Dun Laoghaire - None of the above

Dun Laoghaire - None of the above

Postby shadow » Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:52 pm

In the Irish Times today 11 October 2003 are 4 shortlisted (developer led) projects for Dun Laoghaire Pier.

This is extreemly dissapointing and depressing. It seems that commerce triumphs over people and place. If anything this proves the need for a proper open culturally and socially accountable competition system.

As for imagination it seems in short supply.
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ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST

Postby pepe » Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:31 pm

Can no one stand up to the irrelevance of mr libeskinds proposals.
Would be nice to see the other three shortlisted entries.
But maybe they might be to much of an assault on my eyes.

didnt libeskind do a design for the pier four years ago??

Is this a different design, or just recycled.

The 3d image looks a little dated to say the least.

Only fourteen submissions!

Was it an anonymous entry/tender process.

Is there no competition on this planet that can avoid succombing to the "superstar" architects and select something with cultural relevance rahter than slashy lightning diagonal windows that are just so holocaust museum.

Been there done that.

Move on.

PUBLIC ENQUIRY PLEASE.

MORE INFORMATION NNEDED.

OTHERWISE THE PETITION PROTEST PROCESS BEGINS AGAIN

Bastardo
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Postby pepe » Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:11 pm

Image of libeskinds shotlisted proposal

How old is this image????
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Postby shadow » Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:33 pm

Same image as published in the Irish Times today. The other short listed architects (fronting the developers) include Scott Tallon Walker, Hennegan Peng, SOM. All have a vaguely ship like prow with more than a nod to either Libeskind or other prow like buildings such as Piano's in Holland.

If commerce gets to decide the nature of important public spaces, without any countervailing social/design pressure this will be more of the same.
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The ones that got away

Postby pepe » Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:36 pm

where did the obsession with ships come from.

If you want to build a ship go build a ship!

but know that it wont be anything as elegant as one of the tall shps or anything that features in the contemporary sailing world.

That pointy prow is just ridiculous.

when was the last time a boat was built that looks anything like that.

anyone heard of aero or hydro dynamics.

streamlining.

I have given up on ireland.

And dublin especially
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Postby notjim » Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:29 pm

i think the liebskind design looked great and the boat aspect is lots of fun, the big disappointment is the hennigan-peng.
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Postby mbr » Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:47 pm

I like Libeskinds design.

The rendering looks nice, too.

I can understand the criticism, with so much similarity in all of his designs. But he is still one of the best, and I'd take his design over 99% of the other stuff out there, so I'd be happy to see another one of his buildings get built.

Plus, I like pointy things ;-)
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Postby trace » Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:32 pm

Hey. angry pepe. Hey, Mr Know-It-All, cad-jockey Bigshot ("I have access to images of one of the designs that wasnt selected. And i must say it seems that it was much more relevant to the place and much more elegant than the libeskind proposal. Will contact the authors/designers and see if they want to publish it."): Would today's intemperate rant at http://www.archinect.com/discuss_cgi/groups/1556.html which states "[Our] Recent Projects include Dunlaoghere [sic] Pier Gallery/Museum/Landscape and associated facilities for architecture53seven EIRE" be by and about you?

Ain't one bit nice, now, for a big British ge-ril-a to go callin' all of us poor Paddies "pykey irish monkeys." Say architecture53seven would agree'n'all.
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?????

Postby pepe » Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:35 am

trace
i have no idea what you are talking about
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Postby what? » Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:49 am

libeskinds design is a disgrace.

this site isnt steeped in bloodshed, horror, detatchement, anguish, loss etc. how could we possibly ask him to produce something relevant? the render image is appalingly garish and belies the lack of effort that must have gone into producing it. ive visited three of libeskinds finished buildings and have (limited) respect for what he has done with them. mainly because it is his niche to deal with these narrations of trauma etc.
but he shouldnt be alloud masturbate on dunloaghrie pier from afar with some literal crap.
something with some elegance and relevance please...... maybe even a bit of thought?

has anyone any images of the heneghan peng project? i really cant see anything good coming from scott tallon walker or SOM these days.
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Postby alan d » Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:20 am

Do me a favour, if you have an interest ( like you worked for Libeskind or are one of the architects on the Stirling Short list ) and want to comment, please declare it and it would help a great deal, I think to know where you are.
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Postby what? » Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:44 am

if yuore talking to me alan, i dont work for libeskind but know someone who did, and i have talked to the man himself. i am (unfortuantely) not either, on the stirling prize shortlist.

if your point is that you need to be someone close to the project to be in a position to appraise what is put up as a public portrayal of the proposal i would have to disagree.

you may think that i am overly critical of projects but i feel that better can be done. particularily when respected practices acquire jobs on the back of previous good work, then rest on their laurels and slip into mediocrity that is viewed with blind respect

i would be the first to applaud good design and thought but i will not clap like a seal at irrelevance and laziness
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Postby alan d » Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:03 pm

Whoa, what? No critisism is implied.

