well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:07 pm

Limerick City,

Limerick is Ireland’s third city! It’s a beautiful city with the majestic river Shannon that flows through the old English town (king John castle) and beside the splendid Georgian town. It was the first ever grid planned town, designed by Newton Perry.

There is a wide range of architecture through the ages, from the Vikings to Normans to the prosperous medieval times, the Glorious Georgian of the 18th and 19th centuries
And finally the changes of today.

There is a lot of bad press about limerick been a rough and no go area. It’s as safe as any other city in Ireland if not safer! The city is really changing. Its becoming recognised a European Riverside city with its bold new designs and high-rise buildings at the limerick docklands, the new park canal project linking University of Limerick (one of the most successful modern Universities off today) with the city centre.
It’s the fastest growing commercial core after the Dublin area.

The regeneration of the city centre, becoming more pedestrian friendly with streets becoming pedsrianised and booming the mass tourism coming to see this diverse and changing city.
And this is going to even rocket further as new routes to Shannon airport.

Anybody that has not been in Limerick lately there is to high-rise building been built at spaights corner (river point) and is 15 storeys and (sty munchins) 12 storeys high, looks quite cool!!! Its opposite that clarion hotel and really and enhances the area.

Please keep new developments, architecture, news, views and your thoughts posted!!!!!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby jimg » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:45 pm

Limerick is great. The Georgian quarter is second only to Dublin's Georgian in Ireland and really deserves more attention. Unfortunately, the city's architectural fabric has been badly damaged over the last 50 or 60 years even more so than Dublin in my opinion. There's been tonnes of medieval stuff lost in Limerick during the period while I reckon there was little of that age in Dublin anyway. It's a great pity because Limerick was apparently the most impressive city in Ireland in the early 16th century because of the prosperity brought by trading. John's castle and St. Mary's are nice but have no context today. Even up to the 1940s and 1950s there were remains of the old walls visible all over Irishtown and Englishtown and a true mediaval character to those parts of town. The tiny sections of the old wall left today are a reminder of what's been lost; they're huge - about the height of a modern 3 story building. Even over the last 10 or 20 years they've altered what was left of the medieval street patterns of King's Island. Kings Island is now effectivly a large council housing estate with two medieval landmarks.

I also like the new taller developments along the docks. The river is so wide here that the height of the buildings works very well although many of the buildings are pretty boring in other respects. From O'Callaghan's strand or coming into the city from the Ennis Rd, they provide a strong statement that the city begins at the water's edge; so it really feels like you are "entering" a city when you cross the bridges (from the north), instead of the the usual experience in Irish cities where there are long boring transitions between countryside, suburbia, older suburbia and the town centre.

I've heard conflicting opinions from visitors to Limerick. A number of people I know (non-Irish) raved about the city and found it to be very beautiful while most Irish people who visit come away with a negative impression. Perhaps this is because of it's reputation.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby modular man » Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:48 pm

I agree that limerick has some very high quality streetscapes, especially the Georgian areas however my impression (irish person, not from Limerick) is that it lacks any quality public spaces (the streetscapes aside). I never feel like there is a central point. Aurthers quay park is vastly underused addition which feels too tucked away from O' Connel street behind a Dunnes stores which has seen better days.
I think that a lot people from outside Limerick only know it as they used to have to pass through on the way to Clare or kerry and have the impression of a one street town. Limerick has a lot of potential and there has been enormous improvements over the past fifteen years. I hope this trend continues.
I also think that the by-pass from the Castletroy side is one of the most important projects for the city and years overdue. I presume it has opened as live abroad so have not visited in a couple of years. Has it made a big difference?
It would be good if This thread could be kept updated in the same fashion as the ‘look at the state of Cork’ thread.
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Postby dave123 » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:04 pm

A lot of people who pass through limerick dont see much of the historic city
because the english town and the historic charming Mary street beside king joh's castle is hidden from passers by
i would agree with O'Connells st just as a main street and the city is lacking public space or a "centre"

Iheard that there is major plans for a open area along bakers place near O'Connells street which is part of the city centre regeneration and pedstrianisation which is been held up until the shannon tunnel is built i think.
The plan is pedresrtrianising part of O'Connells st , baker place and catherdhal st and linking cruises street

i do think Oconnells street really needs a real facelift! let's hope it will comee soon!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:22 pm

to answer your question about the castletroy by pass
i think it has improved the traffic situation at that side of the city not only to the city but commuters and people who wish to travel onwards to kerry and beyond.
lots of warehousing and retail warehousing is either underconstruction or booming along it.
the downside is waiting for the shannon tunnel to link up with the bypass because there are still thousands of cars going through the city that wish to go to shannon and the rest of clare.So we will have to wait for a few more years.... hope that answers yours question .
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Rhino » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:59 pm

