Carroll plans huge Dublin pub project

Carroll plans huge Dublin pub project

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed May 14, 2003 8:54 am

Carroll plans huge Dublin pub project

11/05/03 00:00


By Neil Callanan

Developer Liam Carroll is planning to build a major pub on Capel Street in Dublin.


If approved, the existing buildings on the site at Numbers 21-24 will be demolished, and a five-storey over basement public house will be constructed on the site.

The directors of Oze Developments are Carroll, David Torpey and John Pope. The planning application makes provision for a 4,302 square metre public house.

If the figure is correct, this would make it the largest pub in the country. The site also has frontage onto Upper Abbey Street and Jervis Lane.

The Capel Street area is witnessing a surge in the number of licensed premises.
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Postby phil » Wed May 14, 2003 9:23 am

I thought that the age of the "Super-pub" was gone. This must signify the dawn of the age of the "Hyper-pub"!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby d_d_dallas » Wed May 14, 2003 11:21 am

Oh goodie - another venue where we can all enjoy the €5plus pint.

Carroll has gone somewhat "upmarket" these days (millenium tower, gasometer development, purchase of Dunloe Ewart...) compared to his slumlord days. Any ideas on what the proposed development will look like?
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Postby urbanisto » Wed May 14, 2003 12:59 pm

Who cares!!! NO NO NO!!!! Not another one. All the problems these premises have caused have been well documented here and elsewhere. Aren't 'they' just in the porcess of completeing a superpub in the old St Marys Abbey on Jervis Street? Aren't there a rake of pubs already on this street? There MUST be more to regeneration that pubs!
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Postby d_d_dallas » Wed May 14, 2003 2:25 pm

Of course!

But if it's going ahead I can't help but be curious! All I was trying to point out is that five years ago he would have ravaged the street with some cheapo dinky super pub - but now he'll - um... maybe not quite ravage as bad with a more taseful pub...
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Postby iuxta » Wed May 14, 2003 5:57 pm

Capel Street has only five pubs at the moment. Starting at the river, you have Nealon's and GUBU on the first junction and then the Boar's Head on the next, then Slatterys and the Four Seasons at the very top of the street, though technically, it may be on North Kins Street, i'm not sure exactly.

The site in question has a planning application lodged by O'Mahony Pike, if its the site i'm thinking of. So who knows, maybe we could get a pretty good job on this one.
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Postby Rory W » Thu May 15, 2003 4:44 pm

And don't forget the old Forsyth & Forsyth furniture shop which is currently going through the planning process for a JD Weatherspoons pub - hooray for warm beer - but at least it will be €2 a pint which cant be bad in counteracting the pub price inflation problem.
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Postby emf » Thu May 15, 2003 5:39 pm

Imagine the state of the streets around there after all that cheap warm beer has been consumed!!!!
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Postby d_d_dallas » Thu May 15, 2003 6:08 pm

Mmmm - cheap warm beer...

Well at least now Capel St will resemble most of the streets just south of it across the liffey!
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Postby Zap » Fri May 16, 2003 10:19 am

Lets face it - Henry St. could do with a few pubs to give it some life after 6pm.
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Postby d_d_dallas » Fri May 16, 2003 11:27 am

For a street so busy during the day, it does go really quiet really quickly in the evening.
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Postby urbanisto » Fri May 16, 2003 11:50 am

Maybe it needs to.... cleansing, deliveries, maintenance... these can all be done at night. There are plenty more streets in the city in need of an injection of 'life'...like neighbouring Abbey Street. No pubs needs on Henry Street!
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Postby Zap » Fri May 16, 2003 12:13 pm

There should be a few on Henry St. to give it life after 6pm. There is one pub on Moore St. but that closes in the early evening because there is just no business or people around after that time.

Cleansing, delivery and maintenance shoud all be done at night - but they are not. they are done in the morning. So at the moment there is a large and eerily quiet street off O'Connell St.

Nothing can be done with Abbey St. until all the Luas and whatever else is finished but yes, it should have life too.

With no major residential developments on Henry St. and Abbey St. (so no complaint about noise) they are perfect for dual purpose shopping by day/cafes/restaurants/drinking by night - it should improve the profile of the Northside too. I'm not talking about a huge number for certainly enough tostrech life all the way from O'Connell St. to Capel St.

Pubs give great life to areas and can be used to great effect - though small, more intimate pubs rather than super-barn soulless pubs.

As an aside, I'm looking forward to the Wetherspoons - finally the novel idea of price competition in the Dublin pub market within what will be a fairly decent bar (from my experiences of other Wetherspoons) - how clever.
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Postby urbanisto » Fri May 16, 2003 12:41 pm

I got charges €7.75 for a G&T the other night.... roll on Wetherspoons!
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Postby GrahamH » Fri May 16, 2003 12:48 pm

What! 7.75!
Were you in the Mint Bar or something?!
Or perhaps a light brunch in the Side Door!?
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Postby Harry » Fri May 16, 2003 1:24 pm

Isn't there a plan to cover Moore St. and (part of) Henry Street?

