Convention centre

Re: Convention centre

Postby Peter Fitz » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:58 pm

Up to date construction pics are on the ccd website -

http://www.theccd.ie

Some internal 'fly through' stuff visible on the animated vid, they really pulled out all the stops for that one !!!
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Re: Convention centre

Postby fergalr » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:58 pm

A lot of Dublin Tourism stock footage used several times in the same video... Great looking place though, Dublin - it seems!!!!
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Re: Convention centre

Postby GrahamH » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:18 pm

"Designed to meet the highest standards of environmental sustainability"

A paradox surely?
Still good to hear.

"Our venue is being constructed with concrete that has a zero carbon footprint. Long-term operational requirements have also been prioritised, including energy usage and waste management."

Have a picture of the cores going up, but it's at home. Quite enormous they are.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:45 pm

Special thanks to U2 for permission to use 'Beautiful Day' as the film soundtrack.

I scratch your back...
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Re: Convention centre

Postby seanny » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:19 pm

The concrete is all designed specifically to be "green".If you look up the company Ecocem, they are involved, It's carbon neutral concrete and it's their product.Just for anyone that's interested.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby igy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:54 am

Only really noticed the other day how huge this is!
I didn't really notice the cores going up (or rather, i did, but they didn't elicit much of a response), but now that they're building the frame between then it's starting to get really bulky


as a side note, what are they doing just north of the bridges on the royal canal?
They've dammed up the canal, dug deeper than its previous base, and have dug a big pit about twice the width of the canal, too.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby PTB » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:26 pm

I'm not entirely sure where this hole is but I'd reckon its the Future systems Luas bridge near the spencer dock buildings
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Re: Convention centre

Postby seanny » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:21 pm

There are 2 pits in the canal, the one right beside the north quays bridge is going to be a new lock on the canal. Further up, the canal is being widened to it's original width..the original canal wall is buried there, and has been exposed from the sheriff st bridge down towards the liffey. The Luas bridge will be in the middle, but the widening of the canal is just restoring it to it's original width, it will be part of the development. The dam at the sheriff st end is to allow the work to go ahead,obviously.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby GrahamH » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:20 pm

Aha - thanks for that seanny.

Well there she is, glowering across the river.

Image

Reminds me of the contraption that hosts the Stena HSS for some reason...
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Re: Convention centre

Postby GregF » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:51 pm

The NCC is really starting to take shape now. It will really look cool when finished; well compared to all the surrounding dross. They're putting the glass into the drum at the mo. This will be a great modern landmark sitting beside Calatrava's bridge.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby spoil_sport » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:10 pm

It is the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Ever.
"really cool".......?????????????
????????????????????????
???????????????????????????????
No, still don't see it................
"landmark", try lowpoint in the battle between big business and big names against real architecture and intelligent urban design.
I'd love to be more elequent and articulate an argument about it but I afraid the term F-UGLY-AS-MY-BIG-HAIRY-ARSE is the only one that comes to mind.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby Starch » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:31 pm

second that
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Re: Convention centre

Postby cgcsb » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:42 pm

Are you serious? the NCC is one of the most interesting buildings in Dublin in a long time
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Re: Convention centre

Postby spoil_sport » Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:37 pm

Let's say for the sake of argument that the coca-cola 500ml contour botle is a "good" piece of architecture, and the pepsi-cola 500ml bottle is a "bad" piece of architecture (not that I find either one particularly attractive or offencive, but bear with me) the coca-cola bottle is curvatious and elegant, the pepsi is dumb, akward and unrefined, so to boost sales pepsi give 50% extra free (you know the ones I'm talking about) so now the bottle is dumb, akward, unrefined, bulbus and fat. The NCC is like the pepsi bottle, its ugly, but no one would notice as much if it wasn't so monsterously big. It's like someone in the office blew everything up 200% on the photocopier and no one picked up on it before it went to site.
I'm afraid I can't take anyone seriously who defends this project. It is genuninely offencive e to suggent that this.... thing as any architectural merit.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby gunter » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:24 pm

spoil_sport wrote:I'm afraid I can't take anyone seriously who defends this project. It is genuninely offencive to suggent that this.... thing as any architectural merit.


