well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby jimg » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:42 pm

Where on the street were these two single story buildings? What were they used for?
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Rhino » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:27 pm

They were located on the left hand side of O'Connell Street (if driving) just before the traffic lights at Mallow Street. One was a small newsagents.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:43 am

http://www.archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?attachmentid=808

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/riverpoint.jpg



[align=center]<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/riverpoint.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">[/align]
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:58 am

[align=center]center>
<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/barringtonhse.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">[/align][/align][size=200]


As far as i'm awar the building pic above is adjacent to the planning application below,

Alterations to approved development (planning permissions P02/300 & P03/467) consisting of change of use of 17 no. apartments on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th floors and Ground Floor Retail Unit amounting to 1,322 sq.m to a Consultants Clinic associated with Barringtons Hospital, addition of en-suite shower room to apartment no.s 12, 19 & 24 on 2nd, 3rd, 4th floors respectively (5.2 sq.m each), addition of chimneys to North wing of building, enlargement of first floor cafe by 6.7 sq.m, addition of 5.7 sq.m to penthouse apartment no. 25 on 5th floor, and minor alterations to building footprint, elevations to Mary Street and Little Fish Lane resulting from compliance with condition 14 of planning permission P02/300 in regard to archaeology. Mary St., Sir Harrys Mall
Northern Inner Relief Rd.
between Fish L
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:00 am

<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/newroadthomandgate.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">



Whats the verdict on this building??
Ithink it fits in well with the old and new
just adjacent to thomond bridge,
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby ash1 » Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:47 pm

Development - a few hometruths - and not an attempt at 'limerick bashing' - i'm sure it's typical of lack of social orientated building and planning in ireland.

A cautionary tale - the splurge of apartment buildings in Limerick city centre has led to a fall in rental income and a difficulty in actually tenanting properties. So many of the buildings which were originally intended as 'luxury ' apartments have become in effect modern 'slums' populated by transient populations of migrant workers, students and those in receipt of rent allowances. Absentee landlords quick to cash in on a section -50 buck have abandoned their apts to the management agents and as a result these 'new' buildings are becoming decrepid and unkempt, abandoned
A quick stroll around steamboat quay or mount kenneth will confirm same. This contributes to the 'corridor of poverty' which runs right through the city centre.Suburbs now bulge with wealthy thirtysomethings and their lodgers, fearful to live in the city in case their 05 Landrovers will get scratched by the hoody wearing wolverines who roam at 1am, looking for a wingmirror to kick off.

Residential displacement continues as whole streets of houses once populated by families then purchased for student rental are coming onsale (Wolfe Tone Street / St Josephs Street) - while the shops once supported by settled residential communities are boarded up and abandoned (Parnell St).

those residences that are not for sale are being filled with the antisocial detrius of housing estates, given their marching orders by the city council and then a tenancy by the health board - god help us!

It's not enough to create buildings which are easy on the eye - cities need to be a place where people want to live and bring up their families - why not abandon stamp duty for owner occupiers on city dwellings designated for regeneration and get people back into the city 7 days a week. not just weekends? it is the drip drip spend which keeps the corner shop and city centre pub open, locals who fill the coffers - and the church pews

The city councillors need to get the lead out, as the rot has well and truly set in. We need some concrete (oh the irony) initiatives to get people living in the city again - not some pathetic 'spring fest' or similar damp squib desperate efforts by the co-ordination office. and for god sake we should build on what we have, and not rip it down and replace it with another production line / bastard bauhaus/cladded shiny nightmare.

a hike in interest rates or a fall in numbers of house purchases - one notch tightened in the consumer belts and all of these retail outlets will be fighting for the same buck or packing up and heading to poland.


Ash1 - city resident

ps the barrington street property mentioned in an earlier thread still does not have a single tenant , 6 months after delivery. there are huge swathes of office space in the city centre for sales or lease and the city council continues to strangle businesses. it's all a bit 'emperor's new clothes'
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby PVC King » Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:53 pm

So whats the solution?
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby backspace » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:29 pm

dave123 wrote:[align=center]center>
<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/barringtonhse.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">[/align][/align][size=200]


As far as i'm awar the building pic above is adjacent to the planning application below,

Alterations to approved development (planning permissions P02/300 & P03/467) consisting of change of use of 17 no. apartments on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th floors and Ground Floor Retail Unit amounting to 1,322 sq.m to a Consultants Clinic associated with Barringtons Hospital, addition of en-suite shower room to apartment no.s 12, 19 & 24 on 2nd, 3rd, 4th floors respectively (5.2 sq.m each), addition of chimneys to North wing of building, enlargement of first floor cafe by 6.7 sq.m, addition of 5.7 sq.m to penthouse apartment no. 25 on 5th floor, and minor alterations to building footprint, elevations to Mary Street and Little Fish Lane resulting from compliance with condition 14 of planning permission P02/300 in regard to archaeology. Mary St., Sir Harrys Mall
Northern Inner Relief Rd.
between Fish L



