Luas faces delay until 2005 - Offical

Luas faces delay until 2005 - Official

Postby Niall » Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:39 am

Luas faces delay until 2005 - rail agency

31/08/03 SB Post


By Sean Mac Carthaigh, Political Reporter

Dubliners may not be travelling on the Luas until 2005, and the project is in danger of degenerating into a bitter row between client and contractor, the state agency in charge of building the light rail system has admitted.


Frank Allen, the chief executive of the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) wrote to Eoin Ryan TD, the head of the Oireachtas Committee on Transport, saying the body did not know when the project would be finished or how much it would cost.

He said he feared a "collapse into mutual recrimination between client and contractor" that could last "several years".

This weekend, Ryan warned



that the Luas faced the prospect becoming "a fiasco", and demanded urgent action by the RPA.

In 1996, the government said the Luas would be built for »220 million (e279 million), and that it would be in operation by 2001. Two years ago, the cost had more than doubled to €635 million and the start date put back to 2003.

Now, sources say the cost is headed for €1 billion, and that the two unconnected lines will not be in service before 2005.

Ryan wrote to the RPA earlier this month expressing alarm at traffic delays, missed construction deadlines and poor site management.

In his letter of reply, Allen said he shared Ryan's fears about missed deadlines, and added: "RPA is endeavouring to receive credible assurances regarding schedules to completion." He said the RPA was now trying to avoid the project being derailed because of a bitter row over who was to blame for delays.



Playing fast and Luas

31/08/03 00:00


By Sean Mac Carthaigh, Political Correspondent

The state agency in charge of building the Luas light rail system does not know when it will be finished or how much it will cost, and fears a "collapse into mutual recrimination between client and contractor" that could last "several years".


A letter from Frank Allen, chief executive of the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) to Eoin Ryan TD, chairman of the Oireachtas Committee on Transport, reveals that the project is now in deep trouble.

Ryan this weekend warned that the Luas was in danger of becoming "a fiasco" and demanded that the RPA adopt a hands-on ap-proach. His committee is likely to summon key players to Leinster House



to explain themselves.

Ryan wrote to the RPA earlier this month expressing his alarm at the way the Luas project had evolved. He pointed to:

unnecessary traffic delays & missed construction deadlines

failure to deal with disrupted businesses

poor site management & lack of concern for pedestrians

the `hands-off' approach of the RPA

In the reply, Allen said he shared Ryan's fears about missed deadlines, and added: "This does give us cause for concern about the reliability of the contractor's completion dates for the overall project."

Allen said AMB JV, the contractor, had claimed that many delays had been caused by factors outside its control, such as additional requirements by local authorities, and archaeological finds.

"RPA is endeavouring to receive credible assurances regarding schedules to completion,"Allen said.

Such discussions and negotiations were part of all large infrastructure projects, he said, and the RPA was trying to maintain a balance between penalising underperformance and cooperating with the contractor to get the job finished.

He said that he believed that AMB JV had the experience and skills to complete the job "within the timeframe that the contractor has indicated to us", but said this would require "maximum commitment and application of resources".

But the RPA chief raised the spectre of the project being derailed by a row. "Major infrastructure projects sometimes collapse into mutual recrimination between client and contractor, with the merits of the arguments being resolved by an arbitrator several years hence," Allen wrote. "We are trying to avoid such a situation."

Ryan this weekend characterised the letter as "remarkable".

"I am amazed that such a major piece of infrastructural work has been allowed get to this situation," he said.

"There seems to be complete lackof hands-on management on the ground - and no concern about the effect it is having on the city.

"I can't understand why, when certain milestones were reached, action was not taken."

Ryan said the Luas was now "headed for a fiasco".

In the short term, Ryan said, there should be an urgent review, concentrating on how to minimise the disruption to the city.

"For example, there is never anyone there, on the ground, to move traffic," he said. "There should be 50 trained people, who know what is going on, and are on the ground at major roadworks in Dublin, to move traffic.

"We would be far better off with a designated corps like that than the proposed traffic police." He said the Luas failures could have a knock-on effect for other projects.

"One of the worrying things is that there are many proposals for major infrastructural work in Dublin and around the country, and if we don't learn from what has happened here there will be no appetite to complete them," he said.

