08486

Permission for alterations to a Protected Structure consisting of:

(a) removal of existing asbestos cement roof above existing theatre & ancillary spaces: extension of enclosing walls upwards: construction of a new roof of amended profile at higher level: (b) strip out of existing Theatre including removal of stage, seating, raked floor, etc and installation of new theatre interior: (c) Renovation to Front of House, Gallery Cafe/Bar areas: (d) formation of enlarged ope between Georgian Building to front of site and Theatre Building to the rear; construction of small 'atrium' type space containing a new staircase and linking the rear of the Georgian Building with the renovated Theatre to the rear: (e) overall net increase in floor area of 68.6sqm inclusive of new enclosed plant room of 42.6 sqm at 2nd floor level to the rear.

69 O' Connell Street
Limerick



I believe all events are being held in the Red Cross Hall (behind Cecil Street) while the renovations are taking place.

I hope the planners insist on the removal of those plastic windows as well. The Belltable really should have known better in the first place!:rolleyes:
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Dreamstate » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:47 pm

The Belltable exist on the Ground and Lower Ground only so I dont balme them for the Credit Unions faux pas....
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Dreamstate » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:57 pm

on a separate but large issue ....I think we should all take account of this quotation from Thomas Fisher ' Tools for Survival'

'Adam Smith described.....the paradox of value as :

‘ The things which have the
greatest value in use have frequently little or no value in exchange; and, on
the contrary, those which have the greatest value in exchange have frequently
little or no value in use. Nothing is more useful than water, but it will purchase
scarce anything; scarce anything can be had in exchange for it. A diamond,
on the contrary, has scarce any value in use, but a very great quantity of other
goods may frequently be had in exchange for it ’

I would ask the Planners in Limerick City Council ...Mr.Tobin , Mr.Reeves , Mrs.Campbell to stop the outward flood of our 'city's water' in seek of 'diamonds'
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:27 am

Decision on Limerick's Milk Market put back

Image

By Anne Sheridan

A DECISION on the proposed multi-million redevelopment of the Milk Market has been postponed for another four to six weeks by An Bord Pleanala.
The national planning authority were due to come to a decision on the development by January 12th, but said the inspector's report of the site, taking into account the appeals made by both sides, has yet to be compiled.

This is the second time An Bord Pleanala have delayed making a decision on the case due to the volume of appeals before the board.

A decision was due on November 13 last year, but Market Trustees chairman David O'Mahony said at that stage he was optimistic that the plans will be viewed favourably and despite the current economic crisis that funding will still be made available for the development.

Planning permission was granted by Limerick City Council last June for the redevelopment of the Milk Market - a protected structure- which could see the market open six days a week, include a 120-seat restaurant and the market itself would also be covered with a weatherproofed tensile.

However, a petition was signed by over 100 people to maintain the Milk Market as an open-air market and save it from "becoming a shopping mall."

The Thomond Archaeological and Historical Society and one of the traders, Marie Hussey who operates the Green Acres Cheese Shop, in the Milk Market have made submissions to An Bord Pleanala regarding the development.

Ms Hussey has stated that the application "will have major implications for the quality of the market environment and the economic viability of current traders." Having traded in Limerick for 25 years, she believes 70 per cent of her fellow traders are also concerned about the proposed changes to the market.

However, Mr O'Mahony said the market trustees have submitted a very substantial report to An Bord Pleanala, rebutting much of the content of the objectors.

He said they have had ongoing discussions with stall holders, and have been "heartened" by the feedback they've received.

Mr O'Mahony added that a few months delay could be quite prudent in light of the building environment and economic slowdown.

"Once a decision comes back we should be ready to roll within three months," he said.

Limerick Leader
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:15 pm

Last-gasp bid on Limerick Boat Club plan (Limerick Leader) 21 January 2009

By Anne Sheridan

THE fate of the €20 million redevelopment of Limerick Boat Club will be decided next Monday.

The president of Limerick Boat Club, Dermot Moloney, is calling on city councillors to support the plans, which he said would be "an asset to the city and a further step in the regeneration of the riverside city."

