an taisce-and rumours of them going bust

an taisce-and rumours of them going bust

Postby FIN » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:10 am

hi all,

seemingly it has been on the radio this morning about an taisce running into financial difficulty and may be going bust soon. did anyone hear this and what exactly is going on? i believe they are letting staff go soon and may have to close offices after that
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:16 am

My sister got rang at home to fire her. They didnt have the balls or the courtesy to invite her into the office but I wouldnt have expected anything less




An Taisce forced to cut senior staff due to financial problems
Iva Pocock



An Taisce, the country's largest environmental organisation, has told two
of its key staff members of its inability to continue their employment due
to financial difficulties.

The Irish Times has also learned that Earthwatch Ltd, the Irish branch of
the international organisation Friends of the Earth, has ceased trading
after 18 years of existence.

Mr John Bowler, who was employed as An Taisce's head of public affairs just
four months ago, confirmed last night that he had received a letter from the
organisation yesterday morning saying his employment would end at the end of
the month.

"It's a sorry state of affairs that there isn't more funding going to
environmental organisations," he said.

Ms Shirley Clerkin, the An Taisce natural environment officer since 2000,
also confirmed last night that she has been told of the "inability" of the
organisation to employ her as of the end of the month due to "serious
financial difficulties".

An Taisce has a core staff of seven. The chairwoman of An Taisce, Ms
Stephanie Bourke, could not be contacted for comment last night. An Taisce's
funding comes from membership fees, fundraising, and occasional research
grants.

According to a spokesperson for the Department of Environment, Heritage and
Local Government, An Taisce also received ? 63,000 per annum for three years
from 2001 to help fulfil its role as a "prescribed body" under planning
legislation.

However that funding ended last year, the spokesperson confirmed last night.
But she said future funding was "under consideration."

Meanwhile Mr Malcolm Noonan, a former board member of Earthwatch, confirmed
it has ceased trading.

Until last April it had one full-time employee as a supervisor of a
Community Employment scheme overseeing 11 part-time workers, but the
organisation then lost this scheme.
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Postby FIN » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:20 am

sorry to hear about ur sister paul, and yea. i wouldn't expect anything better from them either...
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Postby alan d » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:27 am

Hey Diaspora, can "Gobshite" be a collective noun............ or should it be "Gobshites"?
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Postby FIN » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:32 am

lol....
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:23 pm

Paul,

The letting go of your sister was considered by all bar one a gross and grevious error. I only met S once and I would have to say that her current stance regarding a return is entirely vindicated.

J Bowler resigned for reasons unknown to me so I can't comment. Other than to say I hope John reconsiders his decision.

Regarding An Taisce going Bankraupt dream on.

It will never happen

Running an NGO in Ireland is a risky endeavour at any time but particularly so when government grants are cut.

The real stregnth of An Taisce is its membership who still have a very acute sense of all that is wrong in the Irish planning process. Remember to keep the new barn at the CityWest Hotel in view costs money.
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Postby d_d_dallas » Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:39 pm

Quote: "The real stregnth of An Taisce is its membership who still have a very acute sense of all that is wrong in the Irish planning process"

I'm not saying the planning process is correct - but just because the members of AT *think something* doesn't mean they are right.
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Postby FIN » Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:46 pm

absolutely.
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:48 pm

Accepted being a member of any organisatio or company does not make anyone fundamentally right on any issue.

But many of An Taisce's members are Built and Natural environment professionals, so they would bring expertise from other areas.

The strucuture of the organisation ensures that planning interventions are only made where a number of people reach concensus that a development would constitute good or bad planning.

No An Taisce would increase the risk of 'loose cannons' objecting to projects on far less structured grounds.
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Postby FIN » Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:52 pm

increase the risk. what is to stop them now...and to be honest an taisce r seen as loose cannons with nobody to answer too. but now we see that dependance on grants from the government seems to be the answer
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:52 pm

Fin would the absolutely relate to the illegally commenced conference centre in city west?

I would suspect so in your case
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:55 pm

Keeping an eye on architects that ignore planning guidelines and do what their clients want.

I have always suspected you to be in that school of thought.

Yes Sir

Three blocks full?

Of Course
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Postby FIN » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:06 pm

guidelines are exactly what it says...it is a guide not regulations...and besides...what a client wants is basically what we are here for
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:16 pm

If you went to ten stock brokers and asked what the reurns would be on a tailored equity portfolio they would all come up with roughly the same figure give or take 2% per year.

County Develpoment plans also have limits as to the scale of development and the type of development the plan are based upon the consideration of the elected representitives and professional planners appointed by the state.

When particular clients go to particular architects all of that consideration is conveniently ignored. No aspirtion is directed at the vast majority of architects.

By who?
second rate architects who do not possess the skills or vision to work within the consensus poarameters.

