Luas running after 12am

Luas running after 12am

Postby stira » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:12 pm

Just read that Brennan wants the Luas to run after 12, to "bring home late-night Dublin city revellers." This will be very handy for me, just have a few questions though, do you reckon prices will be increased after say 12 am? What's going to happen to the taxi drivers? I mean theyll probably lose some business from the smoking ban, but the Luas running after 12 will surely take a fair few potential customers. If business starts getting bad do you reckon theyll become cheaper or just leave the industry? What are your opinions? Also read the metro is getting the go ahead, I can guarantee you if it werent for Brennan and his persistence this wouldnt be the case, wed probably get an extra bus or two!!!!! Anyway hes the article re. Luas

TRANSPORT Minister Seamus Brennan has told the agency responsible for the Luas that he wants the service to operate into the early hours to bring home late-night Dublin city revellers.

It emerged yesterday that when the service is fully up and running in June, the trams will stop running at 12 midnight.

Mr Brennan watched the first Luas tram to cross the new cable-stayed Taney Bridge in Dundrum and the historic Nine Arches Viaduct at Milltown on the Sandyford-city centre line yesterday.

These were the first trams to cross the old Harcourt St commuter rail line since it was closed down on New Year's Eve, 1958.

Rail Procurement Agency (RPA) spokesman Ger Hannon said yesterday that the scheduled service times for both the Tallaght and Sandyford lines were 5am-12 midnight. But the minister has told the RPA they should operate much later because there are so many people who want to get home from the city centre during this time, the Irish Independent has learned.

However, Mr Hannon conceded that the operating times could be extended if there was sufficient demand.

The minister said that the Luas was costing €32m per kilometre, and insisted that this was in line with costs of other tram systems in France, Italy and Spain and elsewhere in the world. He was a lot more confident now than he was six months or a year ago that the June deadline for opening the Sandyford line and the August deadline for the Tallaght leg would be met.

Mr Brennan acknowledged Dublin had looked like a building site during construction, but predicted that once the service was open he would be besieged by people looking for Luas lines.

Mr Brennan said he had campaigned vigorously since the 1970s for the re-opening of the Harcourt Street line.

"We are witnessing another important milestone on the way to bringing alive again a highly efficient and regular daily commuter service along the old Harcourt Street line after a gap of 46 years," he said.

"The modern trams and efficient system will also further enhance Dublin's reputation as one of Europe's most progressive and cosmopolitan cities."

The 9km line is due to start in June and will have 13 stops, with a journey time of 22 minutes. At peak time there will be a tram every five minutes in both directions. Each 40-metre tram has the capacity to transport 310 people, adding up to 25,000 passengers a day or nine million a year.

Yesterday, the first test run was attended by a small group of local senior citizens who fondly remembered travelling on the old Harcourt Street trams in the 1950s, when the cost of a monthly ticket was 19 shillings.
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Postby blue » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:49 pm

It makes sense.
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Postby dc3 » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:50 pm

Luas running after 12am

I suppose so, - we would need to get home from work!

I assume what is meant is after 12 p.m. but given the lack of planning in evidence in this country, nice to have this more explicit.
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Postby anto » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:52 am

Yes 12:00 am you dope! as in morning, followed by 1:00am etc. jeeez!
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Postby StephenC » Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:07 am

:D

I mean the clock - thats basic!

I think that it makes better sense to have our public transport (incl) buses running until 1.00am with Nightlinks after then. The number of taxis? Well the market would regulate that.
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Postby MB O'Maoileoin » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:34 pm

If you use the 24 hour clock it's 00.00 and 12.00 otherwise it's 12 midnight and 12 noon (as was once pointed out to me by a pedantic court clerk when listing a hearing). Either way a late night service would be great; after all, don't some metro systems operate 24 hours a day?
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Postby Barry Long » Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:53 pm

LUAS won't run after 12am. In fact it will likely end up closing at 11.30 just like the buses. The reason? The houses along the route won't be able to sleep. Traveling along a narrow street the tram will have to honk and grind its way along the street. Forget the guff about 'silent' trams - that's untrue. Trams do make noise, a lot of it. I lives along a tram route in Amsterdam, so I know a lot about trams. In the mornings I always woke up with the sound of the first tram rumbling along the (wide) street. I can only imagine in horror how loud the tram will rumble and shake traveling past those tiny terraced houses just after the fourcourts stop. The compo claims from traumatised residents, fed lies by the RPA, will be astronomical.
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Postby Morlan » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:30 pm