Don't forget about the People's Park off Pery Square at the top of the town!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Cute Panda » Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:49 pm

I have not been to Limerick for a while. Can somebody post links to photos of the city at it's best? Both new and old.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby JPD » Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:55 pm

dave123 wrote:Limerick needs to be seen and recogniesed as ireland's third city


Galway is Ireland's third City and largest sprawling retail warehousing park. Don't get me started on Limerick
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby jimg » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:25 pm

Galway has a smaller population than Limerick and is dwarved economically by Limerick. Limerick and Cork have "grand" centres; i.e. tallish building and wide "city" streets while Galway is a small country town now hidden by a sprawl of roundabouts, suburban housing estates and shopping centres.

Galway is a real disapointment. I used to love visiting it back when it had a sort of hayday in the late 80s/early 90s. For years, I'd recommend it to anyone visiting Ireland or contemplating a visit and used to spend time there myself at every opportunity. Slowly over the last 10 years I've started to realise that just like Limerick suffers somewhat unjustly from its bad reputation (another city I visit often), Galway has been benefitting from an unreasonably positive reputation for years. Besides the planning issues, it's turned into a town with serious anti-social problems because of its "Temple Bar" like atmosphere and little to recommend for it during the day besides a small area between Eyre Sq and Bridge St./Mill St. Admittedly, I'm probably overcompensating by being negative because of my earlier enthusiasm for the place. For me, Limerick is a far more interesting place than Galway.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby anto » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:28 am

Interesting thread. Limerick deserves to feature here more. Limerick has turned to face the shannon quite successfully over the last 15 years or so.

On the downside Georgian buildings badly disfigured by the pvc window plague. Traffic seems terrible. Hardly a bus lane or a cycle lane anywhere, even around the university!!

THe crime thing seems to have calmed down for the time being so that's one thing. Limerick's image problem is not a new thing but in some ways its lack of pretence and Blarney/Temple bar nonsence is quite refreshing. It's a real place!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Tue May 03, 2005 1:51 pm

Does anybody know is there anymore high rise buildings planned for the limerick docklands ???

just want give two facts that people m,ight not know about limerick city

limerick is the third wealtiest place in ireland after dublin nd kildare !!!!!!
its IS SAFER THAN Cork or DUBLIN!!!
CHEERIO!!!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby lexington » Tue May 03, 2005 2:05 pm

dave123 wrote:limerick is...
its IS SAFER THAN Cork or DUBLIN!!!
CHEERIO!!!


Em...statistically that's actually not true about Cork, but I totally agree that Limerick gets unfair treatment in the media and the like - and you're perfectly right about defending that.

Af for high-rise projects planned for Limerick, other than those already under construction, I'm only aware of 1 other project - but I'll get back to you on that when I know more about it.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby kefu » Tue May 03, 2005 3:18 pm

Couldn't agree more with the earlier points made about Galway? In ten year's time - it will be a model for how not to develop a city.
We all know Dublin is bad for planning but Galway is making the very same mistakes and magnifying them five-fold.
The new ring road is being built with out-of-town shopping centres as its first priority rather than funnelling traffic away from the city centre.
'Galway is Ireland's ... largest sprawling retail warehousing park' - a perfect description.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby backspace » Wed May 04, 2005 7:01 pm

limerick quays with riverpoint building (under construction)
i think that when the chunnel opens they ll do a version of o'connell st on o connell st, widen pavements etc etc.

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=39643&papass=&sort=1
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=39646&papass=&sort=1
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby d ryan » Thu May 05, 2005 1:49 pm

yeah, i also heard of rumours that a block on o connells street wher supermacs is situated is being knocked (apart from supermacs itself) for new develpments .
i think henry street is really looking cool ! if you think back 3 or four years ago the state it was in !
building is everywhere in the city at the moment!! good for limerick!!!

wish i had a intelligent computer that could load som pictures .........lol oh well
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby BTH » Thu May 05, 2005 2:01 pm

[quote="jimg"]Galway has a smaller population than Limerick and is dwarved economically by Limerick. Limerick and Cork have "grand" centres]


Not so sure about the supposed "anti social problems" you mention. As someone who lives and works in Galway city centre I can honestly say it's one of the safest feeling places I have ever been at any time of the day or night. Sure there are rowdies about and it gets as messy as anywhere else on St.Patricks Day. However the overriding feeling in Galway is relaxed and friendly and it is a place that benefits rather than suffers from its nightlife and the "party" atmosphere. Galway has many other faults of course, the vast majority to do with poor planning and traffic chaos. However it is still a city in transition with huge land-banks on the verge of opening up right in the city centre. Proposals are in action to move the bus depot and goods yards away from the area behind the Great Southern in Eyre Sq. opening up a swathe of development land from the square to Lough Atalia. The first moves are being made to remove harbour activity from the city centre docks to a newly constructed facility thus clearing the way for marina and dockland developments replacing the current ugly array of scrapheaps, fuel tanks and wasteland. The potential for creating a proper city centre for Galway is huge. It remains to be seen if that opportunity will be grasped or not...

