carlisle pier shortlist

carlisle pier shortlis

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:06 pm

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Postby PVC King » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:28 pm

Thanks Paul,

I'd been looking for these pics last week and couldn't find them anywhere.

The two foreign submissions really are streets ahead of their blander rivals.

It is so hard to choose between them, I think the Skidmore proposal could be better but it is very hard to tell without seeing the cladding in more detail. It really has a gehry feel to it.

But either way the city is going to be a lot better off of Dunlaoire gets either of these two proposals.
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Postby phil » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:38 pm

There could be alot of public opposition to the winning project, depending on how much authentic public space and usage is included in the proposal. There is alot of disquiet amongst some of the residents of Dun Laoghaire over the way the Pavillion site was developed. In that case a public park was given over for development in return for public facilities. As is evident from the outcome, public facilities come at a high price.
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Postby Blain » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:39 pm

Do Scott Tallon Walker ever design anything that isn't in box form? Do they employ primary school kids to do all their work for them or something?
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Postby shadow » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:56 pm

Catch 22 - Awards ups wrong thread
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Postby shadow » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:00 pm

By the way the HengPeng illustration is particularly crude with poor attempt to resolve the photoshop photo pasteup at the base.
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Postby PVC King » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:00 pm

I agree

There is no way that two of the four entries shortlisted would have got this far without previous awards.
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Postby garethace » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:34 pm

Originally posted by shadow
By the way the HengPeng illustration is particularly crude with poor attempt to resolve the photoshop photo pasteup at the base.


It is nice to see a baddie shoved in now and again, it is more human. . .

Not everything should come up to spanking new and best Bolton Street/Queens/UCD best CADCO standards.

:-)

Be a very strange world if it did.

The best visualisation isn't the best visualisation - it is the 'good enough' visualisation - the same one that took 4 hours instead of 4 weeks, cost nothing and still got some of the point across.

What has happened to people nowadays, because freehand rendering has gone.

Everything has to be paid professional nowadays.... the most of that being done by Phillipinos in sweat shops now, under cutting prices over here. THey are brilliant at that in Asia - it is all the hours they spend glued to playstations.

Nasty, old world the CG visualisation thing is getting.
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Postby GregF » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:50 pm

The first 2 are quite striking ....the last 2 are just ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Typical of Scott Tallon Walker ...what a horrendous proposal.
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Postby garethace » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:14 pm

null
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Postby paul lite » Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:41 am

refering to the four pictures above... the top two are more interesting yes. as for the bottom two, bland and boring. it would be a waste if we saw either of the bottom two go up. the area is a good location for a landmark structure. let us hope that they make good use of the area and that the final results are something we can be proud of. you are right greg f when you say zzzzzzzzzz in relation to the last two pictures. lol
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Postby sw101 » Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:17 am

christ, i know its a pier and all the rest, but could anyone go beyond the concept of lashing a boatish structure up there?liebeskinds is predictable, merrills is too trendy (rip off of liebeskind) tallons is ghastly and too simplistic, and heneghan pengs looks underdeveloped. i'd say give it to them all for another 6 months and let them create a proper building.

and is it just me or does the side of merrills look like a grossly enlarged bitmap rather than windows and texture of any significance?
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Postby phil » Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:41 am

One of the submissions which was discarded had been modelled on an old style ship equiped with funnels and all!!! There was an article in the Irish Times outlining how they had requested information on why their project was disregarded!!
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Postby GrahamH » Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:09 pm

Is the sky in Dun Laoghaire like that all the time?
How about an overcast day and buildings speckled with seagull droppings...

The way Libeskind's rises from the water is very effective - immediately it's no longer a conventional pier.
It's impossible to differentiate between it and Skidmore & Co without more surface/material detail.
The worst aspect of Scott Tallon Walker's is the chunky conventional base, clad in granite no doubt.
What's to go into this pier, is the hotel still part of it?
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Postby PVC King » Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:57 pm

With this competition it must be remembered that the design competition forms only one part of a comprehensive urban renewal strategy.

The vision behind the Dunlaoirghe stategy was to use the Southern French model based upon seafront development.

An attempt to harness the leisure potential of the sea as catalyst for ancilliary development.

In this context I think both Liebskind and Skidmore have designed very good submissions. As they are both cutting edge modern while keeping an overall maritime theme.

The setting is traditional maritime and to design anything less striking would fail to give the building a landmark status.

Both designs are excellent and have highlighted the lack of ambition amongst some of the largest practices in Ireland.

Between the redevelopment of the park into the pavilions and this project Dunlaoighre is finally re-emerging is Dublins most important suburb.
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Postby phil » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:07 pm

Originally posted by Diaspora

Between the redevelopment of the park into the pavilions and this project Dunlaoighre is finally re-emerging is Dublins most important suburb.


Diaspora, I really think that the Pavillion is not as much of a good thing as you seem to think. The park, which as the town becomes more built up over the years would have served as an important public space, was obliterated for the benefit of what is mainly private gain. As I stated in an earlier reply to this thread, I really think that the lack of truly public facilities in this development is going to work against the development of the Carlisle Pier.
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Postby PVC King » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:18 pm

I am not normally in favour of the elimination of public spaces such as parks. But in the case of Dunlaoighre it is a well planned victorian town with an abundance of public open spaces.

The major mistakes that Dunlaoighre made over the past decade has been that DLRCC did not provide sufficient commercial space in the heart of Dunlaoire to provide a viable employment cluster.

The granting of permission for apartments at Salthill and the former harbour market site were critical errors. Both of these sites should have been zoned office and thus provided both a rates base and employment to support local businesses. In the absence of this Sandyford which is not well served by public transport has fullfilled this role. I would contend very badly.

I welcome the pavillion because it provided commercial space in what is an area with little or no development land remaining.

I do however agree that a substantial level of access to this project is essential. But as it stands the Carlisle pier provides 0% access and 0% amenity.

Both buildings appear quite flexible in their permissable use, it would of course be essential that public access be provided by way of observation space and I would imagine that any cafe would be a commercial success on an unprecedented scale.
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Postby phil » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:35 pm

I am not sure as to which spaces you are referring to, but for example the green space on front of the Royal Marine Hotel is highlighted in the latest development plan as being suitable for development. This is private land so the owners are entitled to do this as long as they get permission. My point about the Pavillion is that although the commercial space has been a success in uniting the town with the seafront, the building of the apartments as part of the overall scheme was an error in that it disposed of the green space which had the most potential for rejuvenation within the town.
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Postby PVC King » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:54 pm

The impatient developer is a dangerous thing, I agree that this was not the ideal spot for apartments, the pavillion as you pointed out united Dunlaoighre harbour with the town again.

Which was entirely necessary as the stock of buildings on Marine Road did little to attract pedestrian traffic.

I have seen similar schemes in other places although on a smaller scale and generally in much warmer climates.

They have all provided a high degree of public access as recreational retail tends to dominate this type building. It is for that reason that I am confident that access will not be a problem, as the rents acheivable from cafes and bars would exceed any other use.

I would imagine the only way to live in this scheme would be to arrange a long term rate in the inevitable hotel in the scheme. This space would be too expensive for large numbers of apartments.
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Postby PVC King » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:54 pm

With these computer skills I may even get a job designing the images for this competition:D
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Postby PVC King » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:55 pm

:o
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Postby PVC King » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:55 pm

;)
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Postby PVC King » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:55 pm

Very dodgy Computer
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Postby PVC King » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:55 pm

Dodgy Computer
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Postby PVC King » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:55 pm

Celeron 500
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