Simply that it helps the quality of the discussion, I feel if interests are declared. Also mbr's comments on Libeskind are more pertinant to me and interesting because he is writing from LA and Denver, where set pieces are better accepted.
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Postby what? » Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:12 pm

sorry alan, i did jump down your neck a bit there. thats the problem with internet debates, you dont get a tone of voice with the words!
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Re: Dun Laoghaire - None of the above

Postby phil » Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:28 pm

Originally posted by shadow
In the Irish Times today 11 October 2003 are 4 shortlisted (developer led) projects for Dun Laoghaire Pier.

This is extreemly dissapointing and depressing. It seems that commerce triumphs over people and place.


Shadow:
I could not agree with you more. It is a very unfortunate situation, but as the Dun Laoghaire Harbour Company have control of the Carlisle pier it would seem that they want something which is of a strongly comercial nature. People who live in Dun Laoghaire are getting more and more frustrated by the lack of public involvement with supposedly public spaces. This was shown recently with the whole baths fiasco. I am sure that there will be alot of public comment when the true nature of these developments is unveiled in the near future.
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Postby el architino » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:20 pm

EL ARCHITINO is disgusted at the lack of contextual knowledge displayed by mr libeskind. he obviosly has no ability to decipher the genius loci of a site.
EL ARCHITINO laughs heartily at the proposition of a boat shaped building to placed on the pier. even the vaugely concious rif-raf who populate dun laoghrie would scoff at such a formally pedestrian solution for the site.
EL ARCHITINO has studied the history of dun laoghrie for years, lived in the area for 16 months, befriended locals and immersed himself in the culture of the seaside area. EL ARCHITINO has even buried himself under rocks close to the site for 3 weeks in order to know what it feels like to be the site. these are the minimum measures which must be taken in order have a knowledge of the context, and meaning in a certain place. without this dedication what will be created is merely a farcical, additive entity worthy only of being defecated upon by junkies.
EL ARCHITINO's proposal goes beyond the facile, beyond the aparent, beyond the fashionable. it is of its place and transcends time. when built, it will be indivisible from the area in any way. without it, the fabric of the whole area would fall into incoherencey.

EL ARCHITINO proposes to build a structure of exactly the same dimensions and exactly the same material as the original pier. (the stone would be created through a process of genetic cloning of each individual stone in the origional pier) this structure would be placed on top of the carlisle pier to form a cohesive whole.
instead of the commercial shops and resturaunts proposed by the despicable libeskind, EL ARCHITINO proposes a ticket booth which will sell permission to view the new pier from afar.
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Postby alan d » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:31 pm

Sorry El Architino, that's the Herzog and de Meuron scheme, just more elequently put forward.

You've been giving your ideas away too cheaply
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thats what i was talkin about

Postby pepe » Mon Oct 13, 2003 7:35 pm

thats the scheme i was talking about.

el architino rocks i back!
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Postby sw101 » Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:15 pm

El architino, your genius again ricks me to my granite core. By simple deduction one can see that the best thing about the pier in dun laoghaire is........the pier. Everyone goes to use the pier, see the pier, bounce on the pier, take bits of pier. More pier, that is the answer. Bows graciously to the golden suited one
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Postby el architino » Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:07 pm

as mies van der rohe once said:
"EL ARCHITINO is in the details"

although EL ARCHITINO has little respect for the wandering thinkings of Mr. van der rohe, he does feel that coincidentaly he was vaugely right in this case.

EL ARCHITINO's concept for the pier project deals with connection and separation at every concievable level: the seperation of the locals from their memories of how life was before the new pier, the connection of the new pier with the metaphysical presence of every one of the millions of new visitors who will flock to the site, a paradigmatic expose of the multiplicity latently stored in every place...and so on.

EL ARCHITINO wishes that these themes be realised on every level from the effect on the entire lifespan of a human being to the constructional contradictions.

EL ARCHITINO wishes that no rock in his pier should touch another, under any circumstances. EL ARCHITINO feels this will subvert the very notion of this primitve form of construction, people will turn on loadbearing construction and tear down every building they see using this building method. this will lead the way clear for EL ARCHITNO's inevitable world domination.

so miesiy mouse's words will indeed ring true
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