spencer dock

spencer dock

Postby notjim » Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:53 am

the indo had an article about the new, more detailed, spencer dock plan: three line train overground train station, artists studios under the viaduct. does anyone know if this plan is available on-line anywhere.
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Postby PVC King » Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:58 pm

It looks fantastic.

If delivered by 2010 it would be visionary.
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Re: spencer dock

Postby PVC King » Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:31 pm

Originally posted by notjim
does anyone know if this plan is available on-line anywhere.


It is that similar to the DTO platform for change strategy as makes no difference. That can be accesses at http://www.dto.ie
Click onto strategy on the home page. The map is on page 17 of the document which is one of the better free downloads around.

Well done Eoin Ryan if you had been given Breannans job we might actually have got somewhere by now. :D
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Postby notjim » Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:12 pm

thanks diaspora, its the revised and more detailed spencer dock masterplan i am looking for if anyone knows where it can be found.

further to our own previous discussion about the interconnector and the metro, i guess you and the ie articles in the paper today have convinced me that the interconnector is important, i still amn't so sure about the metro, it seems to me that there are better and cheaper ways to connect to the airport.
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spencer dock

Postby T.G. Scott » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:52 am

a three platform station - a complete waste of time :mad:
after all this time and with the transport fiasco that is dublin city another finger is put in the dam...a perfect site for a grand station with links to mainline, an underground, luas, buses and so on...god forbid the idea that a rail link might some day happen between ireland and britain to facilitate the eurostar!!!
so from a mini manhattan completely out of context and ludricious in design to a half assed ill thought out idea with no real concept of the value of the site. sometimes it really does make you ask why do you even consider the likelihood of some one with enough brains and bollocks to put the bit between the teeth and get something right from the start!!! :mad:
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Re: spencer dock

Postby ewanduffy » Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:03 pm

Originally posted by T.G. Scott
.god forbid the idea that a rail link might some day happen between ireland and britain to facilitate the eurostar!!!

And with plans for a line under the Bering Straits, you will be able to travel from Cork to New York by train!
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Postby Andrew Duffy » Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:30 pm

I sense sarcasm...

What is so similar to the Platform for Change? That expensive clone of the London Underground map had nothing to do with any of Irish Rail's plans - the heavy rail link to the airport and underground tunnel have been doing the rounds for a decade at this stage, and using the Phoenix Park tunnel and Midland Line to bring Kildare commuter trains into Spencer Dock is just common sense. Irish Rail also realise the importance of car parks at train stations whereas PFC didn't. Oh, and the Luas, while not an Irish Rail project, predates PFC as well.
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Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:48 pm

Originally posted by Andrew Duffy the heavy rail link to the airport and underground tunnel have been doing the rounds for a decade at this stage, and using the Phoenix Park tunnel and Midland Line to bring Kildare commuter trains into Spencer Dock is just common sense. Oh, and the Luas, while not an Irish Rail project, predates PFC as well.


Spot on the plans all have their origins in the 1992 DTO report. I also agree that the network looked just a little too completed in an unrealistic timeframe when published as a platform for change in 2001.

It slipped into the category of a giant wishlist as opposed to a viable plan that could be implemented in a realistic timeframe.

That is why I am seriously hopeful that this scaled down and attainable list of projects could be developed along the VIABLE timeframe set out in yesterdays Indo. :)

The only problem I can see is that if the 'Park Tunnel is completed and the 'Interconnector' is not, that Kildare line passengers including the 5000 unit Adamstown passengers will be marooned in Spencer Dock which is about as little use to them as Heuston is at present.
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Postby blue » Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:13 pm

Platform11's diagram if you can follow it. Also the graphic from the indo here

You have to hand it to IE for having a bit of vision for a change but I think the chance of it getting built in six years is fanciful. However even if just parts of this plan get built it will make a difference to the long-suffering commuter.

It looks like the metro will finally die if this gets the go ahead. Which I think is short sightedness and will prove more costly in the future when a metro will have to be built and interest rates are higher.