"For example, there is the proposal to build an extra lane on the M50," Ryan said. "We have to convince people that these things can be done with minimum disruption. That is an absolute priority. We need to know we're not going to get ourselves into this fiasco again."

The train due at platform one is late and over budget

In 1996, the government aid the Luas would be built or »220 million (e279 mil- ion) and be in serviceby 2001. In 2001, formerMinister or Public Enterprise Mary O'Rourke conceded that the cost for the project had more han doubled to over »500 million (e635 million).

She predicted that trains would begin to run in 2003. As 2003 approached, the Minister for Transport, Seamus Brennan, said the budget had swelled to €675 million.

"I trust that everyone concerned will do all in their power to ensure no further delays will take place and that he construction of the system s completed at the earliest possible date, so that commu- ers will have access to ser- vices in the early months of 2004," he said. & In February 2003, The Sunday Business Post reported that the most conservative current estimate for he Luas was €800 million, and that this could easily bloat to €1 billion.

This newspaper also reported that only the Sandyford to St Stephen's Green line had any hope of being operational by mid-2004.

The letter dated August 26 from RPA chief executive Frank Allen indicates that Dubliners may not get to use the Luas until 2005 - if the project doesn't "collapse into mutual recrimination" to be resolved in "several years".
Niall
Member
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2001 1:00 am

Postby J. Seerski » Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:56 am

Yeah, I'm sick of this sad country. Can anything be completed (a) correctly; (b) on time????

Why oh why do we put up with second best?
J. Seerski
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:48 pm
Location: Glasnevin, Dublin

Postby WillC » Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:55 pm

Get the Dutch to move in and run this pathetic country. That's what I say. A banana republic is all it is, run by half-wits.
WillC
Member
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 7:46 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby Niall » Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:16 pm

I hate to say but the sub-contractors ARE Dutch - Ballast Nedham.

The main contractors are Anasaldo Breda, Italians in a joint 'effort' with an Australian company. The operators Will be Connex- French. The people responsible are the RPA, a quango set up by Mary O'Rourke. I hate to say it but I think the RPA should be dissolved, they have handled this all terribly!
Niall
Member
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2001 1:00 am

Postby WillC » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:58 pm

Oooppps !
WillC
Member
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 7:46 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby Peter Fitz » Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:43 pm

Not sure about the accuracy of this article. The director of the RPA was on only a few weeks ago saying that ALL construction would be finished by Christmas, with training of drivers etc. running up until summer 2004.

I don't think the RPA would have publicly announced this deadline without being at least half sure they could meet it, knowing all the stick they would get otherwise ...

there are only 3 kilometers of track left to lay on the tallaght line, work at the red cow is finished, I don't see how this new 2005 deadline could be accurate ... I could finish the bloody thing myself in that time ...
Peter Fitz
 

Postby Murpho » Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:07 am

Lads,

Will ye ever stop been so quck to criticise and give Ireland some credit.

I don't believe this article, it is not an item in any of the national papers and as the previous poster stated they wouldn't announce info unless they were 100% certain.

Just look at what's happening in Ireland at the moment.

A major road network is being entered, sports facilities are beiing improved, the Luas, Dublin Port Tunnel, a metro is being planned, these are just a few.

After decades of underinvestment, there are major infrastuctural improvements been made,

I live in Holland and I was home last week for a weekend, and I couldn''t get over how Dublin was changing and improving.

New buildings popping up everywhere, new bars restaurants and hotels. O'Connell St regeneration is begun, new bridges over the liffey, boardwalks, a refurbished airport, new motorway to the border, M50 nearing completion , I could go on.

As someone living out of the country for 5 years and coming back I couldn't believe the amount of stuff that was going on and I felt proud to see that Ireland is finally changing and progressing.

