Cathedrals of Commerce

Postby garethace » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:26 pm

yeah, I will buy that - then you would create something similar to the throngs of office working people who daily march from Baggot St, Pembroke St and Fitzwilliam Sq, Lesson St etc along in front of the Shelbourne over toward Grafton St, and back again. Could be very interesting.

Hey, we are being talked about!

What should really alarm us is that our capacity to so adapt is being eroded by a different kind of competition--the other pincer of the claw--as cities in other developed countries transform themselves into magnets for higher value-added industries. Cities from Sydney to Brussels to Dublin to Vancouver are fast becoming creative-class centers to rival Boston, Seattle, and Austin.
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Postby phil » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:34 pm

Garethace, where is that last quote from?
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Postby garethace » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:38 pm

Richard Florida article, the man himself:

Click on 'article', it is linked.

Creative Class War

How the GOP's anti-elitism could ruin America's economy.


In effect, for the first time in our history, we're saying to highly mobile and very finicky global talent, "You don't belong here."


I guess that is how Dublin has scored recently. So what Dispora is saying about commerce and the built environment isn't a thousand million miles away from the truth.

we are popular with Florida aren't we now?

For several years now, my colleagues and I have been measuring the underlying factors common to those American cities and regions with the highest level of creative economic growth. The chief factors we've found are: large numbers of talented individuals, a high degree of technological innovation, and a tolerance of diverse lifestyles. Recently my colleague Irene Tinagli of Carnegie Mellon and I have applied the same analysis to northern Europe, and the findings are startling. The playing field is much more level than you might think. Sweden tops the United States on this measure, with Finland, the Netherlands, and Denmark close behind. The United Kingdom and Belgium are also doing well. And most of these countries, especially Ireland, are becoming more creatively competitive at a faster rate than the United States.
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Postby garethace » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:54 pm

Null
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Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:42 pm

Quote "Cities from Sydney to Brussels to Dublin to Vancouver are fast becoming creative-class centers to rival Boston, Seattle, and Austin. They're doing it through a variety of means--from government-subsidized labs to partnerships between top local universities and industry"

Fact: Between MIT and Harvard campus start ups have created over 1m high end jobs in IT and Biotech alone.

Dublin is not in the same league for three reasons

1. Lack of access to Venture capital

2. Chronic infrastructural deifit notably road and air freight

3. Lack of suitable prestige buildings or buildings capable of serving as top flight corporate headquarters.

The tallest proposed building for Dublin was a 32 storey block of flats, the application was not even considered because it wasn't completed correctly. It should never have been considered as a runner where it was proposed.

There is no doubt Brian that Bio-tech and IT and the development of top-flighters in these fields hold the key.

But in practice this country's industrial strategy has run out of ideas. The infrastructural support is not being given to the existing leaders such Intel or Schering Plough.

AMD has just invested $3.2bn in Dresden had the right infrastructure been in place it could and should have come here. :mad:
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Postby garethace » Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:43 pm

Some more on Biotech etc, expect real tech stuff from this forum. . . real investor points of views etc, etc, etc

http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105069202

notice the mention in the article, about the creative classes in music industry too - which ireland has sort of had for a while - U2 comp etc, etc.

Home time! Bye.
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Postby PVC King » Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:31 pm

I liked that article on biotech, no-one can plan for that type of decsion all the same.

I found a new investment in Healthcare in Ireland today though,

Forty new jobs created in Co Meath
Forty new jobs will be created in Ashbourne in Co Meath. The Minister for State, Ivor Callely, said the jobs would be created at Kilbrew Demesne - a health care facility which will provide both short and long-term nursing and residential care.

http://www.rte.ie/news/newsinbrief.html

As I said yesterday the industrial policy has definitely run out of ideas when this type of project makes the news.

Whats next IDA grants for a co-operative selling the Evening Herald at traffic lights?
PVC King
 

Postby PVC King » Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:31 pm

Cross posting ;)
PVC King
 

Postby garethace » Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:22 pm

Now many new jobs in new wtc? Or old ones for that matter? Terrorism is the anchillaise heel of these developments these days.

http://www.renewnyc.com/plan_des_dev/wtc_site/new_design_plans/firm_c/indv_2.asp.htm

This couple of pics here, tends to emphasise the scale of what we are talking about too. Not in a good way, but a very representational way, no less.

http://www.renewnyc.com/PhotoArchive/timeline.shtml.htm

Libeskind VIZ-ualist

Fraternal towers.

http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10464

Number 51?

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/06/1075854028808.html
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Postby garethace » Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:30 pm

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Postby garethace » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:33 pm

Outsourcing, the big issue in States.

Click: Anyhow, if you care to wander over to the Americas now, a post which got an interesting response, about Jobs, outsourcing, presidential elections etc, etc, etc.

Just avoid the 'Norm' Chomsky bit . . :)

Good post here:

Well i think one of the reasons this is big news during this election is because the economy has come back strong but the jobs are not coming with it. Common scapegoat is outsourcing. I cant say it isnt a factor but I cant imagine we have shipped off 10 million jobs in 3 years. Not impossible I suppose but I cant imagine it.

If the jobs start to come around then this issue will be moot.


Dunno what economics is about, but this paragraph gives you some idea, how global the whole thing really has become.

China and Japan are holding the price of the $ up with tons of buying of the $ and in the case of china, pinning the currency to the $. China's banking system is not yet good enough to handle a floating currency. Regardless, China is growing too fast right now to be sustained. Within a few years they will be forced to change their exchange rate with the $ one way or another.
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Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:41 pm

I think everyone was dumbstruck by Bush's claim that US corporates shipping jobs to China and India was good for the US economy.

http://www.onbusiness.ie/2004/0217/cardinal.html

More specifically "However, the company said that it has become clear that its strategy to grow its global business through acquisitions is more favourable and successful that constructing a new facility."