Notjim the metro wasn't just a connection to the airport but a foundation stone of a larger network to serve all those areas that are not served properly by public transport.
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Postby Andrew Duffy » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:32 pm

I think the point about the Metro is that rather than being a good transport system is was a way to give vast sums of money to political cronies and consultants. The orbital metro line looks like a good idea, whereas the airport one achieves little except to dump airport passengers at the Green. A heavy rail link to the Airport and the proposed airport tram line to serve Ballymun and Swords would be great. In fact, all the proposed tramlines, plus the extra kilometre between the Green and Connolly, combined with DART on all the city lines and the tunnel would be the makings of a real transport system - adding the orbital metro, service to Dunboyne and Navan and extending the airport link to meet the Dunboyne spur would make it even better.
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Postby kefu » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:58 pm

Taking on board what's been said in another thread about the use of parks.
Isn't it amazing that nobody ever suggests building a station in the Phoenix Park/Dublin Zoo neck of the woods when they talk about the interconnector.
If that circle line from Heuston to Connolly were ever reopened, it would be criminal not to put in a stop in the park for locals and tourists alike.
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Postby blue » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:10 pm

I think the IE plans are great and the sooner they get implemented the better

I think the Luas will be a success in the areas it operates.

I know the metro would be expensive.

However I just don’t think we can fulfil future demands with more Luas lines. We could have Luas lines on every artery and still not meet demand. Dublin has a footprint three times the size of Amsterdam and a growing population that will need a metro system and we should start now.

I fear an M50 like situation were planners didn't forsee future demand. I would be delighted to be convinced otherwise!
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Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:12 pm

The core objectives need to be connectivity between existing routes and a heavy rail link to the airport.

The cost/benefit analysis of a Dart extension vs an independent metro line seems to be preferred. It wouldn't be my choice but once the airport is linked with all rail transport routes it is acceptable.

The metro interconnector between Spencer Dock to Heuston with stations at Pearse St and Stephens Green becomes absolutely crucial if Spencer Dock is the airport routes terminus.

It is that 5.2kms that would make or break the viability of the entire network.
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spencer dock

Postby T.G. Scott » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:33 pm

i still feel a great opportunity could be lost if a three track station is all this site will get. a central location smack in the middle of the city with scope for more growth and an increase in population, it is criminal not to see the potential here.
with all the focus on the quays, this could be the perfect spot for a grand central terminus with links to all services. a metro is essential to the city and so is an interconnector for mainline and metro services. laus/dart extns. bus services, more cycle lanes and pedestrian friendly amenities in the city are a much better long term investment plan than a poxy three track stop :mad:
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Re: spencer dock

Postby PVC King » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:45 pm

Originally posted by T.G. Scott
i still feel a great opportunity could be lost if a three track station is all this site will get. a central location smack in the middle of the city with scope for more growth and an increase in population, it is criminal not to see the potential here.


If you had seen the entire piece you would have seen that the train services are not going to terminus in this location but merely transit. In essence two routes are combined thus eliminating the 'Central Terminus and the requirement for a multi-track station.


Originally posted by T.G. Scott
with all the focus on the quays, this could be the perfect spot for a grand central terminus with links to all services.


In theory yes, but we all see what happened to Tom Gilmartin's great scheme in the late 1980's. Given that Spencer Dock is being developed at a high density the priority at this spot must be service a 3/4 mile radius of the station three tracks will do this easily.

Originally posted by T.G. Scott

[B] a metro is essential to the city and so is an interconnector for mainline and metro services. laus/dart extns. bus services, more cycle lanes and pedestrian friendly amenities in the city are a much better long term investment plan than a poxy three track stop :mad:


You are absolutely correct, we need to stop thinking small on a citywide basis. If the IDA didn't invest in industry there wouldn't have been a Celtic Souk. If the city doesn't invest in transport the Souk could follow the tiger into extinction.
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update

Postby T.G. Scott » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:53 pm

thanks for the info...again it is a little annoying to be so far away from home with limited access to news on such developments. cheers diaspora - i am a little less despondent so i wont be ranting about trains and such for a wee while!!!
i still remember the lines outside heuston for taxis at the height of the boom in the late 90's so i just hope the message may have gotten through to someone and a way out of the mire is being sought.
slan mush :D
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