So please stop complaining all the time. Major projects never go without a hitch and the comment about the Dutch government made me laugh. Living in Holland for 5 years now and the country is a mess. Cutbacks everywhere and some of the architecture here would make you squirm.
Murpho
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 3:13 pm

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:33 am

The articles are from the Sunday Business Post
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5427
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Postby Papworth » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:35 am

Looks like the LUAS is rapidly and at great speed heading towards an enquiry that will be more costly and take longer than its construction !! bring over Hutton and have it done in a month.
Papworth
Member
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Postby GregF » Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:21 am

Frank McDonald and Garret Fitzgerald are discussing it on the Pat Kenny show at the mo this morning! LUAS aka FIASCO
User avatar
GregF
Old Master
 
Posts: 1610
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Postby Niall » Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:46 pm

From the Irish Examiner website By Harry McGee, Political Editor
MINISTER for Transport Seamus Brennan is to seek Cabinet approval for his ambitious underground Dublin metro system this month, a move that will signal the death knell for the LUAS transit system even before it begins operations.
Under the proposals, the controversial LUAS system could be reduced to a single line within the next seven years and may cease to exist within 20 years.
If, as expected, the multi-billion metro project is approved by Cabinet, LUAS will be absorbed into the metro system as quickly as possible.
The tram project, which has cost€800 million and aroused huge controversy, will be a stop-gap measure with no role to play in the long term. One of its two lines Sandyford to Stephen's Green could be subsumed into the metro by 2010, with the Tallaght route being turned into a metro line at a later stage.
Mr Brennan stopped short of saying that LUAS was a mistake but added that once the metro system is fully up and running, LUAS will be "gone".
The first phase of the multi-billion metro project will be a link between Dublin Airport and the city centre. The minister is confident it will be running by 2007.
But, crucially, the minister said the second phase of the project will be the upgrade of the Sandyford-Stephen's Green LUAS line to metro. Given the schedules the minister is pledging, that could be complete as early as 2009 or 2010.
The upgrade of the second LUAS line from Tallaght to the city centre will be a longer-term project, but Mr Brennan said a decision had not yet been reached. The problem with upgrading that route to metro, he said, was that it crossed roads at too many points and these sections would need to go underground.
Asked whether, in retrospect, he considered LUAS to be a mistake, Mr Brennan said: "The decision to built LUAS was taken pre-Celtic Tiger. If you were starting fresh, you would plan for a metro. [We] want to end up with an integrated system and not a patchwork-quilt of rail systems. LUAS will not be there at the end of the day. LUAS is gone," he said.
The Rail Procurement Agency originally estimated the cost of the airport metro link at €4.8bn but that figure has been revised downwards, with some estimates now below €2bn. "The only way you can get an accurate price is to ask the marketplace," Mr Brennan said. "I will be taking the proposal to do that to Cabinet."
Niall
Member
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2001 1:00 am

Postby shadow » Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:43 pm

I have heard that the dealy in starting LUAS (to review whether or not we should have a metro instead of LUAS) which was ordered by then Minister O'Rourke lost Ireland in the region of €350 million in EU subvention funds.
shadow
Member
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2001 1:00 am

Postby Andrew Duffy » Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:16 pm

The future upgrading of Line B to metro is hardly news; it's been the intention the whole time. The pipe dream map published by the DTO shows Line B as a metro line. It's obviously engineered to a much higher standard than Line A, with many sections raised above ground.
Andrew Duffy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Postby ewanduffy » Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:38 pm

Originally posted by shadow
I have heard that the dealy in starting LUAS (to review whether or not we should have a metro instead of LUAS) which was ordered by then Minister O'Rourke lost Ireland in the region of €350 million in EU subvention funds.

That and the fact that they wouldn't run the line to Ballymun, despite Ballymun being a better recipient of EU Cohesion Funds. Blame the Light Rail Office (now the RPA) for that. (Not that I am a supporter of Mary O'Rourke. As an ex Eircom shareholder and former Westmeath resident, I'm gald to see the back of her).
ewanduffy
Member
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 2:00 pm
Location: Celbridge

Postby d_d_dallas » Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:34 pm

So LUAS was unsuitable for Dublin to begin with???

Just think lads - only till 2025 to wait for the conversion of the line - and the Ballymun/Airport line opening.

It's aircoach for me till then!
d_d_dallas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:27 pm
Location: Ireland

Postby Rory W » Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:45 pm

As an experienced PR man I'd say these articles have all the hallmarks of the car lobby in this country (not to name names but we all know who these people are)
Rory W
Old Master
 
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2000 12:00 am
Location: Drogheda & Blackrock

Postby Niall » Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:28 pm

Could people please read the article, the comments are attributed to the head of the RPA, i.e the people RESPONSIBLE.