The NCC may not appeal to you, I'm not too crazy about it myself, but to suggest that it has no architectural merit is not a tenable position, IMO.

As far as I can tell, the NCC is an exercise in civic monumentalism that attempts to connect with a very serious, two thousand year old, tradition. The juxtaposition of the square and the drum is a recurring theme in monumental architecture from the Pantheon through Palladio, the Renaissance, our own Four Courts, and into the 20th century with Gunnar Asplund's Stockholm Library.

Image Image Image Image

If that attempt to connect with this tradition, and add a contemporary monument to the list, were to work, the NCC would be a very significant building indeed. If it doesn't come off, in my opinion, it was still worth trying.

Whatever else you can say about it, the NCC appears to be an original work (as far as I Know), which straight away, sets it apart from the generic derivitive stuff that predominates everywhere else in the city.

Like a lot of people, I have my doubts about the tilted drum, for a start and assuming that there is a compelling reason that it had to be tilted, I think it's tilted a few degrees too far. I also think the glass drum's connection with a curved entrance lobby is going to weaken the clarity of the two shapes. Another thing that I don't know is, how they're proposing to stop the glare of the sun beating in, assuming the rain clouds ever part, and lastly, I don't like the add-on bits on the roof that seem to change shape with every new render. These and the fact that building always looks like the profile of a hunkered down gorilla to me are my only real concerns.

On balance, notwithstanding the reservations noted above, I think I would be prepared to place a small wager, (possibly another bar of virtual chocolate), that this one may stand the test of time, though how I'm goin' to live long enough to collect my winnings, I haven't worked out.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby ake » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:56 pm

Viewed from down the river a bit it looks quite good. well maybe that's bit strong of a word. it's something anyway.

[ATTACH]8182[/ATTACH]

but from straight on the facade is atrociously boring, for the size of it

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the corners specifically
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Re: Convention centre

Postby jimg » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:26 am

It's one of the few distinctive buildings that have appeared in Dublin in the last 10 or 20 years. It has the potential to achieve some sort of iconic status. Maybe that's overstating it but I'd be happy to see anything displace the false skyscraper cluster behind George's Quay as a symbol of modern Dublin.

Modern convention centres are always going to be somewhat bulky; this design doesn't attempt to hide the bulk - function before form - but distracts you from it with the intersecting cylinder. It is striking and the blandness of the north docks needs more striking modern buildings. I guess I like it - certainly relatively to the neighbouring modern buildings.

To say that it's "the ugliest building ever seen. EVER" must be .. like .. the supidist .. like.. thing ever like written... EVER.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby reddy » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:59 am

I actually am beginning to like the look of it. It certainly has presence on the quays.

As part of a string of significant monumental buildings along the quays it will work quite well. Monumentality is a difficult thing to achieve in a modern idiom and I think this has an almost brutalist, powerful presence which will achieve that. Kevin Roche, while his buildings generally aren't to my taste, certainly knows his stuff and like Gunter pointed out above, this building has its roots based in a long tradition of monumental civic building.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby kefu » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:56 am

It's a magnificent modern reinterpretation of the Four Courts and was always intended as so. How anybody can suggest this is the ugliest building in Dublin simply beggars belief.
I've no idea what the finished product will be like but certainly the NCC will be the Central Bank of this era, a genuinely interesting building, one of the best built in the boom years.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby spoil_sport » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:03 am

What is wrong with you people?
I find it utterly beyond comprehension that anyone who has studied architecture or has any sense of good taste could defend this building.
I give up.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
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Re: Convention centre

Postby notjim » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:17 am

spoil_sport: you are wrong to give up without actually having explained what is wrong with this building or how it fails relative to its function; a convention center built as part of a docklands redevelopment project. Which similar buildings do you think it fails relative too and how, would a different type of convention center building embody as compelling a narrative?

