LUAS in Harcourt Street (Update No.8)

Postby PVC King » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:36 pm

Quote "We need to invest in a metro to serve the commuter capacity of the future the Luas just can’t compete."

Only significant additional capacity can service high density developments.

Quote "Its already late but if we don’t act now and start building a metro the city will suffer. Invest in the future. It will be money well spent if it’s done properly."

The city is already suffering and with another 300,000 housing units to be built over the next decade in the GDA, no amount of Luas lines will service them.

Interest rates are currently at 45 year lows although the cycle is turning with the Bank Of England having raised rates twice since November. It is time to issue a few €bn in 20 year treasurys. The longer they dither the higher the cost of that money.
PVC King
 

Postby blue » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:43 pm

.... and if it doesn't get the go ahead this year it'll become an election issue and we'll see a re-run of the political football that besieged the Luas.
blue
Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:06 pm
Location: Sydney

Postby notjim » Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:56 pm

Disapora, you aren't comparing like with like, using the Phoenix park tunnel and providing a luas link with stephen's green wouldn't cost more that 1/2 a billion, the interconnector would cost over a billion; a metro to stephens green from the airport would cost 2.7 billion, a spur of the dart line, a heavy rail connection and a luas line all to the airport wouldn't add up to more than a billion and would connect the airport to the dart belt and to the rest of the country. this is real money, there is lots of things that could be done with the 2.2 billion in the difference, i would like to see more spent on scientific research and education, you persumably would like to more spent on conservation and the environment, it could even be spent on other transport projects, like extending the luas, dart and heavy rail networks. don't just compare the interconnector and metro line to stephens green with the alternatives, compare them with the alternatives plus 2.2 billion euro.
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Heuston Chaos

Postby Barry Long » Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:44 pm

As other contributors have pointed out, line A is a disaster, chaos waiting to happen. The capacity is woefully inadequate. Even at five minute intervals, the trams will be stuffed as a Christmas turkey.

Just imagine the morning rush-hour. At heuston station you've got two hundred people, all carrying backpacks and suitcases, trying to get onto an already-packed tram.

Packed because by the time a tram reaches heuston it will have made FIFTEEN stops. That means each tram can collect only 13 passegers at each stop. This is bound to be inadequate, given that the LUAS passes through polulated Tallaght, Drimnagh and Inchicore - never mind the giant Park 'n' Ride at the Red Cow.

The promised 38 minute journey time from Tallaght to Abbey is a joke. They may as well have plucked a figure from the sky. When I asked Eamon Brady, PRO of the RPA, how long would the journey take from Suir Road to Abbey, he paused and said: "Well it's about half way along so I guess 19 minutes"

He didn't know. There has been no analysis done, no approximate timings for each stop, so how can anyone believe the RPA's propaganda?
Barry Long
Member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:32 pm

Postby PVC King » Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:19 pm

Quote "a metro to stephens green from the airport would cost 2.7 billion"

This route is 15kms or 8kms Underground and 7kms standard broad gauge line. Included in this is presumably the rolling stock, signalling and station costs which would probably constitute about E$500m of the total.

That leaves about E$2100m for the actual construction of the line. which would probably be in the order of E$75m per kilometre giving a cost of E$1125 leaving a residual cost of E$975m for the underground section. Or a E$1575 in total for the underground section at E$199 per kilometre.

Quote "a heavy rail connection and a luas line all to the airport wouldn't add up to more than a billion and would connect the airport to the dart belt and to the rest of the country"

Even if a land corridor exists it would cost a fortune not to mention bridges over a motorway for heavy rail.

The cost of lands in North Co Dublin is likely to exceed a 1m an acre . Then welcome the NIMBY lobby who are guaranteed to hold it up for years.

Besides the fact that the existing Howth Junction to Connolly Section is already at capacity. Additional capacity is what is required.

Quote "don't just compare the interconnector and metro line to stephens green with the alternatives, compare them with the alternatives plus 2.2 billion euro."

The E$2bn is really E$975m to link Stephens green via Connolly to the Airport.

The cost of E$796m to link all systems is quite a small one considering just how many transport options it will provide.

It is also the only way to provide substantial additional capacity on an East-West axis in the City.

Quote "you persumably would like to more spent on conservation and the environment"

No. I as an An Taisce supporter simply wish European and National Laws to be enforced. The building of a European standard public transport system in conjunction with urban renewal programmes would deliver more on sustainability than a few trophy restorations. The environment is not discretionary spending in Europe it is a fundamental obligation of EU mebership at governmental level.
PVC King
 

Postby Devin » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:44 am

I said: "...There's two tram stops about 50 metres apart on Luas Line A! One immediately to each side of Church Street."

JJ replied: "Ahem, Thats one platform in each direction :rolleyes: The Jervis stop is split for this reason..."

Ahem, you're wrong JJ :rolleyes: :rolleyes:. The stops I was talking about are at Chancery Street, just east of Church Street, and Hammond Lane (which is the Smithfield stop), just west of Church Street. The platforms at both stops are directly opposite one another.

I was exaggerating when I said 50 metres, but these two stops are VERY close.
Devin
Old Master
 
Posts: 1509
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:27 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby PVC King » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:34 am

Who put Church St there, did they not know it would get in the way at some stage?
PVC King
 

Postby JJ » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:34 pm

Doooh , Your right Devin.
I checked the distance its about 250m

JJ:)
JJ
Member
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Ireland

Postby Peter Fitz » Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:37 pm

Got a letter from the RPA this morning ...

"We are pleased to announce that testing of the Tallaght to Heuston section of Luas Line A will commence on Sunday, 7th March 2004 ....

