Gardens for Cars?

Gardens for Cars?

Postby phil » Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:03 pm

In recent years gardens (particularly suburban gardens) have become havens for cars. When it comes to older houses, is there any rules which govern the conversion of gardens into car parks. I am not simply talking about widening an already existing driveway or entrance, I am talking about the total destruction of gardens by asphalt and the total removal of the perimeters of gardens. Houses designated as “protected structures” are the ones of most interest in this regard. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Phil
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:09 pm

There was a guidance document published by DCC upto about 2001. Called carparking in front gardens.

It made a lot of sense.
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Postby phil » Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:59 pm

Is there any direct control with regards to the surroundings of protected structures? Or is it just advice or guidance that is given?
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:05 pm

Yes,

On what would have been referred to as List One structures pre 2000, everything within the curtilage is protected.

If you have access to Bolton St library there is a very good paper by Yvonne Scannell that deals with the topic.

Car parking extends to a change of use in residential areas at the very least, so it does require consent.
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Postby phil » Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:08 pm

Thanks for that. I sometimes think that guidance documents are simply ignored.
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Postby ewanduffy » Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:43 pm

Originally posted by Diaspora
Car parking extends to a change of use in residential areas at the very least, so it does require consent.


Could the refusal of permission be seen as a cynical attempt at revenue generation by DCC in the form of resiendent's parking permits?
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:52 pm

Not really I don't think that the executive planners at DCC look at residential parking permit revenues at a strategic level.

But I will concede that the disk-parking section have their own agenda. One sees things such as disc parking creeping onto dedicated cylce lanes etc.

But what I think Phil was refering to is situations where people take down their front perimeters, then place asphalt or gravel on to the majority of their often small front gardens.

To the detriment of the amenity value of their property and the surrounding properties, hence people aren't happy.

Many properties can accomodate off street parking because there is sufficient curtilage to provide enough landscaping to allow the garden retain the sense that it is a garden.

I am highly suspicious of people who consult neither architect nor planning department.
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Postby phil » Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:31 pm

I suppose I am interested in it as I feel it points to the cultural significance of the car in our society. Obviously I think people are entitled to do pretty much as they please in their own front garden, but it is still disappointing to see , say, one garden in a terrace being gutted. There is also the situation where a terrace of houses has a common area on front of their houses instead of individual gardens and on of the houses decides to replace the section on front of their property with tarmac. It ruins the unity of the terrace.
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Postby GrahamH » Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:17 am

I agree, it's everywhere.
There were property owners on the radio recently ranting over this (I didn't hear it), about the fact the CC weren't letting them remove railings and tarmac their gardens for second cars because their houses were listed.
Good to see the guildlines being implemented.
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Postby Harry » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:11 am

Would the CC also have a problem with people who remove the lawn and pave the garden, but not for a car?

Some people simply prefer not to have the "traditional" (sometimes tiny!) lawn for a number of reasons apart from carparking.
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Postby phil » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:34 am

As I said Harry, I think people really have a right to do as they please with their garden. However I think it is taking it a little far when two houses which are owned by the same group have their gardens completely covered in tarmac and the walls removed only to be replaced by 'renta fence' like you would see around a concert or enclosing christmas trees. This happened recently near me and they do not seem to be a temporary solution.
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Postby PVC King » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:44 pm

First piece of advice in the DCC guide was to seek the advice of an architect.

Second was to consult with the planning department.

A little fundamental to any development I would think.

Many people bring in the landscape gardners to rearrange gardens, lawns are a bit of an endangered species these days. But the right paving surrounded by the right shrubs can actually serve to increase the amenity value.

Car parking relates to a change of use, therefore professional designers and planners should assess the benefits.
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Postby PVC King » Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:29 pm

Has anyone any ideas as to how large a garden needs to be to accomodate cars and retain the sense that it is a garden?

Also what materials are generally best as a paving surface for a typical period suburban house.
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Postby garethace » Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:17 pm

Not a bad idea for a thread actually, just thought I would include this link about Dutch Suburban architecture.

http://www.planetizen.com/news/item.php?id=11868

You have to register at NYT.
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Postby garethace » Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:34 pm

Ever think we will see developments like this one in Australia, going up in our leafy suburbs guys. Some examples by design strategies, urban projects etc. But they are still rather thin on the ground me thinks.

Link here
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Postby PVC King » Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:03 pm

For the registered

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/15/garden/15HOLL.html

I like subdivision 10 it appears to be a very pleasant residential environment. No surprise that it is in Holland.

Definitely a case of out of sight out of mind, you'd never know the residents might even walk 100 metres to buy a litre of milk.
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Postby PVC King » Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:26 pm

And registration is free not like the Irish Times and Indo.

I like the FT they allow about 90% of their articles to be accessed without subscription for about three days. After that you need subscription for access.

Banner ads thats where the cash is at me thinks. :D
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Postby garethace » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:20 pm

A couple of the American newspapers allow you to visit the article once, and then you come up against a notice saying you have to subscribe. Which is a great idea I think, since you can still access any new articles once, and copy/paste or something, if you don't want to pay.

It would work economically from the newspapers point of view, since it dramatically cuts down the broadband bandwidth bills they would have to pay from people continually accessing articles, but at the same time allow customers to read/browse an article at least once.
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Postby PVC King » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:25 pm

With the size of hard drives these days you can also save hundreds of them before they become a problem.

Had a good read this evening gm+ad Challenging contextualism are you familiar with that one?
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Postby garethace » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:51 pm

Post a link I will have a look.

BTW, on my line of thought in relation to wide open spaces, public space and generally things like convention centres, I think this thread here at CGA, goes some distance to showing up my point again - that notion of how people exist within a much wider exterior open spatial environment with nature and building coming together somewhat.

Examples of architects who have dealt with it, Alto in Finland, or even Jefferson in USA.

http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=next_topic;f=4;t=000123;go=newer

Another nice image here, I thought you may like.

http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000460

dunno. :-)
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Postby garethace » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:04 pm

Sort of a clash of very modern and old going on here. Any opinions?

http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000456

Can be a hard thing to do with a visual - to suggest something new and old together. I think the artist made a good stab at it.
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Postby PVC King » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:30 pm

I'd have to post the book unfortunately. A little coffee table in format but some good stuff in it all the same.
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Postby garethace » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:37 pm

I like this image too for some reason. Dunno, this Total War stuff is beginning to do something for me. :-)
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Postby garethace » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:43 pm

Who called these lot for their dinner? :-)

http://www.totalwar.com/community/vikingsp8.htm
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Postby garethace » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:50 pm

what i am just trying to get to, is what did places like Terenure and Glasnevin look like, when some of the Georgian terraces were originally conceived, but man's major means of transport was a personally or borrowed old nag?

Something similar to the urban cowboys today? :-)

http://www.totalwar.com/community/bat8.htm

There is a project in Fluid Spaces publication for a horse centre in Tallaght actually.

can't resist linking this, for the shere attempt at creating an old city.

http://www.totalwar.com/community/rp12.htm

Possibly covered in rubbish modern development now.
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