The plans are before the Council for approval at next Monday's meeting and needs a two-thirds majority from councillors to be passed. If approved, the new building could create up to 200 full-time jobs.

But Michael Daly of Fordmount Developments, the joint applicants of the project, said he was disappointed that the amount of capital the company have invested in the city "didn't seem to cut any ice" with Mayor of Limerick Cllr John Gilligan, whom he met last Thursday.

"Everyone I've spoken to said it's a fantastic project, but I had hoped to get a better hearing from the mayor. I had hoped that what we're spending in the city as a small company, and with the plans we have for the future, that it would have counted for more," said Mr Daly.

Fordmount Developments were behind the construction of Riverpoint – Limerick's tallest building – as well as the City Central development on Bedford Row, the Marriott on Henry Street, and a plan to open a cinema complex on Bedford Row pending agreement with existing tenants.

Mr Daly said he is trying to remain optimistic about the outcome of the meeting, but if it is refused he believes there will be little scope to tweak the design for a third time.

To receive the green light, a two-thirds majority of the 17 city councillors will have to vote in favour of delisting the building and will also have to vote on a material contravention to rezone the site. But councillors have suggested that some political parties may be deciding to vote en bloc.

Asked whether he is in favour of the plans, Fianna Fail Cllr John Cronin said "we haven't decided how we're going to vote yet" and confirmed that the party will be voting together on this issue.

Mayor Gilligan had previously told this newspaper he would not be "blackmailed" into voting in favour of the plans, which members say could be forced to close if the plans are not given the go-ahead. "Hard decisions have to be made when you're planning a city and my answer will be 'no'," said Mayor Gilligan.

Councillors who have voiced their opposition to the development include Independent Cllr Katheen Leddin, and those who have backed the development are Labour Cllr Joe Leddin (a member of Limerick Boat Club), Labour's Gerry McLoughlin and Fine Gael councillors Jim Long and Kevin Kiely.

Mr Moloney has now urged City Hall to look at the employment that will be created during the construction phase of the proposed new club, which would also serve a civic purpose.

The development would take 18 months to build, with over 150 employed during the construction phase and 200 people working there following its construction in offices, a restaurant and cafe/bar.

Mr Moloney said the current building can no longer function adequately for the demand of a modern sporting club, and believes there is no material justification why the building should not be delisted.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby shanekeane » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:45 pm

I had a dream last night. What this site requires is a large, slim conical building with a spherical observation deck and restaurant affixed to the top.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:54 pm

34-41 Catherine Street ~ Catherine Street Courtyard

Construct six floors of commercial accommodation consisting of; offices, retail at street level, 3 levels of basement car parking 110 car parking spaces and associated site works in connection with the proposed development.

This includes the demolition of numbers 34,35,36,37,38,39,40 & 41 Catherine Street along with the buildings to the rear of these properties including the former Limerick Leader facilities.

The facades of 35, 36 & 37 (35 & 37 are proposed protected structures) will be retained and restored to their original state.

Architects: Murray O'Laoire Architects

Application Status: Appealed


The first image below is somewhat misleading as they are two building sections involved here i.e. the four-storey street façade and the six-storey rear courtyard. In other words if one was standing from the steps of the Health Board you should not be in a position of seeing the taller rear building.

Underground parking looks good with a separate entrance (Mallow Street?) and exit (Glentworth Street) from it.

Obviously its success depends on the quality of the glass materials used and the quality of the craftsmanship involved to restore nos. 35, 36 & 37. If they could lean on Günter’s top-notch example from Nürnberg i.e. mixing contemporary with older building stock. It would be the right impulse to shake up the landlords of some of Limerick’s Georgian decaying bed-sits.

What’s the storey with the appeal?
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:02 pm

CologneMike wrote:Last-gasp bid on Limerick Boat Club plan (Limerick Leader) 21 January 2009

But Michael Daly of Fordmount Developments, the joint applicants of the project, said he was disappointed that the amount of capital the company have invested in the city "didn't seem to cut any ice" with Mayor of Limerick Cllr John Gilligan, whom he met last Thursday.