Mergers and acquisitions are back with a vengence this year as depressed prices make them cheaper than new build.

I am still bullish on the GDA if not the rest of the country, it can offer a lot of most of the qualities of London at quite a substantial discount to employers.

London, New York, Singapore and Tokyo are really pulling away as quality world cities in recent years. Places like Frankfurt and Paris are becoming ever more secondary in this globalised game.

If Dublin got its act together with a decent Metro and a few landmark office developments in the docklands it could capitalise on the next wave of mobile capital. Which is really chomsky talk I know but there are always winners as well as losers in every game. :rolleyes:

But if you don't invest your not at the table, Sandyford will never attract serious front office operations :confused:
PVC King
 

Postby garethace » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:53 pm

It is a very scary but real, real, real world out their, of commerce, banking and trading services. Especially when you read something like this post:

http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=115059056
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Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:04 pm

A very negative view of the situation.

I don't agree with any of it except that the extent of the deficit is worrying and needs correction. Which is very hard to do in an election year without damaging the feel good factor.

Indicators such as the Philedelphia Semiconductor index are showing resilience and Dell released record numbers last week.

The problem I see is a lack of investment on this side of the pond. :mad:
PVC King
 

Postby garethace » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:16 pm

Absolutely, a total 'doom' theory if ever there was one.

God forbid, anyone could claim to simply economics down to that level.

But interesting just to contemplate in another way.
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Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:20 pm

Going on that there are'nt enough troops to engage in brush fire control. Not even Joe Higgins would go that far!!!!!!!!!
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Postby garethace » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:24 pm

Troops, hmmmm.... at least they have issues. We have bin taxes and smoking bans. :(
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Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:40 pm

But back to the point, it could be argued that there are great simularities between 1994 and 2004 for the Irish property/construction scene.

There is a bit of vacancy a lot of infrastructural works and the house building sector dominating. Investment is slow but another good year in the US and it could speed up dramatically.

The problem is that unlike 1994 the economy is unable to attract the lower value jobs such as customer service call centres for hotels etc.

The one thing that the economy still has is the lowest corporation tax in the OECD and tarriff free entry to the worlds largest economy (EU) The hope is that companies that anticipate a highly profitable process will locate here. However I doubt that the Sandyford lifestyle is likely to attract the professionals to work in these industries/professional services.

A mixed use high-quality urban quarter is required, if growth is to be delivered.
PVC King
 

Postby garethace » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:05 pm

Perhaps you can shed some light upon something for me here. For years in this country we have done the typical irish thing - just provide a very, very limited amount of office space in Georgian terraces in Dublin city. Which haven't changed since the 1800s.

Then when a shortage of office space comes about, what do we do? Yeah, you've guessed it, exactly the same thing as we done with houses - put up the price and keep out the bottom bracket of course. So office space, like residential accomodation achieves this class status like everything else in this country. Everything about Ireland, is tiny in scale and very expensive to boot.
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Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:16 pm

Quote "just provide a very, very limited amount of office space in Georgian terraces in Dublin city. Which haven't changed since the 1800s."

The advent of the Commercial Chambers in Edwardian times broke the stranglehold of Georgian Dublins grip on office space.

Culturally 'Commerce' wasn't really respectable until the 1920 as such. These chambers became much more widespread in the 1920's as buildings suchas the Burton Buildings and Shamrock Chambers opened on Dame St and 19 College Green or Pen corner opened also during this decade.

Prior to this Lawyers hung out in the 4 courts or incorporated law Society and practiced from home. There was no real auditing process but more tax collected. Banks were fortressess and all thew stock brokers were within a block of Anglesea St.
Industrial giants such as Guiness's had their offices on the production site.

The Bull run in US equities between 1925-29 changed all that as greed became fashionable in public for the first time.

De Velera's economic policies protected the built heritage until about the 1960's when supplying mohair suits became the best earner in town.
PVC King
 

Postby garethace » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:23 pm

In parallel to that of course, the house was changing too. Where once, that said lawyer could have had a home office, with a servant and a cook to provide tea for clients, regular meals and cleaning duties etc, etc. The idea of the servant in the house, was beginning to fade out.

Sherlock homes and Doctor Watson - two men in a room together all day long? :) Now I guess they would be more likely to be housed in a high tech Sandyford office in front of computers all day long.
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Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:32 pm

Quote "I guess they would be more likely to be housed in a high tech Sandyford office in front of computers all day long."

Before they both spend at least 90 mins fighting their way through traffic to their houses in places like Rathcoole and Kinnegad.

The great thing about working in a town centre are all the amenities on your doorstep. Friday evening comes in Sandyford and because you are driving your options become limited.

While the commercial office rates are good for Dunlaoire the reduced commercial retail/leisure rating base must be a cause for concern.
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Postby garethace » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:37 pm

Good explanation about the history of commercial rental space in Dublin btw, that is a very, very, very useful observation to have about Dublin city.

I don't have a clue what a rating base is - I guess that is because I have restricted myself to just designing architecture all my life. :)

Drop in here for a sec, if you want:

http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000496

See exactly what I mean. :)
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Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:38 pm

That thread is indicative of the multi-disciplinary nature of the built environment field these days.

Many skills sets that have little appreciation of the others process of thought. But like everything else discussion is the only way to bring it forward.

I'm sure that a QS wouldn't have been long spotting the balcony floor specs and adding up its effect on the overall cost.

The rating base is an expression used in local government economics to descibe the total number of buildings that are occupied by various businesses upon which commercial rates can be levied by a local authority. ;)
PVC King
 

Postby garethace » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:56 pm

Some cathedrals of commerce well worth looking at here:

http://www.squareoneproductions.com/
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