will sligo clip the wings of Dunlop and Murray

will sligo clip the wings of Dunlop and Murray

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:01 am

Alan...... any bets on which way this will go... i really should explain what brown envelopes in irish politics are for...


this would be a shame, as the design that I have seen would be an excellent addition to Sligo




Council vote will decide 19th-century building's fate

A vote by Sligo Borough Council next Monday will determine whether an early 19th-century building next door to the town's imposing courthouse can be demolished to make way for an ultra-modern development.

Though the council decided three weeks ago, by six votes to five, not to include the threatened Teeling House in its list of protected structures, some members who favour retaining it will attempt to reverse this decision.

The Sligo county manager, Mr Hubert Kearns, recommended that the building should be listed because it was a high priority to retain historic buildings in the conservation area surrounding the recently renovated courthouse.


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2003/0903/1189192607HM2SLIGO.html
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Postby alan d » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:53 am

I frankly don't know Paul how anyone gets anything built in Irelend.

Can't say more than that just now obviously but am completely underwhelmed by An Taisce.
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Postby alan d » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:21 am

If you could post the scheme Paul, that would be an idea. Can't do it my end and maybe contributers to the site would like to make comment. Although judging by the tone of recent postings concerning conservation , maybe.............
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:53 pm

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Postby James » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:20 pm

The images are very useful but I don't think the scheme proposed convinces, theres a big break and difference in scale, a new very blank looking gable, and a lack of the symmetry whihc seems to characterise the original Teeling House.

I'd be inclined to say keep teh house and re-model it a la Scarpa.

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Postby alan d » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:37 am

Which Scarpa would that be James and what about the horse and cart?
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:36 pm

so alan, if your client canvassing? you can be damn sure An Taisce are ringing the councillors at home...
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Postby James » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:19 pm

Sorry I suspect I've given offence, i was referring to Carlo Scarpa - he seemed to make a virtue out of working with rather than against existing fabric.

As to horses and carts I don't really get your point. If its a case of giving new architecture precedence over old well then thats one argument that would need a lot of discussion and would encompass a huge amount of 'exclusion clauses' my comments were simpler really - in that I don't think the scheme as proposed is really very sensitive. That said I'd prefer to hear your views on my specific comments.
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Postby alan d » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:48 am

Believe me James there's nothing you can say to me which could cause me to take offence. I just happen to have lectured widely, in Europe and the United States on Carlo Scarpa and completed a masters disseration on Castelvecchio and consequently don't understnd the relevance to a building built in 1820 on which I can find no historic or architectural framework or background information.

As for the horse and cart, your not looking hard enough, it's in the pend on the drawing marked "as existing" ready to being driven by An Taisce back into some quaint " quite man" side road marked cultural backwater
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Postby James » Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:25 pm

Alan, my point was fairly Simple, (too simple?)the proposed development has a number of problems in relation to the urban qualities of the existing building.

As for its significance or otherwise, I know Sligo fairly well and personally would be concerned that most of the new regeneration work done has been pretty much anti contextual with a strong bias towards demolition and consequently a tendancy towards 'anywhere' architecture.

I'm delighted that the penny dropped as to which Scarpa I was talking about (the other one sells shoes I think - unless you're talking about the glass designer or manufacturer).

Just because you can't find any merit yourself in the existing house does'nt mean its not there, 1800's - 1830's vernacular architecture is becoming quite rare in this country generally and in the larger planned towns in particular mostly as a result of intrusive comercial re-development - perhaps a look at Niall McCullogh's 'Lost Tradition' might jog the grey cells some what.

My main point was though that it might prove far more interesting to try to work with the existing fabric rather than against it.

I really think that as architects we have to grow up a lilttle and be perhaps a little less precious about superimposing our own visions on the existing urban landscape.

I remember looking at my own rather pedestrian 18th century house when a bought it and thinking 'what a mess', it took a year or two of living there to realise that in its own 'umble' way it was quite a perfect thing and that really I should shelve all of my proposed 'interventions' 'selective demolitions' and 'enhancements', in honesty it was a better piece of architecture than I could produce. The point is - things survive for a reason, sometimes its accidental but more often than not there is an intrinsic quality (if only structural) which stretches out a buildings life.

As to Scarpa, don't forget that for every castelvecchio there were myriad small interventions in humbler buildings, for me thats real 'quality architecture'.

I'd still like to have a response to my specific criticisms.

PS: I don't think of Sligo as a Cultural Backwater - but then perhaps I'm not that cultured, but like most people I would welcome cultural intervention - pray tell: What is the cultural content in teh proposed development??:confused:
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Postby alan d » Sun Sep 07, 2003 3:52 pm

Sorry James, you seem like a decent enough cove but I've lost interest
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Postby piloti » Tue Sep 09, 2003 7:17 pm

alan dunlop a friend told me of your participation on this site i am a gallery owner based in oxfordshire and an art dealer specialising in architectural drawings i sam your work at this years royal academy in scotland and it is beautiful would you consider an exhibition and are your sligo drawings for sale. i would swap of three of scarpa for one dunlop
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Postby alan d » Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:57 am

Not for sale, maybe exhibition. Though if we're succesful our client in Sligo will get them probably and anyone on the council who's interested.

You should contact me though through the Royal Incorporation of Architects in Scotland not via this site.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:49 am

yeah cos i'll be looking for my standard cut of 20% ;)
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Postby MG » Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:00 pm

Interesting design Alan. What are the rear elevations and plans like?
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Postby alan d » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:39 am

I'll put together the plans and elevations MG and ask Paul if he'll put them on the site. Thanks for your comments........thought I was ploughing my own furrow
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:49 pm

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Postby alan d » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:06 pm

......the plan at ground floor MG, links through to Sligo High Street via our new wynd. Another developer picks it up at the top of our site and makes the connection

Just is case your'e wondering about the dead end.
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Postby LOB » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:30 pm

Good luck alan
My preference would be for the full scheme.
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Postby MG » Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:52 pm

Nice, very nice. Not knowing the geography of Sligo, will the new pedestrian access link two busy streets? Or a major and a minor?

Great draughtmanship
http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/sligo/sligo/7_lge.html
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Postby alan d » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:10 pm

Yes it will MG, two major streets. We prepared a master planning strategy showing how the back courts could be redeveloped and routes through encouraged. Our new building next to the Courthouse will be at a strategic focal point entering Sligo from the south.

Thanks for the comments re the draughtmanship......they were the dogs bollock's as opposed to the donkey's balls. Only a Jesuit boy can tell the difference
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:27 pm

just remembered this...
they're fickle in sligo
http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2000/000146.htm
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Postby alan d » Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:41 am

Decision put off 'til November now. Hard, hard work getting things done in your wonderful country, no doubt about it.

Hav'nt been able to contribute as much to the site either Paul, sorry. Designing a bridge.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:26 pm

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Postby sw101 » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:36 pm

front elevation looks a bit like casa del fascio, which isnt a bad thing. just not sure it works in an sligeach.
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