Originally posted by Barry Long
LUAS won't run after 12am. In fact it will likely end up closing at 11.30 just like the buses. The reason? The houses along the route won't be able to sleep. Traveling along a narrow street the tram will have to honk and grind its way along the street. Forget the guff about 'silent' trams - that's untrue. Trams do make noise, a lot of it. I lives along a tram route in Amsterdam, so I know a lot about trams. In the mornings I always woke up with the sound of the first tram rumbling along the (wide) street. I can only imagine in horror how loud the tram will rumble and shake traveling past those tiny terraced houses just after the fourcourts stop. The compo claims from traumatised residents, fed lies by the RPA, will be astronomical.


Yes but the trams in Amsterdam are much older, heavier and rickety are they not?
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Postby Peter Fitz » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:53 pm

i disagree, was nearly run down by a test tram last week in Belgard, couldn't hear a damn thing ... was surprised at how quiet they are, gliding along ... sure there is some sound, but its not much ...
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Postby PVC King » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:01 pm

The noise and that is something that cannot be judged until they're up and running.

The passenger numbers using the existing nightlink services wouldn't suggest that late night LUAS services would be commercially viable.

Given that it is a private service these 'late night' services could be very short lived outside of holiday times and weekends.
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Postby Barry Long » Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:19 pm

Originally posted by Morlan


Yes but the trams in Amsterdam are much older, heavier and rickety are they not?


I lived along Tram 1 and and Tram 17. These are new trams that only came into service last year. They are almost identical in design to the RPA's trams.

When moving along a narrow street you see the tram does shake. Members may have seen the section of tram in Amsterdam between Konigsplein and Leidseplein (Tram 1,2,5). When people are walking in the vicinity of the tram the driver is required to honk the (shrill) horn to warn of its presence. Not even the soundest sleeper would be able to get some kip while the trams were grinding and beeping every five minutes; never mind the drunkards who'd be hanging around the stops. Trams don't run after midnight in Amsterdam for this reason.
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Postby Barry Long » Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:24 pm

Originally posted by Peter FitzPatrick
i disagree, was nearly run down by a test tram last week in Belgard, couldn't hear a damn thing ... was surprised at how quiet they are, gliding along ... sure there is some sound, but its not much ...


When in open suburbia the noise level is quite acceptable. There is no foot traffic to contend with so the horn remains unhonked. But inching through a narrow street the tram will not only vibrate the pavement but the horn wil have to be honked to warn street users a tram is passing. In any event the tram has to honk its horn while approching, while doors are closing, and while leaving each stop.
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Postby Gabriel-Conway » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:06 pm

The LUAS trams have two aural warning systems.

A shrill car-type "horn" for danger situations, and a lovely, electronic, but very melodious sounding "bell" which chimes softly to let pedestrians know that the tram is coming.

They used the latter when inching through Windy Arbour last week - a lovely sound, don't know how they managed to make an electronic bell sound so nice!

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Postby Barry Long » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:57 pm

Originally posted by Gabriel-Conway
The LUAS trams have two aural warning systems.

A shrill car-type "horn" for danger situations, and a lovely, electronic, but very melodious sounding "bell" which chimes softly to let pedestrians know that the tram is coming.

They used the latter when inching through Windy Arbour last week - a lovely sound, don't know how they managed to make an electronic bell sound so nice!

Gabriel


Saying the horn sounds melodious is very subjective. I know i'm subjective too and I say the sound is odious.

But going on the Amsterdam feeling - and my sentiments will be shared by anyone living along an urban tram route - nightlink trams will = nightmares for the residents along the city centre section of the Line A
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Postby Peter Fitz » Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:28 am

think your exaggerating things Barry ...
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Postby sw101 » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:03 am

Originally posted by Peter FitzPatrick
think your exaggerating things Barry ...


well he is irish. scaremongering is the most excercised political tool here dont you know?

did you hear all the publicans in ireland are going to fight the smoking ban and go to war? and that nearly a hundred million eastern europeans are going to come over here and rip up our celtic tiger for a kebab and ruin us all? even more terrifying is the rumour that ian paisley still has political sway and will be president of ireland by 2005? sometimes i despair
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Postby PaulC » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:10 am

.
The passenger numbers using the existing nightlink services wouldn't suggest that late night LUAS services would be commercially viable.