As for Limerick, Its a place I just can't warm to. Ok, so it has more of a city feel than galway but my overriding impression is of wide open streets clogged with traffic and a general dullness about the place - it's a bit like an english provincial town in that respect and especially since the ill advised Cruises St. development - nice idea but so poorly executed in 80s english high st. style. Give me Galway's characterful, colourful winding streets any day. The riverside is developing in a haphazard way with clashing building styles all screaming for attention. The Clarion Hotel is a downright monstrosity - no Idea how that got away with something so bulky, stumpy and lacking in any sort of grace. Nightlife in Limerick is pretty awful and I always find an edgyness to the place - especially since a mate of mine got his nose broken in a random act of violence outside a bar in the city centre.

Anyway, sorry about the Limerick-Bashing!! I'm just overcompensating for the previous criticism of Galway ;)
They are both potentially great places that happen to have loads of various problems at the moment. For me, however, Galway wins out because it has a lot more energy and vibrancy as a place. Its diverse population (people from all over Ireland, Europe and beyond), great cultural life (just attended a great cuirt literature week and looking forward to the Arts Festival) and the leisurely, relaxed feel of the city centre (Limerick has plenty of ring-roads, roundabouts, shopping centres and suburban housing estates surrounding it as well!).

Maybe I should start a proper Galway info thread since I'm such a fan of it eh!!? ;)
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Lotts » Thu May 05, 2005 2:31 pm

Wonderful photo of the former Limerick Ryan Hotel (Ennis Road) in todays Irish Times - It was taken from a helicopter hired by local residents who wanted to see what was going on behind the HUGE green canvas fence that surrounds the site. The developers have been served with an enforcement order to reinstate a 7 story wing that they had been partially removed!
All this on a development that was opposed by EVERY councillor. The assumption appears to have been that once it's covered up by a big tent you can do what you want!

[The Times article does not mention however that the 7 story wing was truely hideous]
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby jimg » Thu May 05, 2005 8:29 pm

Hi BTH. We'll just have to agree to differ regarding Galway. Regarding my reference to anti-social problems, I guess feelings of personal safety are very subjective; all it takes is the witnessing one violent act to colour your perception of a place. Alternatively hearing anecdotes can create an impression of a place which will affect the way you react to people and occurances.

Galway has a tiny core around Shop St. which has a certain amount of charm because of the retention of medieval street patterns (like Temple Bar in Dublin). The rest is featureless and dull in my opinion and as someone else pointed out, the the way the planners Galway have allowed it to develop makes Dublin look like a model city. I'm glad to hear that they might be starting to correct the sprawl.

By the way I agree with you regarding the horrible Cruises St. but still there is far more interesting architecture in Limerick than in Galway.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby d ryan » Fri May 06, 2005 11:38 am

hi beth, im not going to defend or argue your point about galway but galways really does not feel like a city.
I think its silly to mention clogged up streets ??? what is your point ??? Nor do i see the point in bringing up nightlife ??? take a look at galway its full of roundabouts and the notorious headford road . u have retail parks in the city centre !!!! every town has its fair share of traffic probs, So there's no point argueing that.

my second point is what is wrong with wide open streets ? limerick has midieval street plan around king john castle and behind criuses street !!! hmmmm.
One major difference about limerick to some irish cities its a through town as its on the cork to sligo , dublin to kerry?clare routes which must go through the city so of course there is more traffic as it has to cross over the shannon, i hope that answers your questions.

once the tunnell is done it will take a lot of traffic out of limerick

on a positive note i do like shop street in Galway.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby BTH » Sun May 08, 2005 5:29 pm

My point is that the centre of Limerick is extremely unfriendly to pedestrians whereas Galway, through effective pedestrianisation, has managed to create a city centre which is completely free from through traffic. As a result it is a much more pleasant place to be. I'd be amazed if anyone disagreed. Granted the shannon tunnel will provide some relief for Limerick city centre but It will still have the wide-open, windswept aspect that it currently has. I know that limerick has small pockets of medieval character but they are very secondary to the dominant grid pattern.
I would contend that Galway's success as a place to be is actually due to it's compact and comfortable core. This small area encompasses everything from very high rates of residential occupancy right in the centre of the city, a huge variety of bars and nightlife, eating places, offices and public buildings. This adds to the sense of Galway as being a vibrant and exciting place to live and to be. Limerick simply does not have that benefit.

