Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby Devin » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:25 am

Image

DREAM TIME BECOMES A REALITY

KILLENARD, CO LAOIS
FROM €600,000

CLASSICALLY DESIGNED, ELEGANT IRISH COUNTRY HOUSES

The stunningly elegant country houses currently being built by Surestone at Killenard in Co. Loais are as far removed from the high-density developments in Dublin as it would be possible to get.
Space, luxury and glamour are all on offer at Carriglea, a well-designed development of 52 houses where the second phase has now gone on the market with agents Nolan and Brophy in charge of sales………
Carriglea is near the Heritage Golf and Country Club where the course was designed by Seve Ballesteros and Jeff Howes……….
For house hunters, this is dream time become reality. Here, within reasonable reach of Dublin, is a choice of different house types, all based on the Classical large Irish country house theme, with period elegance to provide a prestigious alternative for the buyer who has always wished for a fine country mansion…………
The entrance to the development sets the standard with tall cut stone piers and iron railings and a central water feature inside. The entrance is flanked on both sides by two period-style gate lodges. There will be ample use of semi-mature trees as well as period-style fencing.
Architectural design is by Damien Hughes and Associates of Killcullen…....

(IRISH INDEPENDENT PROPERTY SUPPLEMENT 01/04/05)



Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace? Lauding this sort of putrid muck while at the same time showing no clue as to why higher density development with good public transport links is essential to the future well-being of the country.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby GrahamH » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:35 am

Bbbbut it's got a fountain Devin - with shells on!

Can you not see?! How can you not be tempted?!
Who gives two hoots about public transport, now I can fit four cars in my drive!

The dream has indeed become a reality :)
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby lunasa » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:30 am

Sue Ellen's granny's annex. Looooove the garden, pity about the drive.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby Lotts » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:20 am

Shame on Damien Hughes.
That sure is one badly proportioned door.
Could be the very example of curved PVC that you were looking for though Graham
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby phil » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:26 am

Yes Devin, that small caption below the image says it all doesnt it? "As far removed from the high density developments in Dublin that it would be possible to get". What I think is most worrying about this is what it says about demand. There are obviously people out there who want this sort of home (lifestyle). This form of demand is driven to some extent by the media, but on the other hand I don't think they would print artilcles like that unless there were people there to buy into the idea in the first place.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby Areaone » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:54 am

Sweet mother of Jesus!

I notice the date of the supplement is April 1st.......could it be an April Fools?......It must be suely!!
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby PVC King » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:33 pm

Dreadfull door and window detailing and what a postage stamp garden for such a grand statement of a house, I suppose looking on the bright side at least it isn't perched on top of a hill.

Regarding the newspaper I suppose the agents have been doing some advertising and this article is their reward for being loyal customers of Independent News & Media PLC. I read in the Irish Times annual results for 2000 that property & recruitment advertising made up 40% of total turnover for the year 2000. Cheerleading is an art and that particular advert is as good example of cheerleading based on customer loyalty as you will ever see, I expected better from Cliona O'Donaghue she normally does a better job as editor.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby Sue » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:33 pm

what a lot of snobs you people are
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:38 pm

absolutely and Ireland needs us
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby PVC King » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:42 pm

Sue wrote:what a lot of snobs you people are


I don't that your interpretation is fair, these are not starter homes that we are talking about, at those prices something a lot better could and should have been delivered.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby emf » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:47 pm

Does anyone else get the feeling that the articles in the property supplements are, in most cases, just a re-hash of the developers/ auctioneers/ estate agents advertising blurbs??

I'm sick of reading what seems like journalistic opinion but is instead a promo for a "fantastically" located "spacious" one bed ground floor flat in a new development in Ballyfermot (Sandyford etc., etc.).

