Parnell Square redevelopment

Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby StephenC » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:38 pm

Wonder how the proposed memorial fits in...

Course it would be nice to see the Plan on the Council's website the same day that it is launched. Seems everyone was none the wiser about the story breaking today. The City Architect never even mentioned it at last night's opening of Central Bank in the 21st Century...despite the fact that a number of those entries suggested a Library for the former bank....including the winning design! Perhaps the City Architect wasnt in the loop...this is Dublin City Council after all.

HOWEVER! The Plan sounds like a great opportunity for the Square and I fervently hope that their is a programme of action behind it to realised its objectives...unlike its 2005 forebearer.

I look forward to reading it.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby gunter » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:10 pm

Ali [the City Architect] was just explaining all of this on the radio.

The new library is to be built in the buckets of space behind Scoil whatsitsname on Parnell Square North and it's going to be 'an incredibly dynamic space', which I suppose will be some compensation for having no architectural presence on any actual street.

As grand civic statements go, is that not like announcing that a site has been found for Mr Gandon's new Custom House . . . in a yard behind Store Street?

I note also the Dublin's 'Civic Spine' has taken another turn, with Grangegorman and Kilmainham now its new extremities.

The whole thing is going to be financed by 'Philanthropic funding'. Why did nobody think of this before?
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby StephenC » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:57 pm

There's already a gloss video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld_Ol-9tLwk
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby lostexpectation » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:31 pm

StephenC wrote:Wonder how the proposed memorial fits in...



here's a very large 2.5mb image you just about see the memorial under the trees, slightly hedging their bets i think http://www.dublincity.ie/RecreationandC ... 20view.jpg
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby thebig C » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:36 pm

I actually like the renders and I feel this project would provide and interesting backdrop and alternative entrance to the Garden of Rememberance, as opposed to the tangle of groth that currently envelopes this part of the site. However, I am allways instinctively dubious about developments which are "fitted in" , as the constraints of the site compromise the design.

I would be equally unsympathetic about some of the objectors though, somehow I suspect Mannix Flynn is part of the Anti-everything brigade.

C
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby arachne » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:46 pm

Those cuboid three-storey pillars are hideous, as is that ridiculous cylindrical billboard that says 'Cad é an scéal?'. They are to this architectural era what Hawkins House was to the 60s.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby StephenC » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:16 pm

arachne wrote:Those cuboid three-storey pillars are hideous, as is that ridiculous cylindrical billboard that says 'Cad é an scéal?'. They are to this architectural era what Hawkins House was to the 60s.


I think that the images shown on Friday are only preliminary suggestions. I dont think it represents the end design.

Now that the froth of Friday has subsided, what do we all think of the proposal. Ali Grehan suggested it would be the most important investment in the north city for 100 years. Not quite that, but it is a huge impetus to the improvement of Parnell Square and the surrounding streets. Its a lot of money though...€60m just for one development. Its worth noting that the 2005 Framework Plan for the Square planned to spend about €12 if I remember rightly. That plan soon died (as these plans all too often do in Dublin) once it came against the quangoed might of the RPA and their interminable planning for Metro North and Luas BXD.

I think the proposal to move the Library here makes a great deal of sense. I think it will cluster a group of cultural institutions together to their overall benefit. I like the idea of pedestrianising the north side of the Square and finally improving the quality of the public realm on the Square, which is dismal and incoherent. I have a feeling what will emerge from the City Architects will be a contemporary, chinese granite and 'funky' lighting proposal for the square. I think you can reimagine the space and still reinforce its historic character. I wonder what will happen to the Dublin Bus mini-depot that is Granby Row/West Parnell Square. Where will all de buses go if suddenly people decide they want to use more roadspace.

How about the Colaiste Mhuire buildings. Does the theatre to the rear have any architectural merit. Might that upset the planning process?

