Look at de state of Cork, like!

Postby lexington » Sun May 30, 2004 3:18 pm

No - it was Derek Tynan. See his website http://www.dtarch.com

I'm sorry but is it just me, or doesn't Derek Tynan seem to aim for architectural beauty too often. In Cork, The Gate and the new Victoria Hall Student Complex at Victoria Cross (developed by Paul Montgomery and Edmund Kenneally) are proofs of this.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Sun May 30, 2004 3:56 pm

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Postby lexington » Mon May 31, 2004 12:57 pm

Some interesting pics of current Cork developments incl. 21 Lavitts Quay (the O'Callaghan Properties office development), No.5 and No.6 Lapps Quay (office development by O'Flynn Construction)

More soon!
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Postby lexington » Mon May 31, 2004 12:59 pm

Sorry forgot 21 Lavitts Quay pic, here it is!
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Postby lexington » Mon May 31, 2004 8:07 pm

http://www.murrayolaoire.com

Check out articles on Water Street development.

And any opinions on posted pictures above?
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Academy Street Deal Done and Dusted

Postby lexington » Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:59 pm

Well it seems my earlier reports have borne fruit and Owen O'Callaghan has indeed been the successful bidder for the Irish Examiner's Academy Street premises. Along with the Johnson and Perrot premises on Emmet Place, most of Faulkers Lane, and some of Bowling Green Street, O'Callaghan Properties now own 90% of this 1.5 acre block.

Thomas Crosbie Holdings, owners of the Irish Examiner, Sunday Business Post, Evening Echo and 14 other titles - bagged 30 million euros for the sale and - the deal clincher - a 3.5 acre site at O'Callaghan's Mahon Point complex in the suburbs alongside the South Ring Motorway.

The 3.5 acre site will be leased to Webprint Concepts, a start-up printing company to which the Thomas Crosbie Holdings will outsource its printing.

It is the Irish Examiner's intention to relocate its non-printing operations (ie. editorial etc) from its Academy Street premises in 2006 to a newly built office building on a site it owns on Lavitts Quay, right next to O'Callaghan's new 21 Lavitts Quay office building.

O'Callaghan has proposed a new 6-storey retail and apartment development for the Academy Street/Emmet Place/Faulkner's Lane area - with basement, ground, 1st, 2nd and 3rd floors dedicated to retail operations and 4th, 5th and 6th = apartments. (shudder!)

Other bids I hear from good sources had been made by Howard Holdings, a company owned by Treasury Holdings, Lagan Developments and a consortium involving Cumor Construction, McCarthy Developments (indirectly), Brian McCarthy Construction and possibly P. Elliot Construction.

O'Flynn Construction are focusing on their Ballincollig Town Centre Development and new retail/residential complex at Eglinton Street, Cork city centre.
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Cork - New Developments

Postby lexington » Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:13 pm

Just when people thought things were gonna level off, in the past 3 weeks alone, major planning applications and development plans have been laid out for Cork - coming into effect or fruition over the next few months/years.

Some of these include the 500million euro Ballincollig Town Centre, the est. 60million euro Eglinton Street development, 12 million No.6 Lapps Quay (ALL O'Flynn Construction), 80 million docklands development at Water Street by Werdna (incl. 19-storey residential tower - designed by MOLA), new Howard Holdings Tech and Business Centre on Alfred Quay, 150million euro retail/apartment complex on Academy Street, New Cork School of Music (60million), 35million Rockfell Investments venture on Cornmarket Street and MANY MANY more to boot!

That's not incl. the plans for the Docklands - for which a new 25million euro tilting bridge is proposed at Water Street to Kennedy Quay and a new 20-storey hotel, 3,000 seat convention centre and offices (rumoured to be aimed 2 large German banks) on Kennedy Quay.

What are your feelings on such? And please feel free to contribute any new but genuinely reliable information on such new developments.
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Postby FIN » Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:12 pm

sounds good for cork. bout time
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Postby Irishtown » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:01 pm

I'm happy for Cork.

I did not know of this "plans for the Docklands - for which a new 25million euro tilting bridge is proposed at Water Street to Kennedy Quay and a new 20-storey hotel, 3,000 seat convention centre and offices (rumoured to be aimed 2 large German banks) on Kennedy Quay."

Any pictures or additional information? Thanks mate.
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Postby Irishtown » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:28 pm

Originally posted by lexington

And any opinions on posted pictures above?


lexington- thanks for posting those. Do you have details on the two projects?
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Postby lexington » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:24 am

Will try and get some pics of the Water Street Bridge for ya, its a development on behalf of Cork City Council.