I enjoy the ncc for the reasons gunter and so on have outlined above, it is intellectual without being whimsical; I think it is honest and impressive without, perhaps, being beautiful, I do think it is unusually good for a convention center and unusually good for a building on the north quay.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby spoil_sport » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:49 am

I'm tired of this "it's better than what's there" argument, what is arround it is pretty ugly, granted, but that's like comparing it to the ugly person who hangs out with uglier pople to make themselves look good. While I cannot think of a good convention centre off the top of my head but it is essentially a place of gathering, like an auditorium, or a stadium, and I'm sure we can muster up a few god examples of those. Again I don't buy the it's beter than other version of its type argument, that dosen't qualify it as good.
"how it fails relative to its function"
Please do not insult yourself or me by suggesting that it is enough that it fulfills its function, I thought architectural discourse had moved past that.
OK I'll conceed gunter his argument above, he's obviously done his research, but please look at the examples gunter has given, and then look at our NCC, it is the runt of the litter, the reject, the poorest example of that type of thing. OK, maybe it was worth trying, if only to show that it dosen't work. But it should have stayed on the model shelf in the office never to be let out. The proportions are wrong, the scale (of the drum) is wrong. Gunter there is no point saying "if" it works, have you been down there latley, I think there is enough of it there to make a judgment now.
I have already made the argument about scale in its wider "context".
I never disputed that it was "iconic", or "striking" or "monumental" or even "interesting" but it can be all these things and that still dosen't make it good.
My point is that it is bad architecture and that it is in the midst of worse architecture dosen't or shouldn't make that OK, especially when it is so fucking big.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby GregF » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:30 pm

I always supported the building of Roche's design. I thought it was rather striking the way the glass atrium drum intersects the block, sitting on the riverfront.Gunter sums it up very well, and ye can see the comparison in the photos. I think Roche's building, Calatrava's second proposed bridge and the new Lansdowne Road Stadium will be something architecturally substantial that we got out of the last years of the Celtic Tiger, given too that we are very conservative here in Ireland when it comes to architecture and the visual arts.

BTW Spoilsport, perhaps you could name me some good architecture that you like, in Dublin , Ireland or the rest of the world?
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Re: Convention centre

Postby reddy » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:41 pm

I don't think anyone is defending it solely on the basis that its better than whats there.

The comparison to the central bank is really good actually. While it goes against any instincts I might have re demolition of existing fabric, maintaining scale and grain and issues re height and wind and public space, I find the central bank to be a really enigmatic presence in the city.

It has a very powerful, muscular presence, befitting an institute of national importance and I keep finding amazing views to the bank from so many locations in the city. Its a real landmark in an older sense of the concept - a strong, formidable building, full of personality. Not quite beautiful but a compelling building nonetheless.

The NCC has the potential to have the same weighty presence on the Quays. I reserve my judgment until completion but right now I'm quite excited by the prospect.
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Re: Convention centre

Postby spoil_sport » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:14 pm

GregF
Look, I'll say it again, not disagreeing with you, it is striking, but a bad smell can also be "striking".
I'm not sure I understand your motivation to ask me to name what I consider good architecture. I don't think it's relevant, and is a futile exercise. I hope your not asking me defing "good" and I hope it is not because you think the NCC is the best thing in the world ever, and your challenging me to name something better?
I was waiting for someone to mention the bridge. I think I've got myself in enough trouble so far so I'll leave it go. For what it's worth, I kinda like the new bridge in Venice, at least from the pictures, havn't seen it in the flesh yet. The form and structure look quiet elegant, but then the right camera angle can make most things look good, not sure about the glass steps, but anyway...
I think the central bank is great as it happens. But I don't see the comparrison, the central bank works because it is so big and contrasts so sharply with the historic settings around it, like the way black and white work well together, the NCC, and its context are like various shades of grey brown, if we're making that comparrison, then in some ways the NCC is not big enough, and it may also be worth mentioning Liberty Hall in this context.
"I don't think anyone is defending it solely on the basis that its better than whats there."
I disagree, and as I said, I don't think it has any other merits.
I really do give up this time
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