college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby gunter » Fri May 15, 2009 12:32 pm

DjangoD wrote:. . . . even if some of the bankers didn't look too comfortable with the proximity of those weird longhairs encroaching on their territory.


Perhaps it was the sight of pigs impaled and roasting on a spit that made the bankers feel a bit uncomfortable!
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Morlan » Sun May 24, 2009 11:35 pm

Image


The absolute gem of the south city centre. Buy out the car parks, force Dublin Bus to change their routes, get the Luas in. Pedestrianise all streets. What a fantastic city Dublin could be. :(
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby igy » Mon May 25, 2009 7:37 pm

You probably could have highlighted the Dublin Castle complex too
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby alonso » Mon May 25, 2009 7:41 pm

and eh trinity?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Mon May 25, 2009 9:26 pm

I think he's suggesting what streets should be pedestrianised. I agree with all of this except for the quays. They should be pedestrianised too. As it stands, we have a dual carriageway running down the middle of the city.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby lostexpectation » Tue May 26, 2009 6:54 pm

see the green new 10 point plan

eg

Liffey Boulevard
We will widen footpaths and plant trees along the Liffey Quays between Heuston and the Custom House. Dubliners and visitors to the city will be able to walk or cycle in comfort and safety beside the River Liffey. We’ll seek a car-free Sunday once a month so that families can cycle, roller-blade or walk along the Liffey Quays

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/now_is_the_time_to_turn_dublin_into_a_cycling_city_says_green_minister

car free from college green and all of oconnell street
http://download.greenparty.ie/city_centre_connecting_LR.pdf
see the hastily added beckett bridge
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby forrestreid » Tue May 26, 2009 10:07 pm

Impressive promises from the Greens, but I have to admit I am skeptical.

Wasn't that long go that they were promising more buses for Dublin- and we saw how that turned out.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Tue May 26, 2009 10:55 pm

The only way to enforce speed limits is fixed speed cameras... but they are not small

I think speed humps and bumps are better...
Pearce street wont breath for a long time unless its dug up...
The forget it bridge?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Thu May 28, 2009 7:49 am

does anyone like this effect???
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby gunter » Fri May 29, 2009 9:31 am

missarchi wrote:does anyone like this effect???


Is it not a bit . . . shadows on concrete?

Here's a high level view of College Street towards College Green, complete with plethora of buses.

Image
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Fri May 29, 2009 11:21 am

Does that picture prove you could see custom house from college green well the dome would be interesting?

It's the greek effect its quite nice...

I think with introducing bikes its not just about racks...

I find it bizarre I'm not allowed to make fire exits open onto the footpath but someone can open there car door into a cycle lane ( which is more dangerous ?)

You need like 1 day in jail or 1 weeks wages for hitting a cyclist and causing injury + damages...

Do the Garda do entrapment with bugged bicycles?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby notjim » Fri May 29, 2009 11:32 am

lostexpectation wrote:see the green new 10 point plan

eg

Liffey Boulevard
We will widen footpaths and plant trees along the Liffey Quays between Heuston and the Custom House. Dubliners and visitors to the city will be able to walk or cycle in comfort and safety beside the River Liffey. We’ll seek a car-free Sunday once a month so that families can cycle, roller-blade or walk along the Liffey Quays

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/now_is_the_time_to_turn_dublin_into_a_cycling_city_says_green_minister

car free from college green and all of oconnell street
http://download.greenparty.ie/city_centre_connecting_LR.pdf
see the hastily added beckett bridge


If only they were in power.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby alonso » Fri May 29, 2009 11:41 am

who told you being in government was being in power. The city is controlled by Dublin Bus not the government, national or local ;)

I just hope they don't get totally creamed on Friday. Compare this plan to the visions of the other parties.... what vision you may ask. Precisely say I and I despair. But then i recall this and despair even more so http://www.newheartfordublin.ie/about.html and then almost immediately recall this and breathe a small sigh of relief
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1110/1225925618848.html

It's a rollercoaster alright, this city planning and urban design lark
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:17 pm

It's proposed to take the trees down around the jacks and fill the toilets with concrete as part of the metro works. What goes on the cake? Sounds good but I get the feeling it is a pre-emptive strike for luas
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby marmajam » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:58 pm

alonso wrote:who told you being in government was being in power. The city is controlled by Dublin Bus not the government, national or local ;)

I just hope they don't get totally creamed on Friday. Compare this plan to the visions of the other parties.... what vision you may ask. Precisely say I and I despair. But then i recall this and despair even more so http://www.newheartfordublin.ie/about.html and then almost immediately recall this and breathe a small sigh of relief
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1110/1225925618848.html

It's a rollercoaster alright, this city planning and urban design lark



Jebus! They Wish!!