I think they just copy and paste out of the press releases. There is usually very little, if any, criticism of the terrible replicates style of apartment that is going up all over this city!
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby phil » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:59 pm

Sue wrote:what a lot of snobs you people are


Sue, those sorts of developments are constructed with one type of person in mind: the sort that likes to avoid the realities of both country and city living, but have the benefits of both. By closing themselves off in to a little enclave where they encounter no one that they don't want to, they get a false impression of country dwelling with all the comforts of urban life. I really am not sure if you are calling the right people snobs.

emf, I think you have a made a very good point there. However Thomond's point earlier on about 'Cheerleading' makes alot of sense (unfortunately)
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby Devin » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:04 pm

emf wrote:Does anyone else get the feeling that the articles in the property supplements are, in most cases, just a re-hash of the developers/ auctioneers/ estate agents advertising blurbs??


Absolutely. You see this all the time in the various property supplements. But I’ve never seen it presented in such unashamed glowing tones as above.…you have to ask what kind of schmucks do the Irish Indo Property Supplement have writing for them?

Sue, the villages of Ireland are covered in these kind of mock-period estates tacked onto the edges of them.... As Phil said it’s what people want. But they result indirectly in destruction of real heritage, they don’t knit into the existing village structure, they are (to many) a visual blight and they are designed as car-dependent commuter housing to a town or city maybe 50 miles away, thus contributing to congestion, poor air quality and ozone-depleting emissions.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby dowlingm » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:33 pm

Any prospect of Dublin ever getting something like this?

http://www.mls.ca

makes househunting a lot easier, although it could use some improvements/more accurate data at times. Between this and (where you have an address) Google maps satellite images (which covers Toronto) you can see both what's on offer in your price range and what the neighbourhood is like.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby Lotts » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:35 pm

dowlingm wrote:Any prospect of Dublin ever getting something like this?

http://www.mls.ca

.....


that's like a canadian myhome.ie
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby Sue » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:28 pm

this is snobbery:

Phil: those sorts of developments are constructed with one type of person in mind: the sort that likes to avoid the realities of both country and city living, but have the benefits of both. By closing themselves off in to a little enclave where they encounter ...... (blah blah)


How do you know what sort of person is going to buy that house? Stereotyping people should have no place on a website dedicated to critiquing architecture.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby GrahamH » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:40 pm

Why don't you critique it then Sue.
What's your assessment of the architecture of these houses?
And the planning implications?
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby ctesiphon » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:48 pm

"...within reasonable reach of Dublin..."

How does one define 'reasonable'? "Honey, I'm just popping into Dublin city centre for a pint of milk- I should be back in three to four hours, depending on the traffic. Actually, y'know what? I think I'll take the bike..."

Sue- it is not snobbery to question the truth of such statements as the above (whatever about the debate on the style). Far from snobbery, such questioning derives ultimately from a (I should say 'my', as I don't necessarily speak for all) ...from MY belief that such developments undermine the common good of the nation, i.e. by encouraging car dependency, promoting social segregation (if there are gate lodges, are there gates too?), etc.
But then again, Laois doesn't exactly have a good reputation in planning recently- wholesale rezoning of village peripheries (counter to the NSS, all perceptions of good planning practice...) for the (alleged) benefit of a select few landowners, anyone?

This thread has concentrated on the stylistic side of Devin's original post, but he made similar points about density in it too.

PS For the record, I think they're horrible. A recent thread asked about regional architectural styles- these would be an example of the polar opposite. (Where's the smiley for throwing up?)
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby phil » Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:23 pm

Sue wrote:this is snobbery:

Phil: those sorts of developments are constructed with one type of person in mind: the sort that likes to avoid the realities of both country and city living, but have the benefits of both. By closing themselves off in to a little enclave where they encounter ...... (blah blah)


How do you know what sort of person is going to buy that house? Stereotyping people should have no place on a website dedicated to critiquing architecture.


Sue. my comments were completely based on the way in which this article is written. It directly indicates the type of buyer who might be interested in it:

For house hunters, this is dream time become reality. Here, within reasonable reach of Dublin, is a choice of different house types, all based on the Classical large Irish country house theme, with period elegance to provide a prestigious alternative for the buyer who has always wished for a fine country mansion...