The Hotel and Convention centre were proposed by an as yet undisclosed development group but there may be a spanner in the workers at the announcement of O'Callaghan Properties to develop their previously proposed convention centre at Mahon.
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Postby lexington » Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:54 pm

Originally posted by Irishtown


lexington- thanks for posting those. Do you have details on the two projects?


Yeah - 21 Lavitts Quay was designed by Patrick Cashman and Associates, and will house the new headquarters of O'Callaghan properties on the top floors. The remaining elements of the building include offices on floors 1, 2 and 3, ground floor reception and retail area plus restaurant. In addition there are 44 apartments and private multi-storey car park at the rear (access via Lavitts Quay). It is due for completion by end of the summer/early autumn. Looking at it from the quays, already it looks very impressive. It's the only O'Callaghan property that I can say has a genuinely attractive and innovative design. More like these O'Callaghan!

No. 5 and No.6 Lapps Quay has been designed by Coughlan de Keyser Architects (Cork) and developed by O'Flynn Construction. No.5 was a renovation of the old (gruesome) Eircom Building. The entire office building has been sold in floors (1 -> 5) already. Construction on the striking second phase, No.6 is due to begin by the end of the summer and will be complete by Autumn 2005. It will make a fine addition to Lapps Quay (already undergoing a huge development in the form of the City Quarter project). No.6 will consist of further offices over 5 floors and sell and approx. 1.6 million euros each.
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Postby lexington » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:25 pm

Further info on that conference centre, hotel Dockland proposal - the proposal is actually for Horgan's Quay (adjacent to Water Street) and the developers are Manor Park Homes, CIE and Treasury Holdings.

Negotiations are still on-going but the plan will incl. a 5000-seat convention centre (not a 3,000 seat), towers between 20 to 25 storeys, a new commercial quarter and new homes. (this is quoted in today's (3rd June 2004) Commercial Property section of the Irish Examiner)

Also, as reported in the Evening Echo today, the southern docks will be home to a new Sports Arena capable of hosting international events (incl. International Rugby matches), with tracks, swimming and other such facilities. This is part of the Cork Development Draft 2004 - 2009 so its nothing concrete at still up in the sky - interesting though.
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Postby Irishtown » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:58 pm

Wow, Cork could be alot different in the coming years.
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Postby lexington » Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:35 pm

Work on the Cork Bus Station has fiiiiiiiiiiinally begun. Although the revised plans are more of a novelty refurbishment for Cork 2005, they're still a helluva lot better than the derelict scrub that currently exists.

Also, after the closure of 2 nightclubs in the past 6 months in Cork - for apartment developments - City Properties has announced its plans for a new club over the Classic Bar on South Main Street, where part of the Queen's Old Castle (now Virgin Megastore and Argos) used to exist. Planning permission has just been sought.

Also, Werdna Ltd. have officially applied for planning permission for their Water Street development (fingers crossed!).
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Postby Irishtown » Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:58 am

Originally posted by lexington
Also, Werdna Ltd. have officially applied for planning permission for their Water Street development (fingers crossed!).


Oooh! So exciting. When shall a decision be reached?
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Postby d_d_dallas » Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:20 pm

Water st is a definite sign that all the "Cork is on the up" talk is finally coming to something. A bit of ambition killed noone either, and I'm glad the developers are trying to put this forward rather than resigning to the flat and safe densitites (IFSC cough).
That said I wish the design wasn't so damn homogenous - so much river front (i.e. Corks strong point) wasted on the same block repeated five times. sigh. Other comment bothers me: 66m same as County Hall.... to reflect as a gateway from other side of city. Is 66m going to become Corks version of the Dublin 60m???

Image

Image

That said I was there for first time in ages during the long weekend and couldn't believe the amount of activity going on down there. Go Cork!
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Postby d_d_dallas » Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:35 pm

Decision? Well when it gets planning permission and An Taisce have a child and the usual appeal wranglings happen and some awful watered down proposal gets through - some disaster of compromise, we'll all be sorry that we even were aware of what could have been.

Interestingly enough under the development plan 2004-2009, all "major developments" must submit a "design statement" with the application. Hopefully this will spur developers/architects on to think a little harder about the overall design aswell as the finer and more subtle design elements of proposals.
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Postby lexington » Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:00 pm

The Decision Date for Water Street is due on the 25/07/2004 but God knows it'll probably be later than that knowing our lightning fast planning authorities. I'm expecting a request for Further Info and if and hopefully it does get FULL (not watered down) planning permission, I'm sure An Taisce and probably a few residents will run screaming to An Bord Pleanala. UGH!

But ya never know, with John Hornibrook current development on Camden Quay, even though the Senior Planner and a few businesses nearby complained, Joe Gavin - the City Manager, stood in and pushed the project through - so miracles do happen!
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Postby lexington » Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:08 pm

Cool images d_d_dallas! Where'd ya get them? Looking at them, homogeneous or not, ya can't help getting excited. Plus, if I can, I'm gonna try and get my hands on a few JPEGs of future docklands projects I've viewed (but still haven't been formally announced - incl. Eglinton Street and Horgan's Quay).