Sraight from the Horses mouth!!!!!!!

No one has invented this information
Niall
Member
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2001 1:00 am

Postby GrahamH » Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:38 pm

Still, 2005 as mentioned in the piece is just silly - as of this evening Seamus Brennan is saying that it will be completed as planned(ish) in July of next year - although I note that it was set in concrete a couple of weeks ago that drivers would be trained during May for 5/6 weeks and the service operating by the end of June.
Seamus just casually slipped in July as the operating date today - you may be sure it'll be July 31st.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4590
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Postby redeoin » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:09 am

I heard that the City Council are resorting to the controversial, and little known Plan B, which is to shift the entire city south by 100 miles to a ready-made greenfield site near wexford, which will initially consist of nothing but roads, trams and metros.

My source is pretty good - he writes for the sunday business post.
redeoin
Member
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 1:20 pm
Location: dublin

Postby ewanduffy » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:42 pm

Originally posted by redeoin
I heard that the City Council are resorting to the controversial, and little known Plan B, which is to shift the entire city south by 100 miles to a ready-made greenfield site near wexford, which will initially consist of nothing but roads, trams and metros.

My source is pretty good - he writes for the sunday business post.

Dublin car free finally. Owen Keegan's utopia :)
ewanduffy
Member
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 2:00 pm
Location: Celbridge

Postby GregF » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:48 pm

I heard too there were once plans to level the entire city centre including concreting over the river Liffey making one huge road et car park for all. The City Fathers aka Frank Feely and Co nearly had their dream materialized at one stage too!
User avatar
GregF
Old Master
 
Posts: 1610
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Postby J. Seerski » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:36 pm

As for the Liffey idea - what about this idea...

The easiest method of constructing an INTEGRATED transport system would involve a circular line , mirroring that of the Circular Roads. Cheapest method of construction would involve building underneath both the Royal and Grand Canals. Offshoots to various hideous suburbs.

Also, it is possible to build underneath the liffey. Perhaps offering another means to solving the underground problem without digging up the streets...

Simple ideas are often the best - the Luas is a complicated mess.

The idiocy of the two lines not joining at the centre is baffling. I heard of the arguments that the Stephens Green Line would not join owing to a possible underground connection - its nonsense.

Also, the idea that Abbey Street to Connolly Stn. is Line 'C' is another joke - its less than a km long!!!!!
J. Seerski
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:48 pm
Location: Glasnevin, Dublin

Postby Rory W » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:02 pm

Could people please read the article, the comments are attributed to the head of the RPA, i.e the people RESPONSIBLE.


Ah yes - but how did the letter become public... spin, spin, spin. Who is interested in - ahem - 'derailing' the project - yes the car lobby. Do not underestimate the power of PR


The car park on the liffey idea first materialsed in the 1930s and was to run between O'Connell and Gratten Bridges.

The only people who have made a mess of Luas are the govenrment - through their procrastination and general arsing about with the plan we could have had an integrated system up and running 6 years ago. They probably would have started 3 or 4 new lines of it by now. What this country needs is an infrastructure ministry and someone who will take full responsibility for a project. Not the fall guys in the RPA
Rory W
Old Master
 
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2000 12:00 am
Location: Drogheda & Blackrock

Postby Papworth » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:28 pm

Spot on Rory, of course it's the goverment's (FFs) fault that's where the book stops. Remember those LUAS trams sitting on concrete blocks outside the Dail many years ago !!............. coming in 2003 then after that every 10 mins !!
Papworth
Member
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Postby ewanduffy » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:37 pm

Originally posted by Papworth
Spot on Rory, of course it's the goverment's (FFs) fault that's where the book stops. Remember those LUAS trams sitting on concrete blocks outside the Dail many years ago !!............. coming in 2003 then after that every 10 mins !!


I remember it well. I went up to take photos in the rain with my boss and he held his umbrella over me while I did so. The days of the Celtic Tiger when bosses did that to retain staff!

http://members.lycos.co.uk/irishrailways/Trams.htm
ewanduffy
Member
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 2:00 pm
Location: Celbridge

Next

Return to Ireland



cron