32-floor building planned for Dublin

32-floor building planned for Dublin

Postby Andrew Duffy » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:26 pm

Paul's already put up another article about this, but here's the Irish Times one. Intersting to see a planned building grow from 18 to 32 stories in this country.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2003/1217/1839781678HM3TOWER.html

32-floor building planned for Dublin
Julie-Anne Barnes


Plans for the construction of the State's tallest building will be announced tomorrow by the Minister of State at the Office of Public Works, Mr Tom Parlon.

The major new development on a State-owned site will incorporate a 32-storey residential building, to be located near Heuston Station, Dublin.

The residential tower will be developed between Dr Steevens' Hospital and the Royal Hospital Kilmainham. Current city plans allow for the possibility of taller buildings in locations which are well served by public transport.

The plans have been described as the "next stage of the Minister's initiative to transform State assets, and fully utilise and extract minimum value from under-utilised State land".

The Tánaiste, Ms Harney, will also give details of the residential facility to be accommodated in the development.

The building is designed by Paul Keogh architects, and will be built on the site between Military Road and St John's Road.

Buildings owned by the Office of Public Works and Eircom on Military Road and St John's Road have already been redeveloped as part of the Westgate scheme. The area surrounding the new development has also been subject to another planning application by Eircom, which has been granted.

The Westgate scheme is a "flagship development" of apartments, office blocks and cultural facilities between Heuston Station and the Royal Hospital Kilmainham. Under the scheme, some 650 family-sized apartments have been planned in two phases. Some 130 of these are in the affordable housing category.

The Westgate scheme is due to be completed in four or five years.

The tallest building in the State at present is Cork County Hall.

© The Irish Times
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Postby FIN » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:02 pm

any pics?
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Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:06 pm

There are three points on this:

Firstly to suggest that Heuston Station is close to a public transport node is correct.
To suggest that the station is suitable for large numbers of additional commuters is a joke. How many commuters board trains at the Cherry Orchard station daily to work in the City Centre?

Credit to Irish Rail they did a good renovation job on Heuston station.

But the failure to develop the interconnector from Heuston to Connolly and Dublin 2 via Tara St and Pearse Stn is a disgrace.

So you have a floor of stranded commuters for every County in the Island of Ireland.


Second point is that it would destroy the Heritage value of two important buildings namely Dr Steven's Hospital and The Royal Hospital in Kilmainham. Lads keep the modern art forms within the Museum.


Thirdly it by utilising scarce construction resources further slows development in the Docklands.

The one area in Central Dublin that possibly has the capacity to absorb tall buildings.

And the minister behind it, yes little tommy parlon,
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Postby stira » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:12 pm

So it will be an actual skyscraper .ie over 120m high fantastic. There are so many 60m plus buildings going up, tara street, u2 tower, pearse street, spencer dock, the new 19 story tower for east wall road cant be much higher. A 32 story building, now that is high rise, and even if they lob off a a floor or two its still going to be damn high.
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Postby stira » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:16 pm

Who cares if it slows development in the docklands? It shows you what a joke the development in the docklands is, beside Heuston Station a 32 storey building is proposed and the best the DDDA can come up with is 60m!!!!!!!!
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Postby FIN » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:20 pm

oh! my god not again. please please go to any other city in the world and see new developments that are close to old buildings ...and i mean that please go. how could it possibly destroy the heritage value and what exactly is the heritage value.... would u like to see no development around these things...
is it not also close to the roads out of dublin? and surely it's not the developemnts or developers fault that irish rail is so shite. it's had the facilities there for expansion.
and your third point...absolute nonsense. if we need more import them. lots of romanian and other such nations builders crying out for work just like we were when we had to go across the water and to america. and espically if they are cheaper than the cartel here.
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Postby GregF » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:22 pm

Peter Coyne and the DDDA are stunted in their creative development (pardon the pun)
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Postby stira » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:22 pm

Diaspora what are you talking about? The interconnector is to be developed. It has to be.
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Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:25 pm

The best the Docklands come up with is a:

The U2 Tower,

The Milleneum Tower,

200 Acres of land for redevelopment,

4 dart Stations

Direct proximity to the City Centre

Direct access to a river at a mature stage.

Comprehensive integrated area planning.

