Coup d'Etat in An Taisce?

Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:32 pm

Quote "but he was trying to comment on inaccuricies with an taisce's policies(regarding planning cos i know disapora that ye do more stuff) and was quite rudely shouted down several times"

The bloke who kept on going on about the website?
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Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:10 pm

http://www.antaisce.org/campaigns/policy_statements/rural_built_environment.pdf

Above is the An Taisce rural development policy.

The contentious point was the following "statistics compiled by the DOE from ESB connections indicate theat we are now (foisting) errecting 50 new houses in the countryside per day. 36% of new housing is now in the countryside. Of this 80-90% is one off"

Quote " Of this 80-90% is one off"

Therefore I suggest that our archeaolist freind Mr Caulfield dig a large hole for himself and cover it until he learns how to read english.

Apart from that I thought it was a good program, the farmer from Ballyhaunis did very well as did the planner and Our own Frank Corcoran.

But Caulfield and The rep from the sustainability something really displayed how much more mature this debate has come in recent years.

And O'Cuiv complimenting Ashling and the Blue flag scheme wonders will never cease!!!!!!!
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Postby FIN » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 pm

yeah! she was away with the fairies..the girl form sustainability something... probably lives in leitrim and dreams of catching clouds!!!!! the guy didn't have much to say other than the web-site in fairness.... kinda of a no brainer..and an archeologist...it didn't say i think... i wonder how frank corcoran would do if there were actual architect's etc people there and not for the most part dimwits...
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Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:54 pm

Quote "... probably lives in leitrim and dreams of catching clouds"

Talking about lotto ads get herself and yourman in the ad featuring the punter in the jeep who wants to develop 'carparks' together for a debate it would make great television ;)
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Postby FIN » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:59 pm

lots of tv's would probably be shot.... jeez she was bad and as i said earlier she said one interesting point and that was to rebuke o' cuiv...
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Postby GrahamH » Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:48 pm

She didn't get a chance to develop any of her points, except when she was rebuking O' Cuiv that time.
Frank did well, much better than last time, although as usual there wasn't enough time to develop points, he spent most of it simply trying to clear up statistical issues rather than putting AT's policies across. In fact, I don't think in th whole half hour did he have a chance to put forward an AT policy and explain it.
O' Cuiv - what a fool, he makes me boil with rage "Oh well we keep building more roads and infrastructure in Dublin & the East and are getting nowhere so I think it's time rural Ireland got the resources for improved infrasructure"
???? YOU'RE THE ONES IN GOVERNMENT! YOU'RE THE ONES NOT GETTING US ANYWHERE IN THE EAST!
And that most ludicrous of remarks I've ever heard in my life - one he's made before - in relation to the fact one off housing generates car dependancy "Well Dublin is choked with cars with wall to wall traffic, so we in Dublin aren't ones to talk"
Oh of course, so rural Ireland has some catching up to do has it?
How pathetic.

As usual Prime Time failed miserably in the presentation stakes - I was wondering as I watched how many of the 400,000 viewers or so had any idea of what a one-off house is, what it looks like, or indeed what a septic tank is, and the effects they have, esp when not working.
These issues should have been cleared up at the start with an explanitary report. Television is a visual medium, something RTE have yet to cop on to. The debate may have well as been on radio.
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Postby Non-Taiscist » Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:40 pm

Taisce did well on PT, for the first time in a long while, (i) by being courteous (ii) speaking in non-doctrinaire tones and (iii) reminding the folks at home that Taisce supports policies actually adopted by govt and local govt.

For the first time I thought that the thin argument arguing for Lego dwellings partout had been exposed.
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Postby GrahamH » Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:19 pm

Agreed.

Six people was too many though, four contributors would have allowed for a more comprehensive and focused debate, and considering anyone with the slightest interest in this issue was largely concerned with what Frank had to say, it was a shame he didn't have enough time other than to largely defend AT.

If householders were still paying rates, this issue would be a lot different - the idea that people would be paying for the supplying of water and maintance of roads for others to live in their 'fancy piles in the hills' would get the rent-a-crowd and bin charges lobby out like a shot.

And many of these one-off people are the same ones complaining about the centralisation of hospital services and centres of excellence, and how difficult it will be to get to them.
If people were living reasonably close together, infrastructure servicing these areas could be improved dramatically.
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Postby PVC King » Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:28 pm

I agree entirely.

People can be very shortsighted. They are paying for it in income taxes.

What were the tax rates before residential rates were abolished by CJ in 1977?

A lot lower than after 1977 I'd imagine.

Not that property taxes are a good thing, but subsidising one particular group in a way that doesn't deliver societal or economic benefits isn't very well thought out.

Section 23 and section 27 were great because they directed investment into the places where investment was most needed.

If someone said in 1977 that McCann Fitz would be moving from Amiens St to JR quay, they'd have been committed to Dundrum.