I dont need to stereo-type, the article has done it for me. Who do you think wants to live there, if you think my opinion is so 'blah blah'? How can a design like this make a buyer feel 'prestigious'?

Sue, if that article does not illustrate the point enough you should have a look at the auctioneers web-page:
http://www.nolan-brophy.com/html/new_dev.htm#

For example:
The developers of Carriglea set out to create magnificent Country Manor style residences at the top end of the market for the discerning purchaser who wants something very special indeed.


or:

These homes will beautifully evoke the pleasures of rural living and this unique development will offer a package for residents and their families on a scale and of a quality simply unavailable in the towns or the city.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby DublinLimerick » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:57 pm

Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

You appear to lack grammatical knowledge.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby PVC King » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:07 pm

That particular scheme is particularly bad, if you look at 5 design types only two of them could even be considered pastiche the other three are very poor attempts at period replication. What makes a Country House is its setting; they need to be viewed from a distance across a parkland setting.

Thanks for posting the link Phil it really has opened a can of worms
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby phil » Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:49 pm

DublinLimerick wrote:Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

You appear to lack grammatical knowledge.


Absolutely. It is nearly as bad as someone saying DublinLimerick! :)
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby GrahamH » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:48 am

DublinLimerick you cannot change the title of a thread after noticing an error. If you want to see some real grammatical blunders, visit Phil's link above...

It also features 'The Moorings':

Image

Thank goodness the picture's that small. Despite what has been said about the 'luxury' estate above, I don't think I'd go for the high density option either...

"The Moorings are a block of luxury apartments / duplex units overlooking the River Liffey designed with the emphasis on space and full use of the panoramic views of the surrounding countryside."

Yes views from the building, clearly not of it.
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby Devin » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:21 am

That Nolan Brophy website certainly says a lot. Actually, I’ll just post it again in case Sue missed it;
SUE CLICK HERE: http://www.nolan-brophy.com/html/new_dev.htm#

DublinLimerick, yes, I know perfectly well it would normally be “Isn’t”. I use “Aren’t” as in “Aren’t they?” because the preponderance of, and positive coverage of, period-style development in the I. I. supplement clearly reflects the group of people who put it together, and to distinguish it from the main paper, who have some good writers like Treacy Hogan and John S. Doyle.

More than anything when I flick through the I. I. property supplement, I find it hard to believe it is 2005. It’s more like we’re in the first wave of ‘Georgian-style’ building of 20-30 years ago (popularised, inadvertently, by the Irish Georgian Society’s campaigns to save real Georgian architecture), except it’s much more sinister now because the sale of development land is a business/income in itself, & all the other reasons mentioned already. It was full of crap again today!

It was the sick phraseology like “stunningly elegant country houses”, the building company being called ‘Surestone’ (you wouldn’t find one piece of real stone on those houses), and the parallel ignorance of planning issues that really got me about that I. I. piece. Incidentally, there’s no name on the article, but the name on the top of the page is Valerie McGrath, so I presume it is by her. Hard to believe this piece to appeared in her own paper a few months ago: http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3262

I know I’m stating the obvious here, but estates like ‘Carriglea’ are born out of a vicious circle of bad planning: - sprawl, one-off housing & its associated traffic generation reduce the liveability of urban centres, where the jobs are, resulting in the building of estates like this, supposedly ‘away from it all’. But, being car-dependent, they further reduce the liveability of urban centres & the area around them, generating more demand for estates and one-offs in quiet places. And so it goes on.…
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Re: Aren't the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace?

Postby GrahamH » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:02 am

I'd agree about the Indo's coverage of this type of development, and this type of architecture. I don't want to name names of journalists, but I find coverage of 'real' Georgian equally fawning in the Independent's pages, not least by a person previously mentioned here - with the most fruity of vocabulary applied to the most standard of Georgian and Victorian housing. They also constantly call Victorian housing Georgian.

But the fact that the same voluptuous language used to describe these 'modern' developments is applied in equal measure to the most stunning or architecturally significant of period properties makes so much of their supplement all the more preposterous.
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