Stira in your rush to be modern, you forget all the basic principles of urban planning


Where are they going to put the other buildings to finish the skyline in remote D8

Sore thumb or a fatter version of the spike it is your call
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Postby stira » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:30 pm

No completely disagree. Did the DDDA produce the land for the redevelopment or was it already there? 4 DARTstations, that was CIE. Direct proximity to the city centre and direct access to a river at amature stage? How can the DDDA claim any credit for this? Its the docklands for god sake! And the U2 tower and millenium tower are 60m high! In the docklands the one place suitable for high buildings in the city!
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Postby FIN » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:32 pm

what? what on earth has this to do with the docklands and urban design. the docklands is as i'm sure u know better than me is quite a large area requiring a good urban map whereas this is one building. what happen's after is pure speculation. where it fits in is that maybe that it's the start of a urban map. everything has to have a start. do u want to keep dublin down so that it may spread furhter into kildare/meath/louth/wicklow and any other surronding counties?
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Postby stira » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:35 pm

Exactly, its a pity we cant take a nice chunk of manhattan and drop it on the docklands and show the residents and objectors what High Rise really is! I can guarantee you most of the people who object have never actuallt been out of this country, they are completely ignorant.
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Postby FIN » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:37 pm

HERE HERE
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Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:39 pm

They don't claim the credit for planning around the existing assets of their area. But they would be stupid not to channel development into areas that are capable of absorbing it.

Except for the fact that they decontaminated the 50+ acre former bord gais site

The U2 tower at 22 stories will be well in excess of 60m.

If this building was on that former Dunloe Ewart Site it would merit serious consideration.

But it is not, it is just on a site that does not possess the special site attributes to justify it's proposed height.

In fact it really must be the silly season, Vega City, 625 new Apartments for liffey valley,

Decentralisation to Portlaosise.

Silly season

It was afterall conceived by Tom Parlon
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Postby stira » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:47 pm

The u2 tower is only habitable to a height of 60m, it is not allowed to be any higher than this. And where did you get 22 stories from i counted approx. 12, from the plans. Luas is also running beside Heuston Station.
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Postby FIN » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:50 pm

"But it is not, it is just on a site that does not possess the special site attributes to justify it's proposed height. "
WHAT?
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Postby Papworth » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:50 pm

It's not the height I would have in doubt its the quality of the architecture. I bet it's a big Hello from David Keogh to Tony Reddy up on the Nestle site opposite the Gaol.
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Postby FIN » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:51 pm

is there any pics at all. i haven't seen the thing yet.
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Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:54 pm

One of Irelands leading property consultants once described the situation of trying to board the DART at Sydney Parade station.

It wasn't for the faint hearted he said there is less pushing at the bottom of a ruck he elaborated.

The Luas has an even lower capacity than the DART by the time it has covered 10+ stations it will already be like the bottom of a ruck


Agree that buildings should be taller, that densities should be higher.

But to get it right do it in the right places so that those that as you said have never left Ireland have no reason to object.
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Postby FIN » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:55 pm

apart from it will destroy the heritage value
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Postby stira » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:00 pm

Ok, the Luas will be crowded by the time it reaches Heuston station at peak times, but the interconnector will have a high capacity for bringing passengers into the the city centre and doklands. And the one thing is, its going ot have to be built there is no getting out of it for CIE or the Gov.
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Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:01 pm

My point is that yes higher densities, yes taller buildings but in areas where you can cluster them.

Follow the buildings with a metro system or lead with the metro.

There is very little built heritage in the Docklands.

This proposal would destroy the heritage value of two important buildings.

Building a 100m tall building in the Docklands would do a lot less damage to the exisitng skyline.
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Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:04 pm

A little less talk a lot more action

I have more confidence in seeing Elvis than the rail interconnecter

Reports, studies, green papers, white papers,
tenders, additional submissions, re-examinations of the tendering process, further clarification of the specification.

Ah why not lets have another competition.
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Postby stira » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:04 pm

Just an idea, everyone knows that Luas is going to be pa currecked to capacity from day one. Frequency at peak times is 5 minutes. Why not order in double the amount of trams currently, increase frequency to 2.5 mins and then when the interconnector is in place, metro etc, use the trams on another line.
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Postby FIN » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:05 pm

please explain heritage value. and as i said everything has to start somewhere. it depends on the architecture. me thinks u don't like tall buildings...keep ireland in the 18th century!!!!
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