... Everything remains on schedule for the commencement of passenger services in June & August of this year"
Peter Fitz
 

Postby Peter Fitz » Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:42 pm

found a bit more ..

" from Thursday, 11th March 2004, testing will commence along the full extent of the Sandyford to St. Stephen's Green Luas Line ...

... once made live overhead lines and underground cables will remain live "
Peter Fitz
 

Postby kefu » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:03 pm

One stop is for Smithfield, and the other is for the Four Courts. They're close but so is the Jervis Street stop close to the O'Connell Street stop. They need to be near each other when they get that close to town.
kefu
Senior Member
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Postby Peter Fitz » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:20 pm

there's only six stops between heuston & connolly, its not that many really ...
Peter Fitz
 

Postby Gabriel-Conway » Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:09 am

Just to alert you - the first full run end to end on Line B is this Thursday 11th March - it's a walking pace "guage trial" - arrival at Stephens Green 3pm to be greeted by Bertie.

Harcourt Street will be closed for the duration.


On Line A a run was made as far as Hueston yesterday - I was away, so no pictures, but I'l be in situ on Thursday.

Gabriel
Gabriel-Conway
Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:18 am
Location: Dublin

Postby niall murphy » Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:00 pm

from where will it be walking pace? Surely not the whole way? Is testing regular around Ranelagh? What kind of speeds are we talking about in testing?
niall murphy
Member
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:53 pm

Postby Gabriel-Conway » Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:24 pm

They did the "guage testing" as far as Beechwood on Feb 12th, so it will be normal speed to there, and walking pace from then on.

Now I'm not technical, or a railway expert, but my (probably flawed) understanding is that these tests involve very slow speed testing to check that the rails are laid correctly, and that all clearences at every point are correct to the original design and computer simulations.

To givean example, the tests from Red Cow to Hueston yesterday took 4 hours for the trip - but they ran back in 50 minutes (still slower than schedule as they stopped for Gardai at every junction, as lights not tied into system yet.


I don't think there have been many tests beyond Dundrum yet, but these will soon commence.

I think regular test running down Harcourt Street will wait until the roadway has been fully reconstructed, as currently traffic is running down the track while the other side of the street is being relaid.

Gabriel
Gabriel-Conway
Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:18 am
Location: Dublin

Postby StephenC » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:14 pm

It will be a job in itself cleaning the crap out from the rails to facilitate the trams. It must be an exciting time to be working on the project seeing all that hard work come to fruition.

Progress on completing the network continues. They were planting trees on St Stephens Green at the weekend so I presume they will be replicating the recent improvements on the other three sides of the Green. It will make the stop there much more attractive and it should be a great welcome point into the city.

On the north side the shell of stops are being installed from Heuston to Capel Street. They are in galvinised steel...like everything else in this city. Paint was obviously sooo last millennium. My biggest gripe though are the streetlamps. While the pylons and lines are quite okay and reasonably unobtrustive, the ugly street lamps they put on top are terrible. They could at least have made an effort. A style similar to that on Jervis St maybe? Im dissapointed. This is just not the standard we should be expecting for our 21st century city (Draft Development Plan!). One particular mess is The stretch from Heuston to Museum... the whole area is now a mishmash of lamposts and styles.
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Postby Gabriel-Conway » Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:15 am

Thanks to a colleague I now have photos available of the Hueston test run at http://www.allaboutbuses.com/luas

All is still on for Stephens green at 3pm Thursday.

Gabriel
Gabriel-Conway
Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:18 am
Location: Dublin

Postby emf » Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:09 pm

Any photos yet from Stephen's Green?
emf
Member
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 4:03 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby blue » Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:17 pm

blue
Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:06 pm
Location: Sydney

Postby Niall » Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:05 pm

Excellent photos. Shame about the graffiti some idiot has sprayed over most of the walls!
Niall
Member
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2001 1:00 am

Postby Peter Fitz » Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:22 pm

Luas run in to Stephen's Green went ahead today, with some protests from Harcourt Street traders standing on the tracks ...
Peter Fitz
 

Postby GrahamH » Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:59 pm

What they should be complaining about is the manner in which half of the original silver lamp standards on the street have been replaced with those ridiculous 'heritage'-based columns, which are being thrown up down Camden St, only with the original heads transplanted onto them.
This is disgraceful, part of the charm of Harcourt St was the historic feel of the place with the wonky railings & subsiding steps combined with the chunky bases of these silver Victorian columns.
There are some now-rare swan-neck examples on the other side, that I fear are about to get the chop.

I thought we left these destructrive days long ago.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4589
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Postby blue » Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:39 pm

Some pics:
http://www.allaboutbuses.com/luas/40315-green.html

Courtesy of Gabriel Conway, keep up the good work.
blue
Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:06 pm
Location: Sydney

Postby PVC King » Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:32 pm

Originally posted by Peter FitzPatrick
Luas run in to Stephen's Green went ahead today, with some protests from Harcourt Street traders standing on the tracks ...


I am amazed that they payed any rates to the corpo who allowed the various contractors run a virtual scrap yard on ALL THE CITY CENTRE SECTIONS

A fat lot of use the luas would be if your creditors foreclose upon your business during what was a virtual open ended series of construction extensions.

Contractors should be hit with the polluter pays principle, it was a disgrace :mad:
PVC King
 

Postby GrahamH » Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:44 pm

These traders should be compensated in some way, esp anyone who risks closure, they have gone through hell on this st moreso than anywhere else.
Abbey St didn't have it too bad comparitively, but Harcourt was woeful for so many reasons.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4589
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland



cron