The project is undoubtedly a coup for the City Architects over the usual originators of projects within the Council. Ali Grehan was making the most of it on Friday and fair play...it is a forward looking proposal for the city. The next question is who will design the building? Looking at the Cork Hill fiasco I am not sure I would like to trust this to DCC. And looking at the state of Dublin Castle at present, I am not sure I would trust OPW. So perhaps it will be go out to a firm. I think that would be a good outcome - and a nice little earner for someone by the looks of it.

Still thinking of whether €60m is a justifiable cost?
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby StephenC » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:35 pm

thebig C wrote:I actually like the renders and I feel this project would provide and interesting backdrop and alternative entrance to the Garden of Rememberance, as opposed to the tangle of groth that currently envelopes this part of the site. However, I am allways instinctively dubious about developments which are "fitted in" , as the constraints of the site compromise the design.

I would be equally unsympathetic about some of the objectors though, somehow I suspect Mannix Flynn is part of the Anti-everything brigade.

C

darcspace on North Great Georges Street are hosting an exhibition of all the entries for the memorial from Thursday this week. That should be interesting.

I think Mannix views on whether it is appropriate to link a memorial for one thing into a memorial for another are quite relevant actually. I think he is raising a legitimate issue...maybe not a planning issue, maybe more an issue at the time of commissioning and site selection but sure who thinks of these things then.

My biggest concern with the proposed memorial is the wisdom of sticking an open tunnel like structure into the site...its a red flag to people using the place as a toilet or sleeping rough. So a gate will almost certainly be added. The next question then is how often it is opened? Is this going to be like the 1988 Millennium Garden on Christchurch Place...nice to look into.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby thebig C » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:50 pm

Hey StephenC

Your point regarding the tunnel aspect is legitimate. Afterall, Parnell Squares poor reputation is not undeserved. Furthermore, I think the boardwalk and numerous other examples have proved that we are not good at either policing or indeed servicing public amenities.

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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby StephenC » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:10 pm

For those interested, further information on the proposed memorial has now been submitted to Dublin City Council - ref WEB1196/12
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby StephenC » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:24 pm

A victory for common sense...

Dublin memorial to abuse victims refused permission - Plans would have had negative impact on Garden of Remembrance

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environm ... -1.1609187

Plans to build a memorial to victims of institutional abuse in the Garden of Remembrance on Dublin’s Parnell Square have been refused by An Bord Pleanála.
The application by the Office of Public Works to build the monument was approved by Dublin City Council last May despite several objections including one from an abuse survivors’ support group. It was subsequently appealed to An Bord Pleanála.
A number of parties, including Irish Survivors of Child Abuse and former industrial school resident and Independent city councillor Mannix Flynn objected on the grounds that it interfered with the existing memorial to those who died fighting for Irish freedom and that the association between the two memorials was inappropriate.
Others, including the Irish Georgian Society, objected to the effect the proposal would have on the structure and character of the historic 18th century square.
Despite the council having approved the application, An Bord Pleanála said the plans were in conflict with the council’s own rules for the protection of the special interest and character of conservation areas under Dublin City Development Plan “The proposal therefore would not be in accordance with proper planning and sustainable development,” An Bord Pleanála said.
It also said that as the Garden of Remembrance is a “State memorial” used for State ceremonial occasions and was of national importance, it was inappropriate to put a “second unrelated memorial” on the site.
“It is considered, notwithstanding the importance of the creation of a memorial to commemorate the victims of institutional abuse, that the proposed development would have an adverse impact on the setting, character and function of the Garden of Remembrance,” the board said.
The €500,000 Journey of Light memorial, designed by Dublin-based Studio Negri with Hennessy & Associates, featured a covered passageway, lit at night and flanked by fossilised limestone walls and waterfalls. It was to be put up behind Oisín Kelly’s Children of Lir monument commemorating the 1916 Rising, in line with the Irish flag, with the State apology to abuse victims inscribed at child’s-eye level.
The proposal also sought a gated opening in the railings along Parnell Square West to access the memorial and new service access gates to Parnell Square North on a 2,140sq m site.
The Journey of Light was chosen in July last year as the memorial for abuse victims by a committee set up by the Department of Education following a year-long design competition.
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