It's actually controlled by about 25 mechanics who down tools (somehow they accidently get them into their hands from time to time) the minute the Managers viciously ask a driver to get out and pick up a few passengers.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby GrahamH » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:05 pm

I see works are already underway for Bus Gate, with the pedestrian crossing at the Trinity side of the College Street island being significantly widened. Of course why this wasn't done twenty years ago is anyone's guess. But credit where due, the granite kerbstones are being carefully stored, as is now standard practice in the city. Problems with antique paving in Dublin tend to arise with relaying though...

The opportunity should be taken at this point to rationalise and improve the College Street island, in spite of imminent Metro works, which are still some way down the line. All for extremely minimal expense, all of the trees here should be removed, along with the above-ground lavatory paraphernalia, telephone kiosks, tarmaced surfaces and signal boxes. A simple but attractive concrete-flagged surface with robust granite edging, a handful of elegant lamp standards and benches languishing in storage out in Marrowbone Lane, and some decent planters if needs be, would simply transform this important part of the city, restoring order, dignity and (shock!) sightlines to the portico of the House of Lords, and tide us over for a couple of years. As it is, significant amounts of the paving is already being dug up. Simple simple measures people...

Interesting view of College Street there, gunter. Makes the city look like a charming Tallin-esque toytown (with a dash of Soviet pazazz chucked in to the bottom left for good measure).

jimg wrote:
The presence of a considerable number of buses does not contribute positively to the urban environment obviously. Unfortunately, for the moment it is a vital public transport mode particularly given Dublin's obvious shortcomings in terms of rail. One of the worst aspects is the air pollution and this is exacerbated significantly by the stop/start nature of the current flow of buses through this area of town. If the passage of buses can at least me made smother and more efficient, then the environmental damage they cause will be lessened considerably.

Sadly, being pragmatic, Dublin's topography means that there are certain streets which will continue to serve the role as arterial routes for motorised traffic for the foreseeable future and unfortunately, I think it's unavoidable that College Green will have a role in this regard. The aim should be to reduce the amount of motorised traffic on these routes as much as possible (and any sort of restriction helps in this regard) while building largely pedestrianised zones in the urban islands created between them. This would be cheap and easy to achieve and would be a step in the right direction until it is no longer necessary to carry passengers by bus around the city centre and the entire centre can be reclaimed for pedestrians, cyclists and clean/quiet on-street trams. Is it my imagination or did the expansion of pedestrianisation in Dublin slow or stop 5 or 10 years ago?


I think you're probably right on this jimg. We have to be pragmatic until such a time as a wider transport infrastructure is in place. But the problem that so many people have with this plan, and understandably so, is that in typical fashion in this city, the scheme will be used as the opening of a door which may prove impossible to close again. Even amongst many business interests in the city, aside from their greatest concerns about perceived reduced shopping access to the core, they do view it in a manner as most of us here do - leading to a reduction in quality of an already significantly compromised core, where services and infrastructure take precedence over a quality civic life and enjoyment of place.

These latter points are critical factors in suburbanites' decision-making about where to go shopping and cultural consumption - not on a day-to-day basis, but for special or 'big ticket' purchases or services, at a time when Dundrum et al are increasingly catching up in terms of attractions, if not on experience. Negating the quality of the public realm of the city centre in the longer term is to compromise its most prized asset: the one element out-of-town centre cannot compete with on any level. There is a fear that the Irish public administration mentality, which tends to focus on micro practicalities, will simply sustain Bus Gate long beyond its shelf-life, while also making it more difficult to effect radical civic improvement of the city's ceremonial core. The implemented limited hours of operation is probably worth a shot anyway.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby jimg » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:11 pm

I'm not sure Graham. I could be wrong but my impression was that the intention of "bus gate" was to allow the more efficient passage of buses through this area of the city not to funnel extra buses through there. (Actually when you think about it, where would they come from? There there are no other South to North routes in the city centre. In addition, Dublin Bus is actually cutting it's fleet I believe.) So I don't view it as a "foot in the door" sort of thing and it's hard to take city centre traders' sky-will-fall-down concerns seriously after they made similar noises about the Luas which proved to be completely unfounded. Anything which gets buses out of that area quickly and efficiently is to be welcomed. I think if the flow was smooth and efficient, the "bus depot" effect created by buses stuck in traffic, buses stopped for pick up, buses queuing for a place to stop, etc. would be minimised. Anyway, whatever about buses traveling through large WSC streets, theres is no justification ever for sending buses down small intimate streets like Suffolk St.