DIASPORA - are you mad? The late night bus service must be one of the most successful transport initiatives introduced in Dublin. Anytime I have used them (which has been a lot) they have been extremely busy. There is massive demand for late night transport - just look at the queues for taxis
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Postby Gabriel-Conway » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:00 am

. . . and just to point out that I said it was the *bell* that sounds (to me) melodious, not the horn.

It is also fairly quiet, and unlikely to penetrate through the walls of a house (the bell, not the horn).

Thje horn is of course noisy, as it should be for danger/conflict situations.

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Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:29 pm

Quote "The late night bus service must be one of the most successful transport initiatives introduced in Dublin. Anytime I have used them (which has been a lot) they have been extremely busy."

I'm not so sure that they are Extremely busy, yes they run at a profit but only because the fares are much higher.

Most nitelinks in my experience have about 30 passengers this is not enough to justify trams with a capacity of 200+ passengers on purely commercial grounds.


Quote "There is massive demand for late night transport - just look at the queues for taxis"

Getting a taxi hasn't been easier in a decade, deregulation of the taxi market has now been halted because taxi drivers were threatening in many cases doing other things. Where they could have a reliable source of income. Not trying to defend taxi drivers they had enough gravy, but if the bottom fell out of the market they'd all exit and persue other careers

I am in favour of late night LUAS but I wonder will a private operator run the service at a loss. Which I am sure it would be from Sunday to Thursday, not too many passengers to the Naas Rd at 3AM on a tuesday night. :rolleyes:
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Postby StephenC » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:42 pm

I think the buses can more than handle the business at night. Neither London or Paris run Metros through the night.
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Postby JJ » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:44 pm

Nottingham is due to open in March. They have had some complaints about noise from their Trams. The extract below comes from http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/news.html
I think its likely that similar issues will arise here in Dublin.


As far late night running its a commercial decision as far as Connex are concerned. they will want to balance patronage with costs for drivers, Control Room staff additional maintenance and cleaning. The Light Rail Orders allow running 24hrs if needed.

JJ


"28 sites in Nottingham are to see noise tests undertaken following complaints received from residents over the disturbance the Nottingham Express Transit trams are causing. It has led bosses at NET to saying that double glazing may be required for homes, at the expense of the tram company. Of the 28 locations 6 are places where residents have complained with the remainder being in public places such as the Old Market Square. The main noise worries appear to be at the Noel Street junction where two lines diverge and it is this junction which is the cause of the majority of the complaints. Some local residents have spoken to the Nottingham Evening Post saying that the noise and vibrations have recently got so bad that tiles have fallen down off the roof and that the problem isn't only the trams on the track but is also partly the use of the bell at the junction. The other main area for concern is in Cinderhill where fencing has recently been erected to help protect from the noise. Despite these noise concerns the Nottingham Tram Consortium have said that they have only received 25 complaints about the noise in the past year. Mike Casebourne, Project Director, said "we're pretty sure we're going to wind up insulating half a dozen properties near the Noel Street crossing and a couple of homes where Noel Street joins Gladstone Street." The cost would be around £16,000. "
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Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:00 pm

Quote "Despite these noise concerns the Nottingham Tram Consortium have said that they have only received 25 complaints about the noise in the past year."

A deluge on the scale of the Army deafness claims will arise here, even if they are quite silent. My concern would be that the double glazing could be PVC on a lot of historical properties
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Postby niall murphy » Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:13 pm

I live close to a the Cork-Dublin mainline in Co Kildare. Trains are constantly passing at speeds up to 100mph(160kmph). I dont feel I should be compensated, nor do I think those close to tramlines should receive extra money because someone chose to provide them with a top class transport system on their doorstep
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Postby Barry Long » Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:09 pm

Originally posted by niall murphy
I live close to a the Cork-Dublin mainline in Co Kildare. Trains are constantly passing at speeds up to 100mph(160kmph). I dont feel I should be compensated, nor do I think those close to tramlines should receive extra money because someone chose to provide them with a top class transport system on their doorstep


Irish Rail is notorious for its infrequency. There are no passenger services between 9pm and 6am. Your house could not be as promximate to the railtrack as it would be were you living along the section of LUAS between Fourtcourts and Jervis.

Go down there yourself; take a look at the track alignment (beside the footpaths adjacent to people's front doors) and it will dawn on you that the trams will indeed make life intolerable for residents of this section of Line A
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Postby emf » Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:36 pm

How much has the value of their houses increased because of their proximity to the Luas.
Lets sum the compensation they are claiming with the increase in value of their houses and whichever is greater either side pays the other!!!!!!!!!
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