Yes, the Headford road is a disaster zone, but, like other areas of the city centre in Galway, plans are afoot to transform the area. A huge application has been lodged to transform the awful shopping centre, creating new external streets, a much expanded Dundrum-style shopping and entertainment centre and a gateway building at the ring-road side which will contain a new municipal gallery. From what I have seen it's not a bad scheme and will have the effect of properly extending the city centre out along the Headford road. It'll be a matter of time before similar developments are proposed for the retail park side of the road.
I have to laugh at those dismissing Galway as being "full of roundabouts". As I seem to recall Limerick has a fair amount of them as well.... As well as plenty of crappy retail parks. In fact didn't they just build the new county offices (fantastic building but bloody awful context) as an extention of the nearby retail park?

Anyway, I realize that all these arguments are pretty pointless! Its the case that both cities have positives and negatives. Its only my opinion that Galway has more going for it as a place to live, work, study, socialise etc...

By the way just to be really really pedantic, Galway is still officially the third largest city in Ireland with a population of 65,832. Limerick city contains 54,023 people. Of course Limerick's actual population whan the county areas are taken into consideration is closer to 87,000. However were areas such as Barna and Oranmore, which are just outside Galway's city boundary taken into account in a similar way the Galway figure would be closer to 80,000. Add to that the very rapid increase in Galway's population which is ongoing and there isn't really too much to call when it comes to population.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby anto » Mon May 09, 2005 1:00 am

any opinions on this new development in the people's park in limerick? big write up in the Limerick leader, seems to have caused a bit of contoversy

http://www.limerick-leader.ie/issues/20050507/news01.html
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Mon May 09, 2005 1:45 pm

dave123 wrote:Limerick needs to be seen and recogniesed as ireland's third city ! its a beautiful city with the majestic shannon flows through the old english town and the splendid georgian town. there is a lot of bad press about limerick been an rough and derelict city . its as safe as any other city in ireland if not safer!The city is really changing with its bold new designs and high rise buildings at the limerick doclands .

Anybody that has not been in Limerick latley there is to high rise building been built at spaights courner and are 15 storeys and 12 storeys high , looks quite cool !!! its opposite that clarion hotel and really overlooks and enhances the area.

Please keep new developments and news posted!!!!!



well bth just to let u know galway is a small town compared to limerick! you can try add all the towns around galway even 10 miles out like spiddal and oranmore . but Castletroy a suburb of limerick has a population of
nearly 25000 and is not even in the city boundary or raheen,not to mention into clare and and county limerick !!! well what about shannon town and patrickswell and maybe annacotty???? you just can't argue that!
greater limerick is 100.000 if the boundary extemtion goes ahead .

anyway anybody know plans for the 250 acre deveolpment at the shannon docks ? i got a bit of information on http://www.riversidecity.ie if anyne wants to check it out !!!!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby mickeydocs » Mon May 09, 2005 1:52 pm

Thought this thread was about Limerick... and not a Galway versus Limerick rant... seems as if this third city tag is causing some hostility between these two.
Anyway, isn't Tallaght arguably Ireland's third largest town :)

dave123 wrote:well bth just to let u know galway is a small town compared to limerick! you can try add all the towns around galway even 10 miles out like spiddal and oranmore . but Castletroy a suburb of limerick has a population of
nearly 25000 and is not even in the city boundary or raheen,not to mention into clare and and county limerick !!! well what about shannon town and patrickswell and maybe annacotty???? you just can't argue that!
greater limerick is 100.000 if the boundary extemtion goes ahead .

anyway anybody know plans for the 250 acre deveolpment at the shannon docks ? i got a bit of information on http://www.riversidecity.ie if anyne wants to check it out !!!!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby mickeydocs » Mon May 09, 2005 1:54 pm

btw where does the info that Limerick is Ireland's third wealthiest town come from... this doesn't seem to fit in with the cost of property in Limerick.
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Mon May 09, 2005 2:05 pm

i posted it .
the information about third wealtiest place in ireland , foud it out on the http://www.cso.ie \and the environment edior of the irish times printed an article of the regional cities of ireland a few months back and stated that after dublin and kildare its the wealtiest per capita ..... well hope that ans your question.
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