"Everyone I've spoken to said it's a fantastic project, but I had hoped to get a better hearing from the mayor. I had hoped that what we're spending in the city as a small company, and with the plans we have for the future, that it would have counted for more," said Mr Daly.



Thats a great line!

So let me get this straight. The fact that Mr Daly has already invested in the city gives him the right to deface the riverfront and ruin the setting of Sarsfield Bridge just so he can rake in some more cash!:mad:

Unbelievable stuff altogether!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:24 pm

CologneMike wrote:
34-41 Catherine Street ~ Catherine Street Courtyard

What’s the storey with the appeal?


It seems the appellant owns one of the adjacent properties on Mallow Street and is concerned about the impact of the development on their business.

The Department of Environment & Heritage have also expressed concerns about the demolition with facade retention of the 3 terraced houses on Catherine Street.

The appeal is supposed to be decided by the 19th of March but will probably be put back a few weeks!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:17 am

THE fate of the €20 million redevelopment of Limerick Boat Club will be decided next Monday.

But Michael Daly of Fordmount Developments, the joint applicants of the project, said he was disappointed that the amount of capital the company have invested in the city "didn't seem to cut any ice" with Mayor of Limerick Cllr John Gilligan, whom he met last Thursday.

"Everyone I've spoken to said it's a fantastic project, but I had hoped to get a better hearing from the mayor. I had hoped that what we're spending in the city as a small company, and with the plans we have for the future, that it would have counted for more," said Mr Daly.

Mayor Gilligan had previously told this newspaper he would not be "blackmailed" :confused: into voting in favour of the plans, which members say could be forced to close if the plans are not given the go-ahead. "Hard decisions have to be made when you're planning a city and my answer will be 'no'," said Mayor Gilligan.


Tuborg to be fair (irrespective of its merits, good, bad or indifferent), the developer made a very direct point on Mayor Gilligan’s doorstep, as Gilligan playing to the gallery last year was first to the win the race to blast the proposal outright without leaving the door open for the developer to have a second opportunity to modify it.

Strangely enough the same Gilligan has no heritage whims about Patrick Street / Ellen Street or the proposed pvc tinsel roof to cover the Milk Market and he supports them both outright. His beggar bowl talk is all about the government financing St Mary’s Park regeneration, the government setting up a task force to tackle the mega fall-out from Dell or the government solving our serious crime issues.

But god forbid when a local takes risks by building quality commercial buildings in his home town and then received the p*ss-off treatment from the city’s first citizen. That sucks.

This boat club proposal on the pier has the potential to destroy the cut-stone bridge as it is a very difficult site to develop. Having said that I have warmed to the modern design of the “Poor Mans Kilkee” side, that depicts oars and sails. If it goes ahead, then again the materials used will determine its success or not.

See also this.

Again to be fair, Daly said he would walk away from the proposal if it was voted against and he never threaten to spend his capital elsewhere as Chieftain Construction said if they didn’t get their own way in Coonagh.

If the original piers (floating docks) where built a bit wider then it would have been very likely that five-six storey stone warehouses would have been built on them. Thus giving the argument for or against height today, another perspective.
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CologneMike
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:11 am

Fair enough but I think you have to judge each development separately. Riverpoint and the city central project have by and large been positive developments but there is a lot more at stake here with the plans for the boat club.

Its certainly not the worst proposal in the world but I just dont think its right for this extremely sensitive location. The developers can talk it up all they like but I believe it would totally overshadow and dominate Sarsfield Bridge and thats just not acceptable in my book!

Just on that picture you posted, its a pity those stone warehouses didnt survive. They could have made nice loft style apartments with restaurants/bars facing onto the Shannon.

They would've added a bit of character to the quays anyway compared to the nasty buildings on the site at the moment!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby foinse » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:57 am

Bank of Ireland O'connell street is finally getting it's facelift. I was speaking to the foreman putting up the scaffolding yesterday, he told me that the money has been allocated for it for years but they never did anything about it.....also it means that they're not going to run out of cash half way through
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