The building that PP refers to is actually under construction the far side of Baals bridge at the moment. But I think that the one in the photo is also going to be part of Barringtons at some stage
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby ShaneP » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:31 pm

Fairly depressing description there, Ash1, but sadly I have to agree with you. Tim O'Malley wrote an interesting article in "Business Limerick" magazine last month ( will try and get it online soon) expressing similar views, which was good to see, as he's probably in a better position than most to take action on the issues. As for addressing the problems/ opportunities facing Limerick at the moment, where do you begin? - Has anyone read "The Death and Life of Great American Cities?" It's a fantastic book, more or less provides step by step instructions on how to create a sustainable city centre, however I'll have to leave it at that for now - head is racing with too many thoughts on this thread so will get back to you when i manage to have a few more coherent thoughts on the subject.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby gregos » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:12 pm

Hi Ash1. Well said.

The shape of Limerick has been determined not by planners, not by architects, not by engineers and not by elected representatives. The current shape of Limerick has been, and continues to be, dictated by social workers. Good streets and solid neighbourhoods all over the city are being undermined by placing delinquent families in their midst without assessing the impact this policy has on the people who work and live there. This is because those who implement the policy are health-board administrators who have no ability to carry out such an assessment and have no qualificatioons. This is where power rests, and this is why people are leaving for the suburbs. Nothing will change until some neighbourhood group take a constitutional action to stop it. I personally know two people who cannot sell their homes because of the kind of people who have been placed next door to them, and at the same time can no longer afford to stay because of the threat to their children. This is a disgrace.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby ash1 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:20 pm

thanks for your posts - i sometimes think lunatics have taken over the asylum down here.
the problem with community action is that you need the community, and they have become so fragmented. And who do you take to task? within a couple of hundred yards of my parents home (off gracious georgian o'connell ave) there is a 'wet hostel', a resettlement unit for delinquent teenage travellers, a halfway house for young offenders (original planning permission granted for a 'child development clinic' ) and a further adult offenders hostel - one of whose occupants was recently sentenced for the murder of a barman in '04. all concentrated in the space of 15 or so houses.

All of these are operated by many different 'not for profit' organistations - who are then able to pick up properties cheap as chips as neighbouring residents leave in droves. None of these projects have live in wardens. The 'rent allowance' payments alone have allowed one 'saintly' charity to build up an impressive multimillion property portfolio in dooradoyle and raheen. Urban myth or truth but there are reports that they have even gone door to door in some estates asking if their owners are interested in selling! you can imagine the blind panic that sets in.

It's this kind of systematic undermining of social networks which is responsible for the ghetto which is springing behind the facade of all this new building. High density apartment blocks with a high churn of occupants with no emotional ties or financial investment to an area do not communities make. There is a real danger of creating new 'no go' areas in the city centre, where only the foolish or insane will choose to live from choice, and others only from necessity.

i am begining to think that 'impact statements' should be part of the planning process - i.e. what benefits will this development bring to the area - or that new build permission will only be granted for owner occupiers ,with a codicil that they cannot sell for a stated period of time - or 'peppercorn' type mixed developments of single / family housing - to create stability.

otherwise it is a depressing dangerous morass of undesirables and the few hardcore elderly who are hanging on by their fingertips. it's is mess.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby ShaneP » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:42 pm

Sounds like a fairly scary scenario. As a student exiled to Dublin for the last few years - have to say I didnt realise that the negative side-effects of poor planning in the city centre would come about so fast, although it's easy to see how. The fact is, that the health board etc. has to apply to the city council for planning permission for any of these facilities, be they new buildings or renovations etc. Unfortunately wet hostels etc are only one symptom of a much broader problem that exists in Limerick and elsewhere -that of ghettos. The whole city has, since Georgian times become compartmentalised into vast zones of single use - zones for students, industry, shopping, poor people, rich people, hospitals etc, all facilitated by the policies or lack of them of our government and its agents in city hall. This sort of planning policy flies in the face of all that is required to bring about the conditions for a sustainable city environment - diversity.

However on the up side, just as it only takes a few people to destroy a neighbourhood, so too a small number of people can start the process of reviving depressed areas. Had the oppoprtuntiy of living in Brooklyn a few years ago - ended up in what can only be described as a bit of a dodgy neighbourhood - our house was a recently converted mafia social club, nuclear waste was being stored less than a mile away and was offered drugs six times on the two block walk home from the subway station, the day i moved in. In the two years I stayed there - the transformation was staggering. Seems some civic minded locals decided to form a residents committee to pressure the borough council, the police, schools board,developers etc into providing better services and facilities in the area. Local parks were improved, the streets kept clean, zero tolerane policing enforced and as far as i know property taxes and rates were changed so that ,rather than all the users in one area paying the same rate - each property was assesed on its own merits so that a diverse gruop of people and businesses could afford to exist in the same area. The situation is now such, that i'd highly reccommend any visitor to New York to hop on the L train and take a trip to Williamsburg.