Like it or not we are stuck with buses as the prime public transport mode for a few years yet. I don't see where else buses could go through the city without seriously compromising the utility of their routes. Restrict the number of buses and you'd murder the city commercially; it might look nice for a year or two but there'd be tumbleweed in the city if you stopped buses from crossing the centre. The only option is to try and mitigate their damage and Bus Gate does that to a degree. No it's not perfect but I think it is a small positive step.

Yes this should be the perfect time to show that the city has a bit of pride in its centre of gravity and it could be done relatively cheaply. Particularly I'd be 100% in favour of taking a chainsaw to every single tree in College Green, Westmoreland St and the East end of Pearse St. These are some of the most important buildings and vistas in Dublin and obscuring and masking them with a hodge podge of irregularly laid out and in some cases deformed trees is disgraceful.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Bago » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:53 pm

missarchi wrote:I think speed humps and bumps are better...
Do you drive? Bad idea.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:17 pm

Bago wrote:Do you drive? Bad idea.


Yeah I do and I hate parking fines and parking fees... The humps in Ireland are for ladies
Carrer de Jaumel? All you need is a super humps outside starbucks college street \ . With college green on the level. Some Bluestone block like ruff cut stuff before the speed humps would also be a bonus but not like the re-levelled stuff in temple bar. It also gives off a noise if speeding. The thing to do in college green itself is put the low cut madrid bollards so close together that cars have to drive slowly and have to do right angle like turns with no room for error otherwise the car gets it. Dame St go from 5 lanes to 3 (1 bicycle) with parking median not so sure but possible....
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby GrahamH » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:09 pm

Fully agreed jimg regarding traders' concerns about access to the city - limiting access to College Green is not going to stop shoppers coming into town. Rather, I just mentioned this in the context of the impressive insight some traders and politicians displayed in relation to the importance of a quality public realm and the impact of Bus Gate on this. But a 'more efficient' movement of buses through College Green, as I see it, means more opportunity for a wall of buses to clog the space. Indeed by definition, the removal of the dilution afforded by private cars will result in the cells of traffic passing through being dominated by buses relative to the current scenario. As regards Dublin Bus's fleet being reduced, at the very least this will only be sustained for a year or two - it is not a long-term solution, whereas Bus Gate has the potential to be. The taxi fleet is also ever-expanding to insane levels. But the net effects either way are so arbitrary to the average punter that we might as well give it a trial run, as is being rolled out.

The new crossing at the Trinity side of College Street, moved eastwards and made substantially wider. Alas, those crossing tiles are not buff coloured, but entirely unnecessary garish red, coated in dust.

Image


The few pieces of antique paving uplifted during the work.

Image


And as just reinstated awaiting repointing.

Image

(don't get me started on the logic of joints there)

The vast area of the island being dug up right now. Appallingly insensitive treatment of the city’s vernacular tarmaced surfaces!

Image


Below was taken before the above works had extended, but the amount of municipal tat clogging the island is something else. All of this should be wiped clean, including the trees.

Image


The current head-on view of the portico of the House of Lords. I risked my life attempting to get it.

Image

Just shameful. Interestingly though, the Moore statue is not on axis with the portico, addressing it as it does at a slight angle from left of centre. Quite odd given there was ample room to make him such originally.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:30 am

GrahamH wrote:(don't get me started on the logic of joints there)


telecoms and politicians~
if college green was on the level you would not need it...
coláiste oiliúna;
green = adj glas m1
green = uaine f4
green = faiche f4

the last photo right in the middle of the grey box

missarchi wrote:"the engineering option"
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Rory W » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:18 am

Sill taking the medication missarchi?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby cgcsb » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:41 am

Rory W wrote:Sill taking the medication missarchi?


SO I'm not the only one that finds it annoying when he fills threads with such random bollox? thank god.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:19 pm

Rory W wrote:Sill taking the medication missarchi?


yeah Dublin water will do that to you ...
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