Yet some would argue that an equivelent number of urban dwellersa should be subsidised to build trophey homes in the sticks each week.
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Postby Devin » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:23 am

Fin said: "on prime time last night a big discussion on an taisce"

Get your act together Fin!! Thursday's Prime Time was a special on one-off housing, featuring a report, followed by a studio discussion with a panel of six people, one of whom was from An Taisce.

Yes, the usual bungalow defenders (O'Cuiv, Caulfield) didnt come off very well this time. They tried the usual tactics against An Taisce, attacking "its" policies, but Frank Corcoran just calmly and clearly reiterated that An T. simply apply Government policy (contained in the National Spatial Strategy) and that - he was trying to get this in but Miriam O'Callaghan kept talking over him - Government policy is in turn based on European environmental legislation that Ireland has signed up to.

Rachael Kenny (former IPI president) is now a senior planner in Meath County Council so she probably wasn't the best person to be there for obvious reasons (you can be sure she was told what she can and can't say).

Emer O'Siochru (somebody described as a hippy) is a well-respected architect who's been working in the area of built heritage for many years.

As for that guy from 'Council for the West' (another IRDA by the sound of things), what can you say? There's no problem with what's happening to the countryside as far as these people are concerned, and the already lax rules on the plonking of large pattern-book bungalows everywhere should be completely relaxed.

I wonder if he saw the piece in the Irish Independent on the 2nd of Janary titled 'Top composer decries new plans to allow one-off houses'?

It said:

'Composer Andrew Lloyd Webber, who has a home in this country, has criticised government plans which will allow thousands of one-off houses to be built in the countryside.

The composer of Cats and Phantom of the Opera told the Irish Independent that Ireland's landscape was already marred by some of the most "hideous and inappropriate housing anywhere in the world" and that he was "gobsmacked" that regulations would be changed to allow thousands of one-off houses to be built.

Mr Llyod Webber said he realised there were few things more infuriating than "some outsider pontificating about the affairs of another country. But I plead a huge affection for Ireland and it grieves me to see such a special landscape besmirched by houses that have absolutely no sympathy for local vernacular architecture whatsoever", he said yesterday......'
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Postby FIN » Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:31 pm

Originally posted by Devin
Get your act together Fin!! Thursday's Prime Time was a special on one-off housing, featuring a report, followed by a studio discussion with a panel of six people, one of whom was from An Taisce.


well i am sorry. i shall try to get my act together in the future.... and really give a crap.

Originally posted by Devin

Yes, the usual bungalow defenders (O'Cuiv, Caulfield) didnt come off very well this time. They tried the usual tactics against An Taisce, attacking "its" policies, but Frank Corcoran just calmly and clearly reiterated that An T. simply apply Government policy (contained in the National Spatial Strategy) and that - he was trying to get this in but Miriam O'Callaghan kept talking over him - Government policy is in turn based on European environmental legislation that Ireland has signed up to..


were watching the one on rte 1 ????? if so i must have seen a different one.

Originally posted by Devin

Emer O'Siochru (somebody described as a hippy) is a well-respected architect who's been working in the area of built heritage for many years...


i have never heard of her...well-respected where???? and i called her a hippy because she came across as one.

Originally posted by Devin

Mr Llyod Webber said he realised there were few things more infuriating than "some outsider pontificating about the affairs of another country.


is not the spokesman for an taisce(definately here anyway) not of similiar heritage as loyld webber? and yes there is nothing more infuriating

Originally posted by Devin
But I plead a huge affection for Ireland and it grieves me to see such a special landscape besmirched by houses that have absolutely no sympathy for local vernacular architecture whatsoever", he said yesterday......'

from his large mansion no doubt.

oh! i found this and thought of you....
Attachments
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Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:07 pm

Fin,

Should that image not be titled 'ignoring sustainability in the sticks?'
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Postby Devin » Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:23 am

Just to reiterate, Prime Time last Thursday week was about one-off housing, not An Taisce. That's important.

Don't shoot the messenger.
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Postby Devin » Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:23 am

Just to reiterate, Prime Time last Thursday week was about one-off housing, not An Taisce. That's important.

Don't shoot the messenger.
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Postby Devin » Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:23 am

Just to reiterate, Prime Time last Thursday week was about one-off housing, not An Taisce. That's important.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Edit: 'I've no idea why this post appeared 3 times, I must have pressed something by accident - Devin' :end edit.
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Postby notjim » Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:10 am

so there was a coup after all?
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Postby PVC King » Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:25 pm

Originally posted by notjim
so there was a coup after all?


In the spelling department?
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Postby FIN » Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:23 am

minister of env giving out about you lot again disapora...what did you do now?
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Postby notjim » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:41 pm

i'm dyslexic, what can you do?
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Postby PVC King » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:57 pm

Originally posted by FIN
minister of env giving out about you lot again disapora...what did you do now?


I really don't know I'm on to a new asignment but I'd say at a guess that Cullen was on about the third of four motorwars scheduled to cross Co Meath. I think ur man had an italian name vincenzo s... something or other.
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