Cork is buzzing lately, it's really encouraging to see.
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Postby d_d_dallas » Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:15 pm

Pictures would be fab if you could get them. If Horgan's Qy ever gets a move on that is...

It's exciting alright - compared to what's there at present. However if two separate submissions are made by An T for that Mannix Culhane building on Washington St - imagine what this will attract.

The ones above are from Murray O'Laoire's own site.

http://www.murrayolaoire.com
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Postby lexington » Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:07 am

Yeah I saw the Planning Report, ugh - it's so frustrating. The Mannix Culhane building is designed by Coveney & Assoc of Monkstown, Cork and has been designed in-line with the general style of the Washington Street area (with apparently a 'modern twist' - make of that what you will!) 4 submissions have already been made against the project - plus Further Info has been requested by Cork City Council. Fingers crossed!

Also, Howard Holdings have made further steps on the Business Centre proposals adjacent to City Hall, while Cork City Council have made notices for their planned new Civic Building across the street, south of Angelesea Street Garda Station.

O'Flynn Construction are expected to make an announcement regarding their Eglinton Street site within the next few weeks.

(Come on Water Street!!!)
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Postby bunch » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:16 am

In relation to the Water St. Development Proposal - I am wondering whether An Taisce will object or not, I have a feeling (and I could be very wrong) that An Taisce will not object, although I am sure that neighbouring residents probably will. However, I do not expect or sense any discernible 'ourage' nor should there be.

If An Taisce object, on what grounds would this objection be? Building Height ? - The Cork High Buildings Study identified this location as a candidate for high buildings, as did the Cork Docklands Development Strategy and the current Cork City Development Plan. It is a brownfield site on the waterfront, facing south over the city at a gateway location in terms of vehicular and maritime traffic. A high building is essential, appropriate and sustainable. If it were a four storey building, would An taisce object on the basis of it being too low, contrary to City planning Policy and govt guidelines on density and sustainable development?

In terms of design, it, to me, seems quite attractive, although i agree that it can appear monotonous. However, as is often the case in docklands projects, the initial scheme often acts as a catalyst and compromises can be made - eg dublin docklands, canary, bristol. I really hope that CCC give it support because it will kickstart the north docks and the city cannot afford to wait for CIE or Treasury to move on Horgan's Quay.

I hope also that CCC do not take a number of floors off just to appease the inevitable gombeen local slopitician who is guaranteed to get involved and create pathetic references to Ballymun, the glen etc. Taking four or six floors off this will ruin the opportunity to set the tone for Corks new urban quarter, will institutionalise a conservative approach to design/height/architecture and would be irresponsible and, i believe, contrary to proper planning and sustainable development Cork should learn the lessons from the early approach to dublin docklands and see a project like this as a strategic opportunity to deliver positive developemtn for the entire city

Also, I do not think the site includes or adjoins a protected structure, will not compromise neighbouring dwellings sun/day light. If An Taisce object, on what grounds will this be? By the way if they do object on sound planning grounds (although i cannot anticipate these), leave them, they are entitled, lets have no abuse.
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Postby PVC King » Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:48 am

Originally posted by bunch
If it were a four storey building, would An taisce object on the basis of it being too low, contrary to City planning Policy and govt guidelines on density and sustainable development?


No but no developer would ever for apply for permission for less than is attainable.

Originally posted by bunch
I hope also that CCC do not take a number of floors off just to appease the inevitable gombeen local slopitician who is guaranteed to get involved and create pathetic references to Ballymun, the glen etc.


My first encounter with Royston Vessy Brady ( Brother of Fulton Brady) was at the Smithfield planning enquiry, his contribution was welcomed by no-one but himself.

Originally posted by bunch
Taking four or six floors off this will ruin the opportunity to set the tone for Corks new urban quarter, will institutionalise a conservative approach to


One positive development in recent times has been the way that decisions are now delivered. Before a developer who wanted an eight storey building would need to apply for 14 story building, the Council would offer 10 and ABP would give them 8.

The architects would design a 14 storey building which not only lost 6 floors but also all architectural quality in transition. Now you get a simple yes or no.
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Postby lexington » Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:39 pm

Cleary Doyle Building and Civil Engineering Contractors have won the bid for contract of Cork City Council's 32million euro extension of City Hall. The new building is designed by ABK Architects.

Cleary Doyle are responsible for the 12million Euro new Cork VEC and 35million Altana Pharma plant in Cork also.

Also CDA Assoc announced that O'Flynn Construction would begin starting construction of No.6 Lapps Quay as of this week.
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