Developers will only develop based on the professional advice they receive.

So the Barn at the City West hotel is OK?

You would have signed it off because it would constitute a meal ticket?
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Postby FIN » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:22 pm

if that's what i was getting paid to do then i would have to say yes i would ... just because it disagrees with my architectural vision doesn't mean i shoot myself in the foot. and if it was only for a meal ticket i wouldn't get out of bed... it is all fine and good having these high opinions but we all bow down to money. and just because they are guidlines doesn't mean the have to be followed to the letter. if it's good architecture and beneficial to the area it will get through.
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:31 pm

No we don't all bow down to money Fin

If you are so concerned about money, why aren't you doing nixers instead of glorifying in the short-term pain of an NGO?

If every architect bowed to money there would be no "good architecture"

Because low spec "signed Off" plans deliver better returns.

I have always found that one gets more respect by taking a stand.

The progression opportunities for Yes Men are about as limited as their vision

Ring any bells?
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Postby Non-Taiscist » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:58 pm

An T have only themselves to blame for their finances. In England the National Trust is (no pun) trusted. In Ireland, An Taisce is not trusted. It is seen as the private recreation of the affluent and an enemy of the people.

"Too high", "too near", "too red", "we can still see it", "we know you've done a nice job but we woulda done a better one", "save the castle, I mean the wall", "no development here, because since the Fir Bolg there's been a field" etc etc.

We know that An T do some good work, but if they're going to have any respect, they'll have to bring us commoners with them, and give some vision as to what they stand for, as opposed to against.
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:18 pm

Not trusted by whom?

People who create a new identity to attack them?

To state that the NT in the UK are more respected is probably true, they the Country's biggest landowner and provide hundreds of natural environment for free public admission.

What An Taisce stands for is being "A Champion for Quality of Life"

What they are against are anything that compromises the quality of life.

As for elitism I suggestthat you examine the English NT your paragon of virtue.

You are clueless and anonomous,

unlike the typical people of Ireland who possess far more vision the green schools programme will ensure that ignorance on your scale should become a thing of the past as the An Taisce vision is outlined in an ever increasing number of schools

http://www.antaisce.org
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Postby alan d » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:32 pm

"clueless and anonomous", eh Diaspora?

arrange these words into a well known saying or phrase:

black......kettle.......pot......the.......calling.

http://www.antaisce.aaargh
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Postby Non-Taiscist » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:37 pm

Thank you, Diaspora, I now see the error of my ways.

Look: for as long as you're going to talk down to those with 'ignorant' views, you are not engaging with the holders of those views. You merely communicate your prejudices about and disdain for those people.

QED
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:37 pm

just like to point out that "Non-Taiscist" has never posted here before and are not a current member reregistered as diaspora seems to think....
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Postby GregF » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:45 pm

There was a fine building that stood on High Street just a few metres down from Tailors Hall, An Taisce's HQ. It was the former AIB Bank (beside MRCB paints) and dates from Victorian or Edwardian times. I'm sure it had a fine interior too and it had survived the Corpo's inane road widening schemes of the past.
I was very saddened to see at Christmas that it had been gutted with only the facade remaining. I suppose it will be transformed into appartments or offices. I did'nt read or hear any objections from An Taisce!
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Postby PVC King » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:51 pm

Not accepted Alan,

If most of the names on this site are exmined Peter Fitzpatrick is about the only real name that springs to mind.

Diaspora is a description and a concept not a full frontal assualt on an organisation, this persona is used in all the contributions made on this site both possitive and negative

And I am not talking anyone with ignorant views down, merely stating that it is all a bit convenient that this 'persona' adopted arrived at this particular time with no location, interests, e-mail, or other profiling details.

The issues are architectural, I have engaged those in spades and will continue to do so.

There are particular opinions that I will never accept such as property values being more important than urban grain.

I find that this opinion being sold on an architectural website all the more bizarre.

Really Sorry I forgot to mention Graham Hickey
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Postby sw101 » Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:12 pm

paul clerkin? if thats a nickname its a weird one. rita ochoa too. andrew duffy....... doozer?

why diaspora anyway? are you jewish?
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Postby FIN » Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:14 pm

i was out on site and i missed all this fun!!!! let me see!!!!hmmmmm... ok..sometimes it is necessary to sign off buildings as a matter of business...if u were actually doing architecture u would understand this instead of a professional objector.... i am far from a yes man and there are definately no bells ringing.
nicely said non-taiscist..... and not trusted by anyone...i think that the term "private recreation of the affluent" is relevant as an taisce certainly does not represent even a significant minority in this country. it's elitist and with some very backwark looking views of architecture.
"What An Taisce stands for is being "A Champion for Quality of Life"" i found this particularly funny!!!! lol.
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