As for how that situation relates to Limerick - look at the People's park since the playground was installed a couple of years ago, there seems to always be people around it, and i certainly don't perceive it as the no go area it once was. On a broader level, I think there are plenty of people who share the the same concerns as expreesed on this forum. If enough people can organise themselves and make their concerns known to politicians,( who will be relying on your vote to hold onto their well paid jobs in a year or two) as well as presenting their own ideas and solutions to the problems facing us - it wouldnt take long for a more desirable vision of Limerick to emerge. Will have to end it for now - but i'm sure ther'll be plenty more to follow.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby gregos » Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:14 pm

I would agree with you about most of what you said, but I have to point out that the health board and the various charities don't need permission from anybody to place individual families in houses. A single criminal family can utterly destroy a neighbourhood, and that is what these bodies are doing right now: destroying established communities. The health boards have never held themselves accountable, and the charities even less so. Nothing will change without their being forced to take account of the consequences.

In the new orthodoxy, you can't criticise anyone without being shouted down. Nobody is responsible for their own behaviour, or that of their children. If your new neighbour brings a string of horses to graze the green areas of your neighbourhood, that's his right. He has a tradition and a culture that you must respect. If his kids kick the ball into your garden to see if your back door is locked, you mustn't say so, because that would be discrimination. The impact on you is not relevant, because he is disadvantaged and you are not. You and your spouse might work double shifts to pay the mortgage, and limit your family size so that you can educate them well. Another guy might not be able to find suitable work in this economy of full employment, might have twelve kids he can't feed and won't control. Who's going to get the breaks - you or him? I'll give you one guess.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:04 am

Well, :eek:
its good to see both sides of the good and bad exent of developments in Limerick, which is still progress. All though lets hope something can be done to improve and change it, As Limerick has its fair share of problems like any city.
On the plus side there, has been some very new and bold architectural developments in the city. The good thing is ,people are aware of the downsides as stated in the discussions above, which to give a real perspective on what is actually happening in the city.
But we need to keep a positive outlook too.


I still think , despite the bashing , Limerickl city has become a more vibrant and safer city to live in , In my view.
I also think it has become a confident city , , like the Riverpoint, University of Limerick and European Riverside City initaitive etc..

anyway have some pics...
just to show that there are quite a few developments are by arcitects eg.http://www.eml.ie/main/2_commercial/

[align=center]
<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/380m_a.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:11 am

[align=center]
<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/maryi_02_100.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/GardHse1_255x159.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:20 am

limerick docks plans,

[align=center]<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/380m_b.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">[/align]
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:32 am

[align=center]<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/380m_c.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">[/align]


][align=center]
<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/380m_d.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:35 am

those pics are proposals for the docks
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:41 am

a pic of Mary immucalute College , a few more coming....
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:49 am

[align=center]<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/maryi_01_500.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/maryi_02_500.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/maryi_02_100.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">[/align]
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:56 am

Client: Steamboat Developments Ltd
Site Area: 0.74 hectare / 1.83 acres
No. of Units: 57 Apartments
37 Town Houses
11 Commercial Units
Floor Area: Apartments -
Town Houses -
Commercial - 1,524 sq.m.
3,794 sq.m.
1,524 sq.m.
Parking Area: 6,875 sq.m.
275 Car Parking Spaces
Density: 94 units on 1.83acres =
c 51 units per acre
Plot Ratio: c 12,200 sq.m. / 7,400 = 1.6
Contract Value: €8.2 million (approx)
Completed: 1997

info on steamboat quay.

Steamboat Quay is a mixed development of commercial and residential units located on the central south quay of Limerick, overlooking the River Shannon. It was the first element of an overall composition for the site, which, now complete, includes a 17 storey hotel tower with restaurant pavillion.

The composition for the river elevation relates to the quayside and River Shannon. A clear distinction is made between the glazed commercial ground

som pics on riverside,shannon street and facing onto shannon.

[align=center]<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/380p_g.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/harveysquay.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/steamboatquay.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/pic53_88x154.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/shannonstreet.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">[/align]
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:59 am

well thats all for now,

I'll try get some pictures on Lord Eward street Apartents, despite the contervertial plans for it near the people's park , it has turned out to be a fine new building.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby ShaneP » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:35 pm

Who's responsible for the Docks masterplan?
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:58 pm

i think Murrayolaoire architects,
there are loads of architects wanting to come up with winning design, most likely
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:39 pm

The bedford row redevelopment is well underway now.
Also Bedford row street has been pedrestrianised and the street is having a festival over the weekend!

There has been a lot of talk recently to punches cross development ??
or is there a number of buildings going up there ??
i heard a hotel and retail warehousing?


the new Ul bridge across the shannon.

[align=center]
<img src="http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/tommie1/375p.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
<br

also any news on the Ul school of arcitectre??
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