This could lead to different types of night-time activity.

1. Well managed pubs and restaurants that are allowed some external activity.

2. An unused covered set of streets, which would quickly become a problem area where people are afraid to enter.

Hmmm... A wonderful Bazaar type area to attract people all year round or an extension of the GPO Arcade.....?
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Postby d_d_dallas » Fri May 16, 2003 1:57 pm

... €7.75!!!
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Postby Rory W » Fri May 16, 2003 2:37 pm

I'd well believe it - I think one of the senators was calling for an enquiry into the price of drink after being charged €11.10 for a rum and coke in the Earl of Kildare (nee Powers) Hotel - their reason being "it's after 11pm". Amazing how these things are only noticed when somebody ventures outside the (subsidised) Dail bar.

Incidently €5.15 for an Erdinger in Ron Blacks - not even two pints for a tenner anymore!
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Postby Zap » Fri May 16, 2003 5:54 pm

Guinness won't be that impressed by Wetherspoons though - they are not planning to stock any Guinness products (meaning Guinness, Bud, Carlsberg etc etc.) due to their uncompetitive prices and will be sourcing a lot of the lagers, stouts and ales from England and the continent - so expect Stella and maybe a couple of Czech beers.

Although I can't say i like Wetherspoons as is - they really are what Dublin need.
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Postby Zap » Fri May 16, 2003 5:58 pm

I have heard about the plan to cover Moore st. but not in a while. It would eb great to have an all-weather al-fresco nightlife area in Dublin. It could do an incredible amount of good for that area.

But I think it would be essential that such an area have a nighttime aspect to it - whether than be a cinema, theatre, restaurant, cafe and pub - ideally all of the above between Moore St. and its side streets and lane, most of which are currently desolate both day and night.

It would introduce something new and could benefit Parnell St. - it can be lonely trek from Conways pub to UGC for a late night show at the moment even with that apartment block beside the Ilac.
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Postby pvdz » Sun May 18, 2003 7:51 pm

JC Wetherspoon; Stella and some Czech beers? More like Alec Gilroy, swirley carpets and blingiddy fruit machines along with Hearsay playing in the background and all this with the foul taste of warm wee! It doesnt bare thinking about.

Anyway if Michael Mc Dowell has his way we'll all be in bed by 11 with warm milk and cookies. Even President McAleese proved she can still speak by jumping on the conservative bandwagan and stating that 'too many young people make a connection between fun and alcohol', erm yea?

Also can we honestly expect Witherspoons to be cheeper. Not a hope they'll resist temptation to rip us off when everyone else is doing it, paisley carpets are expensive these days you know.
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Postby Zap » Mon May 19, 2003 10:10 am

Wetherspoons have made their name on decent prices and I'm just basing my expectations of them on my experiences of them in London and even on Whitehall just off Trafalgar Sq. the Wetherspoons is pretty decent priced in a town where prices can hit the roof.

I hate the English pub model with its gambing machines (in particular) but don't you think you're accepting a bit too much of the stereotype when it comes to warm beer - you don't get warm lager.

You take a lot of cheap shots - lets see if they are competitively priced - if so, they will be a first in Dublin.

I take your point about Mary McAleese and McDowell though - but I wouldn't give them much chance of rolling back the progress of opening hours (not do I hope they make progress either).
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Postby Michael Pat » Mon May 19, 2003 1:06 pm

Wetherspoons aren't as bad as that! I have been living in Glasgow for a while now, where they have opened 3 new Wetherspoons pubs recently, in the city centre. They are very stylishly finished, no swirly carpets in sight. Also, they have a policy of not playing any music, which I think is great - I'm not hoarse the next morning from having to shout to make myself heard. And the prices are great. I'm glad they're opening in Dublin, I might be able to afford a drink in town the next time I'm home...
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Postby d_d_dallas » Mon May 19, 2003 2:42 pm

Somehow I can't see cheap shots and drink deals going down well with the media or the authorities in this ever more hysterical environment.
I do welcome the chance to not spend more than a fiver on a pint though. I remember ordering two Erdingers in Tom Reads last summer and it was such a watershed moment - I handed over a tenner and got an expectant look for more coins! My how those days seem so much more affordable!!!
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Postby Rory W » Mon May 19, 2003 2:55 pm

Here is the weatherspoon website in their design section. To be fair they seem to see design and conservation as part of what they do so fair play to them. And yes - no music allowed, and I didn't see any of the fruit machines (I'm not sure if they are legal in pubs here anymore).

http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/pages/body01g.html

PS: I have heard it reported that the pint price for Ireland will be €2, so nothing wrong with that.
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